tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post1461864078981148656..comments2024-03-28T06:20:47.668-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: A Kindred SpiritJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19399263578839591452011-12-05T03:45:16.832-05:002011-12-05T03:45:16.832-05:00I don't know... I don't think the "co...I don't know... I don't think the "consumer" should have to put more effort into a work of art than did the original artist.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00801468265072232351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14587317461541950562011-12-04T23:44:17.937-05:002011-12-04T23:44:17.937-05:00"You’ll remember the interminable driving tha..."You’ll remember the interminable driving that opens the movie". It amazes me how many people confuse memorable with good. If what I remember about your movie is how painfully boring it was, then it was not a good movie.Prosfilaeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08567819936724569257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26471402646392034802011-12-04T09:12:00.655-05:002011-12-04T09:12:00.655-05:00No, there's "contrarian," and then t...No, there's "contrarian," and then there's "willfully perverse." I've seen Manos several times over the last 10 years, and I can assure you that there's nothing there to reclaim from popular opinion. And it's not even a movie that's been overlooked--through MST3K, literally millions of people have seen this turkey, over and over again. Meanwhile, I'm sure that there are dozens of genre gems languishing in cold storage or simply being ignored even though they're available through the Warner Archives, etc. Manos has had its day, and this time and money could be much better spent.Mighty Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16090715490338292022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21491207689530659062011-12-04T07:49:42.089-05:002011-12-04T07:49:42.089-05:00My point was simply that I think there's somet...<i>My point was simply that I think there's something laudable in the idea of going back to something that "everyone knows" is execrable and trying to see if that reputation is wholly deserved or if it might be exaggerated. </i><br /><br />I think you should have chosen a better example then. I agree with this sentiment, but perhaps if you had chosen the picture Ishtar (which has a bad rep and flopped at the box office, but which people like Tarantino and Scorsese have enjoyed and the one time Gary Larson ever made an apology for his cartoon (after actually seeing the picture years later).JRThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06028363896728357260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77919802932855015582011-12-03T22:04:43.626-05:002011-12-03T22:04:43.626-05:00Thanks, again, James for your thoughtful post abou...Thanks, again, James for your thoughtful post about a topic a bit outside our rpg tunnle vision.Chris Creelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15993487911122629839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89301379243415656712011-12-03T19:47:57.312-05:002011-12-03T19:47:57.312-05:00I'll be looking forward to Ben's work. Ye...I'll be looking forward to Ben's work. Yes <i>Manos</i> is a stinker but James makes a good point: it's worth looking at again to see if the rep is (wholly) deserved.<br /><br />Rock on Ben. The Master approves!<br /><br /><b>-SJ</b>Smokestack Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06253933872608999580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-70261410022495197572011-12-03T19:35:59.169-05:002011-12-03T19:35:59.169-05:00I can see I didn't make my point very clearly ...I can see I didn't make my point very clearly in this post, so let me try again. I'm not trying to argue that <i>Manos</i> is necessarily a good film, let alone a great one. My point was simply that I think there's something laudable in the idea of going back to something that "everyone knows" is execrable and trying to see if that reputation is wholly deserved or if it might be exaggerated. <br /><br />I mean, I know plenty of gamers, some of whom ought to know better, who nevertheless insist that the LBBs are bad and unplayable. Had I simply taken them at their word, I might well hold the same opinion. But I went back and read -- and played -- the game and found the LBBs not only playable but enjoyably so. Now, not every old game (or movie) is going to turn out to better than its reputation, but isn't it worth trying to find out?James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39293519892609727462011-12-03T17:55:21.993-05:002011-12-03T17:55:21.993-05:00Yeah, sorry - I'm with the majority here. The...Yeah, sorry - I'm with the majority here. There are a number of very low-budget horror films from the same era that have something to recommend them, even if they're not truly good films (and there are a handful that actually are truly good films). Doug's comment is astute. And check out "Pather Panchali" sometime, which was also made by a cast and crew of complete amateurs. I'm all for DIY, "Manos", without the robots, isn't even guilty pleasure territory. It compares more to SPAWN OF FASHAN or something than to any version of D&D.aycornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08098064529676071855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81076849673308231462011-12-03T16:35:00.219-05:002011-12-03T16:35:00.219-05:00I don't think Manos is the old-school analogy ...I don't think Manos is the old-school analogy you're looking for. It was the product of a man who made a cynical bet that he could make a horror movie on the cheap, despite having no experience in film. He managed to get some naive investors to fork over money he was reasonably sure they would never recoup. He didn't pay the actors but promised them "a share of the profits" and that mistakes would be fixed "in post-production." Despicable, exploitative hackery.<br /><br />Jean Cocteau made "La Belle et La Bete" in 1945. You could barely get clean bedsheets or a can of paint in postwar France, let alone usable film stock. Cocteau was tortured by a debilitating illness through most of the production. But somehow he made a great fantasy film, and was able to pay the cast and crew a fair wage doing it. Its sense of wonder has never been bested.Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871235554044658552noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4924512382139444342011-12-03T16:00:32.311-05:002011-12-03T16:00:32.311-05:00Anyway, the big difference is that underneath its ...Anyway, the big difference is that underneath its rough edges and poor editing and IP violations, OD&D is a functional, playable and enjoyable game. Underneath Manos' terrible film quality, scratched stock,and awful special effects, you'll find a truly bad film and all the restoration in the world won't ever change that fact.TyBannermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13241483332119936529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21153506740096983712011-12-03T15:54:11.351-05:002011-12-03T15:54:11.351-05:00OD&D is the Manos the Hands of Fate of the RPG...OD&D is the Manos the Hands of Fate of the RPG world? Hmmm... I don't think that analogy is going to win you any converts.TyBannermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13241483332119936529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22844714034065365202011-12-03T14:48:01.330-05:002011-12-03T14:48:01.330-05:00In the late 90's I had a GF who was a huge MST...In the late 90's I had a GF who was a huge MST3K fan, and she had actually gone back east for the oficially con a few times (I got the impression she was a bit of a groupie, cause she loved the creators of the show with a passion). She had video of the "Parade of Torgos" which was 30 dudes (and some girls) done up as Torgo and staggering across the con to the Torgo theme blasting. I laughed so hard I thought I was going to sroke out!<br /><br />Its a creepy film, but not really good in any way like Night of the Living Dead was. Both cheapie productions, but night and day in quality script and acting IMO. The first 5 minutes of Manos was a bad sign of what was to come. For sure very improved by the bots and the stoner goofing on it.Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47881496561686866142011-12-03T14:27:35.848-05:002011-12-03T14:27:35.848-05:00I agree with Coldstream, Manos really does suck. I...I agree with Coldstream, Manos really does suck. I've seen it at least five times, and can find no redeeming attributes beyond pissing off your friends after tricking them into watching it. Seriously, it's that bad. It's not like D&D, which was lousy but had a lot of insanely great ideas; Manos is a mess, pure tripe, a pastiche of various horror cliches wrapped up in terrible acting and an even worse plot. There's nothing original, which is probably it's worst offense. Ed Wood is frequently cited as the worst film maker ever, but you can tell he had an actual vision, clouded by incompetency. Manos was created by incompetent hacks whose vision was essentially replicating crappy 50s horror films.Bradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06596247660364673313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-44067762267997863132011-12-03T13:42:57.668-05:002011-12-03T13:42:57.668-05:00I'm pretty sure it's just a bad movie. Yo...I'm pretty sure it's just a bad movie. You could present it in glorious HD-3D CinemaScope and it would still be pretty lousy. Just because something is homebrewed and apparently sincere, doesn't make it good. <br /><br />Saying that outside of the grimy patina, awful dubbing, poor editing and general ineptness of the plot there's a good movie there is like saying outside of the nonsensical setting, schizophrenic art, unreadable layout, impossible rules and general incompetence, 'World of Synnibar' is a good RPG.<br /><br />Without those things, what else is there?Coldstreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16140235342917611032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69452166849323096022011-12-03T13:15:10.344-05:002011-12-03T13:15:10.344-05:00Indy horror history - it can be downloaded at Arch...Indy horror history - it can be downloaded at <a href="http://www.archive.org/details/manos_the_hands_of_fate" rel="nofollow">Archive.org</a>scottszhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10327316054801308727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31351447333388805392011-12-03T13:09:33.920-05:002011-12-03T13:09:33.920-05:00I had not heard any of this, what a fantastic proj...I had not heard any of this, what a fantastic project. I think you're right on with the comparison. As much a fan of MST3K as I am, I also love a lot of those movies un-MSTied, and never thought I'd be able to see this without. Thanks for posting this.Robert Saint Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16063044279947754807noreply@blogger.com