tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post1716812868535748917..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: More DwarvesJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger79125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15733917145488395482011-07-18T11:30:37.323-04:002011-07-18T11:30:37.323-04:00That's not really a fair standard since nothin...<i>That's not really a fair standard since nothing compares to The Empire Strikes Back when it comes to a duel between a hero and a villain.</i><br /><br />The scene in 'The Empire Strikes Back' which I refer to was filmed with a big fan or two, and some fellows from Lucas' staff throwing stuff at Mark Hamill from out field. It practically belongs to Prehistory! With the technology available today, it shouldn't be a big deal to make it look better, not worse.<br /><br />As a movie lover 'Star Wars a New Hope', or simply 'Star Wars', is the standard of fact to which I compare everything else. (I'd rather don't get into 'Indiana Jones' because it would take us miles away from here.) Can Sauron or his black riders hold a candle to Darth Vader? Frodo to Luke? Gandalf to Ben? Aragorn to Han Solo? Sam to R2D2? Saruman to Tarkin? "Everything I know, I learnt from Star Wars" indeed.<br /> <br />Every time I pay for watching a new movie I expect it to be as good or better than the last one I saw. Otherwise, I'd be saving my money. <br /><br />A wizards brawl would look like one wizard standing in front of the other. Wind blows, torches flicker, beards and robes flutter. Cut to each wizard's eyes, Sergio Leone style. Music in crescendo. Both wizards are engulfed in a wirlwind of rubbish and dust, but they don't move. Windows break (windows?! whatever, we really need cristal thingies to be shattered at this stage!). Another Sergio Leone cut: Saruman smiles confidently, Gandalf's forehead sweats. Wizards don't give up an inch. More crescendo. Floor and ceiling tremble, oh my! Gandalf looses feet and falls on his back. His head knocks the wall behind. Music stops on a sudden. Zoom into Gandalf's face: he's knock out, his nose and ears bleeding.<br /><br />To beat this dead horse deader than dead: I'll waste some bandwith into repeating what I posted previously, just in case I missed something important. <br /><br />[irony] Wouldn't be original if Gandalf and Saruman ride on a broomstick and start throwing quidditch balls to each other while flying around Orthanc? OK, it has been done elsewhere, but it's still more unexpected that yet another boring fireball battle, isn't it? G & S are incarnated Maiar, they surely can play quidditch [sarcasm] and piano. And Chewacca doesn't wear pants, [/sarcasm] so nobody is going to be hurt from a 300' or 400' fall. Too bad that everywhere else G & S are made of the same flesh than you or me (*). Too bad that neither G nor S are using broomsticks after or before that single scene. But who cares? Everybody loves quidditch: it's so cool! [/irony] <br /><br />I insist in that I don't specially like wuxia. Even if you love it: being massively used by the Wachoskies burned it out, so wuxia it's no longer edgie and cool, but weary and tiresome. Even if you claim wuxia to be as good as new: wirework and juggernaut-like heroes have nothing to do with LOTR universe, LOTR characters or LOTR plot, and they don't fit into (maybe they have a place into the Silmarillion, whose characters too often forget to eat or to sleep). <br /><br />But now I must remember to myself that it's not LOTR universe we are talking about, but PJ's Looney Toons version of it: a bizarro world where everything but Bombadil goes. This means that, at the end of the day, I'm wrong and Marcus was right. <br /><br />(*) Gandalf enjoys drinking and smoking -and so does Saruman-, suffers from fatigue, fear and hunger, and eventually has an arm broken. Middle-Earth can be populed by freaks made of weird stuff, such as trolls of stone, wooden ents, balrogs of flaming tar and the like; but it's implied (*heavily* implied) that Istari -aka wizards- are bounded to mundane, ordinary bodies. Cfr. the Eagles who, besides being declared to be heavenly minions, feed from raw flesh, steal cattle, get in trouble with shepherds and can get hurt by their arrows.anonimous, emperador en el exiliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13204169087393199959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88615935628640780022011-07-17T13:26:49.814-04:002011-07-17T13:26:49.814-04:00So let me disgress a bit more. IMHO, when it comes...<i>So let me disgress a bit more. IMHO, when it comes to psychokinetic brawls, FoTR doesn't hold a candle to the climax fight in 'The Empire Strikes Back', when Darth Vader throws everything and the kitchen sink on Luke's face.</i><br /><br />That's not really a fair standard since nothing compares to The Empire Strikes Back when it comes to a duel between a hero and a villain.<br /><br />It's like the people whining that the Indiana Jones sequels aren't anywhere near as good as Raiders of the Lost Ark when no action/adventure movie released since 1981 is anywhere near as good as Raiders.Elfdarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17332202910754546307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41339423520336326342011-07-15T12:22:58.024-04:002011-07-15T12:22:58.024-04:00I don't mind the wizards brawl. The plot of th...I don't mind the wizards brawl. The plot of the movie is so badly broken that another loophole or two doesn't make a big difference at the end of the day. <br /><br />I don't like it either. Marcus is right in that I cannot stand the mixing of western medieval warfare (LOTR or not) with eastern wuxia. I guess I could qualify as a "physics nerd".<br /><br />I have a pretty poor opinion of the Wachowskies' work. Neo is using gun fu and wire fu when he should be bending matter, wrapping space and pulling winged sharks out of his ass. I'm quite an stupid and unimaginative fellow who'd really enjoy living in a crystal pod, and I burst in anger when I came across stuff which is even more retarded and unimaginative that myself. But I'm disgressing here.<br /><br />So let me disgress a bit more. IMHO, when it comes to psychokinetic brawls, FoTR doesn't hold a candle to the climax fight in 'The Empire Strikes Back', when Darth Vader throws everything and the kitchen sink on Luke's face.<br /> <br />And don't even get me started about 'Akira'.anonimous, emperador en el exiliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13204169087393199959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-80316099866445066042011-07-15T09:58:55.708-04:002011-07-15T09:58:55.708-04:00@anomimious: Whatever. I'm just as intelligent...@anomimious: Whatever. I'm just as intelligent a fantasy fan as you are, and I thought the ambiguity about wizard powers was a perfect opportunity to shake things up a bit. Gandalf wielded Glamdring, he was always right there in the middle of the fight, and as others have pointed out he's basically an immortal angel dude, so my personal suspension of disbelief was never broken. And again, I'm no dummy. If you're so upset about getting wu xia peanut butter into your LOTR chocolate, well, great for you. Me, I *liked* the mix. It didn't take away from the movie at all, in fact enhanced my experience. <br /><br />"If you want a cool scene, rather than a crappy bunch of pretty generical stunts stolen from the Wachowskies, lets allow every wizard to use his unique spells and capabilities."<br /><br />It was a cool fight, lots of people liked it. The Wachowskis stole their wire work from numerous 80's HK films, who stole their wire work from various 70's Shaw Bros films. Peter Jackson came out of the same b-movie background that spawned Sam Raimi, they all watched the same films for inspiration.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06415810337505064345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82622676753073703552011-07-15T07:02:22.463-04:002011-07-15T07:02:22.463-04:00I am continually astounded by the silliness fanboy...I am continually astounded by the silliness fanboys emit over LoTR. Check this for example:<br /><i><br />I found Peter Jackson's disregard for Tolkien's prose disheartening. <br /></i><br />If he has such a disregard, why did Jackson move that beautiful piece of prose about Arwen and Aragorn from an appendix to the movie? It was a near-perfect rendition of Tolkien's words. Tolkien buries his best prose in an appendix, Jackson rescues it but you conclude Jackson has a "disregard" for Tolkien's prose?<br /><br />This is fanboy madness. As is the idea that a movie with brightly-coloured, circus-style dwarves is going to work. So many people complain that LoTR had too many dwarf jokes; now we have a movie where the Dwarves are going to be taken seriously rather than being treated like the joke Tolkien portrayed them as, and you complain that it's "arty-farty" at the same time as you somehow deride people who "accept" the "crumbs" that "hollywood" is throwing at them? (Jackson is from NZ - that's not Hollywood).<br /><br />Finally, have you lot seen <i>Meet the Feebles</i>? Understanding Jackson's work is a lot easier if you understand antipodean culture instead of expecting American cultural and aesthetic values.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66406786120746797652011-07-15T05:18:10.473-04:002011-07-15T05:18:10.473-04:00Their powers were always kind of vague in the book...<i>Their powers were always kind of vague in the books, giving them superhuman endurance isn't much of a stretch.</i><br /><br />And why do you think that Tolkien kept the wizards' powers shrouded in ambiguity? F*** the books and use some common sense! The movie is granting Gandalf the ability of casting the 'Force Pull of Dooku'(TM), as well as 'Magneto's Mithril Bones'(R). 'Magneto's Mithril Bones'(R) raises your wizard's AC to infinite plus one, making him into a walking tank impervious to pain and physical damage. And 'Force Pull of Dooku'(TM) is granted to derail the plot: "-Alas, a Balrog! -No problem, I cast 'Force Pull of Dooku' on him and drop the sucker out of the bridge." "-Freakin' walking trees! They are everywhere! -Don't panic, my minion. I'll give them a taste of my wondrous 'Force Pull of Dooku'." <br /><br />There must be one hundred cool ways of displaying a duel of mages (and a thousand perfectly good ways of avoid displaying it). As a matter of personal taste, and with all my respect to whoever thinks otherwise, having two old men engaged in a Chuck Norris' brawl with psychokinetics is not one of these.<br /><br />If you want a cool scene, rather than a crappy bunch of pretty generical stunts stolen from the Wachowskies, lets allow every wizard to use his unique spells and capabilities. Oppose Saruman's ability to screw minds and distort the truth, plus his mastery of mechanical traps, plus his upper authority, plus his army of minions versus Gandalf's fire and lighting.anonimous, emperador en el exiliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13204169087393199959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9929601210807592312011-07-15T01:26:19.857-04:002011-07-15T01:26:19.857-04:00"The bones of Jackson's wizards must be m..."The bones of Jackson's wizards must be made either of adamiantum or rubber."<br /><br />Or... they're wizards, which in Tolkien's mythos means thinly disguised angels who live for millenia and get sent back to earth by God when they die to finish their divinely appointed task.<br /><br />I'm with the lovers on this one.charles mark fergusonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13385121479729236749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58167123750604276972011-07-14T17:57:17.750-04:002011-07-14T17:57:17.750-04:00The "wildly exaggerated pub brawl" is *e...The "wildly exaggerated pub brawl" is *exactly* why it worked for me. Avoided the standard wizard duel light show cliches, felt brutal: kickass, in other words. :)Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06415810337505064345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25647902968171130082011-07-14T16:15:40.886-04:002011-07-14T16:15:40.886-04:00"The Jackson version just blows the animated ..."The Jackson version just blows the animated scene out of the water, in all ways. "<br /><br />Well, it's not perfect ("Say my name, Gandalf, you bastard! Say it with the goddamn 'S', you ****ing ****"), but I much preferred the feeling that the battle was being waged at a psychic level to the idea that a wizard dual is basically a wildly exaggerated pub brawl.Nagorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04934827653905274555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61293543808342784612011-07-14T13:43:01.243-04:002011-07-14T13:43:01.243-04:00"The bones of Jackson's wizards must be m..."The bones of Jackson's wizards must be made either of adamiantum or rubber."<br /><br />Umm . . . they're wizards?!? Their powers were always kind of vague in the books, giving them superhuman endurance isn't much of a stretch.<br /><br />Fine, some people didn't like the scene. It's still a rare complaint in my social circles and ohgodwhyamIstilltalkingaboutthis? :)Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06415810337505064345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15218007741564396302011-07-14T10:20:51.665-04:002011-07-14T10:20:51.665-04:00The wizard fight was pitch perfect, this is the fi...<i>The wizard fight was pitch perfect, this is the first time I've ever heard the complaint that Saruman and Gandalf's fight was anything but cool.<br /></i><br />I'll subscrive the complaint. No-one but Hugh Jackman or Roger Rabbit could survive that battle. The bones of Jackson's wizards must be made either of adamiantum or rubber.anonimous, emperador en el exiliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13204169087393199959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11508011044585571012011-07-13T19:31:12.654-04:002011-07-13T19:31:12.654-04:00"Bakshi handled the same scene (and the wizar..."Bakshi handled the same scene (and the wizard "battle") much better."<br /><br />IMO there is just no comparison between the Bakshi and Jackson interpretations. The Jackson version just blows the animated scene out of the water, in all ways. We are seeing two completely different movies here, and obviously have an *incredibly* different standard as to what's cool, so here's my "we must agree to disagree" point.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06415810337505064345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32060142131064689842011-07-13T17:44:39.411-04:002011-07-13T17:44:39.411-04:00The wizard fight was pitch perfect, this is the fi...<i>The wizard fight was pitch perfect, this is the first time I've ever heard the complaint that Saruman and Gandalf's fight was anything but cool.</i><br /><br />I'll have to add my name to the list of dissenters. Saruman and Gandalf are wizards, not Jedi knights.Taranaichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02176999342965850175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68741551018175771502011-07-13T16:49:10.409-04:002011-07-13T16:49:10.409-04:00"Hacks don't win best picture and best di..."Hacks don't win best picture and best director awards."<br /><br />If only it were true!<br /><br />"But I just don't understand why Jackson so often replaces Tolkien's own ideas with ones that radically alter the tone and meaning of the story."<br /><br />Oddest of all is when he repeats Tolkien's mistakes. The book suffers from "everybody's fineitus" and the last thing we needed was Aragorn to do a Gandalf. Likewise, the scene at Weathertop has real problems in the book but it just about carries it on the fantastic visual description of the nazgul. Not only did Jackson scrap that visual, he played it for laughs with the Nazgul literally running into each other like clowns. It only served to highlight the question of exactly why anyone was afraid of these chumps.<br /><br />Bakshi handled the same scene (and the wizard "battle") much better. Tolkien's explanation of why the nazgul failed to stop them reaching the Ford was pretty weak and it needed some real terror to push the audience over that hump, IMO.Nagorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04934827653905274555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24132715572059689362011-07-12T19:39:35.194-04:002011-07-12T19:39:35.194-04:00If I didn't feel so burned by Peter Jackson...<i>If I didn't feel so burned by Peter Jackson's failure to understand the heart of Tolkien's books and incessant need to tailor them to his own tastes, I doubt I would be bothered.</i><br /><br>Ultimately, my issue isn't that Jackson does things <i>differently</i> than Tolkien did; I expect that. In some cases, it might even be necessary because the differences between film and the written word. But I just don't understand why Jackson so often replaces Tolkien's own ideas with ones that radically alter the tone and meaning of the story. Now, we don't yet know that he has done that in <i>The Hobbit</i>, but, given his track record to date, it's hard to imagine otherwise and these pictures make me wonder what else he's disregarded in the original.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51350550228343077902011-07-12T16:30:35.840-04:002011-07-12T16:30:35.840-04:00Well, I appreciated it as nice homage to some of t...Well, I appreciated it as nice homage to some of the Hong Kong style action that had soaked into movies at that time. There was going to be some kind of magical duel there, no matter what, and the way they staged it felt a lot more visceral than having them throw a bunch of CGI fireballs around like your typical wizard duel. Loved it.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06415810337505064345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-86516407128857724592011-07-12T15:16:21.492-04:002011-07-12T15:16:21.492-04:00The wizard fight was pitch perfect, this is the fi...<i>The wizard fight was pitch perfect, this is the first time I've ever heard the complaint that Saruman and Gandalf's fight was anything but cool.</i><br /><br>Let us be the second time you hear this complaint then, because I didn't like it either. It was by far the weakest part of FotR, which is otherwise the best of three films in terms of faithfulness and tone. But, in my opinion, the Gandalf vs. Saruman fight was not one of the movie's strongest parts.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18423629027263601002011-07-12T12:31:10.132-04:002011-07-12T12:31:10.132-04:00"the race to the ferry and the breakdancing w..."the race to the ferry and the breakdancing wizards were two points that caused a great deal of amusements in the cinema I where saw the FotR"<br /><br />Gotta disagree with you completely on this one. The wizard fight was pitch perfect, this is the first time I've ever heard the complaint that Saruman and Gandalf's fight was anything but cool. While there were some diminishing returns creeping in as the trilogy progressed, I'll stand by FotR as a near perfect adaptation despite (or perhaps because) of the liberties Jackson took.Marcushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06415810337505064345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16517638969743945182011-07-12T10:59:00.814-04:002011-07-12T10:59:00.814-04:00Do you know for sure that these pictures of bearde...Do you know for sure that these pictures of bearded guys in black leather pants are not a hoax? They look like an april's fool joke: "When the Uncanny X-Dwarves met Magneto".anonimous, emperador en el exiliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13204169087393199959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82664912137263806722011-07-12T09:40:34.475-04:002011-07-12T09:40:34.475-04:00A hack you say?
Your talking about someone who s...A hack you say? <br /><br />Your talking about someone who single handedly creating what is today the modern film industry in New Zealand He started as a lowly photo assistant and gradually saved enough money to by a cheapo 16mm bolex camera and from there leaned to shoot, edit, write, producer, do FX, and even act. Even before LOTR's was even made he spent 20 years perfecting his craft and winning the confidence of people and to be able to make one film after another. He even founded Weta FX, one of the top special effects companies in the world and are soooo good at what they do they were James Cameron's choice when he was ready to do Avatar. Maybe even more amazing was how PJ actually about to convince people to give him the money to do LOTR even after his previous film" The Frighteners" film did poorly at the box office.<br /><br />--Hacks don't make film that gross one billion dollars each.<br /><br />--Hacks don't win best picture and best director awards.<br /><br />-- hacks don't create their own industry from scratch.<br /><br />--hacks don't make films that are so successful they boot the economy of their country.<br /><br />--hacks are not considered by people such as Steven Spielberg and Jams Cameron as one of their own.<br /><br /><br />But, I will tell you who's a hack is. He's the person who labels people other hacks and has never done jack shit--especially compared to to the likes of Sir Peter Jackson. Now that's a REAL Hack!!!crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35017887511229789052011-07-12T09:35:38.969-04:002011-07-12T09:35:38.969-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-84564519520310928142011-07-12T04:43:37.313-04:002011-07-12T04:43:37.313-04:00"Honestly, who do you think in the arty farty..."Honestly, who do you think in the arty farty film world has what it takes to pull off making a $200 million dollar fantasy film that will be a success."<br /><br />Actually, my point was that if you can't make a popular film of a popular book without being arty-farty then you're probably not the right person. Similarly, if you can't make a popular film of a popular book without making a mess of every important character in the story then you probably weren't the right person either.<br /><br />"Arty" and "Dumb" are not the only options here.<br /><br />The most telling thing about Jackson's version is not where he left stuff out, or changed the order of things. This is an adaptation of a long book and such things have to be done. But where he added new stuff it is universality dire. And sometimes more time-consuming than what was in the book, somewhat bizarrely.<br /><br />His direction was generally poor, of course, and literally laugh out loud bad in places (the race to the ferry and the breakdancing wizards were two points that caused a great deal of amusements in the cinema I where saw the FotR) but his total inability to handle story, plot, or character when it's not being handed to him on a plate is what marks him out as a hack that won the lottery.Nagorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04934827653905274555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19239395857407393252011-07-12T02:22:38.006-04:002011-07-12T02:22:38.006-04:00Nagora said...
"Excuse me for having expecta...Nagora said...<br /><br />"Excuse me for having expectations."<br /><br />An high expectations you certainly have there. Honestly, who do you think in the arty farty film world has what it takes to pull off making a $200 million dollar fantasy film that will be a success. Woody Allen? LoL!crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67877144998644675692011-07-12T02:21:32.929-04:002011-07-12T02:21:32.929-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22257728933480069562011-07-11T20:17:02.634-04:002011-07-11T20:17:02.634-04:00The problem is that, first off, any medieval-ish s...The problem is that, first off, any medieval-ish society likes wearing bright colors, especially ones easy to bleach clean. Dark and gritty is only appreciated by modern people who can afford to try to impress the world by looking depressed and dirty.<br /><br />Second, if you make the dwarves look evil, you have nowhere to go with the goblins. If you make the dwarves look "wild", you have nowhere to go with Beorn or the wood elves of Mirkwood.<br /><br />Peter Jackson is being boring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com