tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post1750153686206268205..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Level DrainJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43897725310713608202021-01-23T20:50:45.562-05:002021-01-23T20:50:45.562-05:00Level drain could be run as a kind of retrograde a...Level drain could be run as a kind of retrograde amnesia due to emotional shock. Just forget everything that happened in the process of gaining the level.<br /><br />There's a British woman who, at 32, woke up one day having forgotten half her life (including her child, profession, etc) and thinking she was 15. Her condition lasted for about 6 weeks.<br /><br />https://www.yahoo.com/news/32-year-old-woman-wakes-up-thinking-shes-15-116678581560.html<br /><br />Imagine the trauma of a middle-aged adventurer being level drained to the point where they think they're 18 but instead of being in a young body they're in a worn-out old one, feeling robbed of their future.Jonathan Hendryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11969795168617852589noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60885776659984644262020-11-07T01:39:32.690-05:002020-11-07T01:39:32.690-05:00Level drain is the scary thing sucking out a piece...Level drain is the scary thing sucking out a piece of your eternal soul. It take a little piece of you. You're no longer the man you were- you can't summon the wherewithal to cast that powerful spell anymore etc.<br /><br />I don't see how that is any more focussed on game mechanics than a sword strike reducing some HP. It's just as literary or cinematic or imaginative as any other form of attack & damage.Reasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09761229490262589438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7592984497857109522020-11-06T17:44:09.999-05:002020-11-06T17:44:09.999-05:00You can just roll one, two or three hit dice and s...You can just roll one, two or three hit dice and substract the result to the total hit point . <br />(or just reroll all hit dice)porphyre77https://www.blogger.com/profile/07620350717226228078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25505433066860517162020-11-06T15:06:31.270-05:002020-11-06T15:06:31.270-05:00That's good stuff, especially about the barrow...That's good stuff, especially about the barrow-wights.Geoffrey McKinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00042661843714609025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17026157860260189552020-11-05T19:25:47.249-05:002020-11-05T19:25:47.249-05:00“if you destroy the creature within one day per le...“if you destroy the creature within one day per level drained, you gain the levels back.” — I like that house rule. That is a good principle indeed. Alistairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04631364538623314004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33138032992519301442020-11-05T18:27:50.580-05:002020-11-05T18:27:50.580-05:00I've done that before - I've also given ou...I've done that before - I've also given out a -1 to hit/saves for each level drain which I think models the loss of ability caused by the touch of the undead pretty simply without having to audit the entire character sheet.ligehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05866236293322652977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37226355499836493792020-11-05T17:09:23.327-05:002020-11-05T17:09:23.327-05:00The mechanically easiest way might be just to say ...The mechanically easiest way might be just to say the hit points of damage they do are permanent, barring a Restoration spell. Doesn't even need an extra die roll, and certainly should get people's attention.ScrivenerBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04861652415900436411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-13548020803070404382020-11-05T16:44:57.059-05:002020-11-05T16:44:57.059-05:00More or less like what happened to Frodo after the...More or less like what happened to Frodo after the Nazgul got stabby on him...Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87857928963517440622020-11-05T16:30:33.665-05:002020-11-05T16:30:33.665-05:00I've always thought of level drain as a sort o...I've always thought of level drain as a sort of whole-body malaise where XP loss is a reflection of parts of your body literally necrotizing away. Like... muscle, tissue, organ, and brain cells die off, which naturally makes you less capable and less hardy.Confanityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361443460498670841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10800352145956873302020-11-05T16:07:34.486-05:002020-11-05T16:07:34.486-05:00Lose a HD is a pretty elegant solution. No need f...Lose a HD is a pretty elegant solution. No need for record keeping just have the player roll the appropriate die and take away that many hp.ligehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05866236293322652977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26593608250437291612020-11-05T08:41:59.567-05:002020-11-05T08:41:59.567-05:00I had independently come up with a "lose a le...I had independently come up with a "lose a level after raise dead" house-rule, and it seems to work OK. If anything, my players are over-cautions/risk-adverse.<br /><br />Level-drain seems to work fine for undead too in a 0e/1e setting. I try not to overthink it since "levels" are already pure mechanics.squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64508989300985384212020-11-04T21:14:25.711-05:002020-11-04T21:14:25.711-05:00Perhaps you should read my post again.Perhaps you should read my post again.JEFFBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08862106711059104379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50798804394895809392020-11-04T21:03:58.689-05:002020-11-04T21:03:58.689-05:00and now they turn their victims into more undead w...and now they turn their victims into more undead when they reach 0 hit dice. which is actually scarier, now you have a zombie who still has high-level spell slots or whatever...Captain Crowbarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11959402382179885595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76388947606549663462020-11-04T20:57:20.686-05:002020-11-04T20:57:20.686-05:00Unless the healing surges are lost permanently or ...Unless the healing surges are lost permanently or semi-permanently (possibly with something similar to the disease mechanic) it is not a good analog and not really all that scary for the players.Beorichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05179135838206052198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74832274715844579682020-11-04T20:55:35.390-05:002020-11-04T20:55:35.390-05:00Agreed on the weirdness of it, though the big stic...Agreed on the weirdness of it, though the big sticking point was always the book-keeping. I can barely remember what I rolled for hit points last time I leveled up, forget three levels ago. :ptrollsmythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895349218958093151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14442172990199597242020-11-04T20:45:15.416-05:002020-11-04T20:45:15.416-05:00Whether it's true or not, it's a pretty wi...Whether it's true or not, it's a pretty widely-held consensus in OSR circles that level-drain is there to be an "associated mechanic." In the same way that XP-for-GP makes the players as greedy for treasure as their characters ought to be, level-drain makes players as frightened of spooky undead as their characters ought to be.John Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06522143715905888511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38389766152902759332020-11-04T20:35:20.622-05:002020-11-04T20:35:20.622-05:00I'm much happier with my undead since I replac...I'm much happier with my undead since I replaced level-drain with specific abilities unique to those undead. In most cases, I swapped level-drain (frightens the players) for magical fear effects (frightens the characters), with specific levels or gradations (<i>fear</i> merely leaves characters shaken so that they fight at a penalty, <i>terror</i> causes them to flee and not willingly return, <i>horror</i> roots them in place as if mentally paralyzed). <br /><br />In addition to these effects, for the four classic level-draining undead (wights, wraiths, spectres, vampires), I added specific unique abilities that tie them to their literary or pop-culture roots. Wights got the ability of Tolkien's barrow-wights to lull their foes to sleep and to mysteriously replace their armor with burial-shrouds. Wraiths have a poisonous touch (think Frodo on Weathertop). For spectres, even though they're actually supposed to be D&D's answer to Nazgûl, I drew upon the most famous spectre in pop culture, Scorpion from <i>Mortal Kombat</i>, and gave them some hellfire and a short-range teleport. Vampires were the easiest to tweak: just give them the ability to actually suck blood for their attack (lots of other critters in D&D have that ability, vamps definitely should too!) along with the usual spread of pop-culture vampire super-powers.John Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06522143715905888511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16954232354757951432020-11-04T20:20:18.737-05:002020-11-04T20:20:18.737-05:00I like this rule; it has permanent consequences fo...I like this rule; it has permanent consequences for being attacked by high-level undead, but the consequences make more sense.<br /><br />I've rune with level drain, but my house rule is that if you destroy the creature within one day per level drained, you gain the levels back. Also, if you do not defeat the creature, if you immediately get complete bed rest, you get a saving throw versus Death each day of rest for one level drained; if you make the save, you get the level back.<br /><br />I think I will combine these with going with HD drain, instead. Gives the players who got drained a reason to go hunting the monster that drained them, and the reward is even bigger for victory...James Mishlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03510782553325944558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89111673531023988582020-11-04T19:20:09.297-05:002020-11-04T19:20:09.297-05:00I've used permanent HP drain and/or permanent ...I've used permanent HP drain and/or permanent ability score drain in place of level drain for a few years now. Avoids having the deal with 'the maths' of level drain with respect to XP points etc. Also less wailing and gnashing of teeth from the players ... they really hate losing hard won levels. ChrisShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07100160438119455222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45880273890765939112020-11-04T18:13:45.025-05:002020-11-04T18:13:45.025-05:00I think 3E and 4E both do a better job with "...I think 3E and 4E both do a better job with "life drain". 3E causes some penalties to all D20 rolls, possibly ability score reduction and after time a Save to see if the loss is permanent.<br /><br />4E uses the reduction of "healing surges". I made (as a houserule) these losses also require a save during the next overnight rest to see if the healing surge loss was permanent. I used Healing Surges in 4E as "in game currency" for lots of things- making your way through a blizzard without exhaustion, swimming a raging river, Electrical traps that zap your vitality etc. Makes the game way more deadly. 13th Age also incorporated this idea.JEFFBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08862106711059104379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60798398184423788542020-11-04T17:49:33.103-05:002020-11-04T17:49:33.103-05:00I think that this works better, picking a random s...I think that this works better, picking a random stat and then draining the same number of points as damage from each blow. Can even describe withering injuries from the drain.Jacob72https://www.blogger.com/profile/17268402292420473229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2909899124199757382020-11-04T16:05:50.861-05:002020-11-04T16:05:50.861-05:00My personal take on it is that it is a mechanic de...My personal take on it is that it is a mechanic designed to simulate the "sense of weakness" that inexplicably overcomes pulp fantasy heroes from time to time. I prefer to drain ability scores instead and describe the sense of weakness accompanying it.Rod Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824146866756155345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50518022581493697372020-11-04T15:37:09.909-05:002020-11-04T15:37:09.909-05:00One thing to consider: several of the level-draini...One thing to consider: several of the level-draining undead turn their victims into more undead when they reach 0 level...FrDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00459281821319914530noreply@blogger.com