tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post1805606594424730740..comments2024-03-28T09:41:39.187-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: REVIEW: Fantasy Freaks and Gaming GeeksJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-44637959964364266102020-11-12T19:40:13.882-05:002020-11-12T19:40:13.882-05:00You made my day! (Excuse me while I clean up my co...You made my day! (Excuse me while I clean up my coffee.)Figulushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13549064050271896212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43653633681771218892010-11-14T16:17:47.420-05:002010-11-14T16:17:47.420-05:00"until a British person told me, "Look, ..."<i>until a British person told me, "Look, it's just typical self-deprecating English humor." </i>"<br /><br />Sorry to jump in again, but I'm British and prone to self-deprecating humour, but <b>The Elfish Gene </b>was beyond the pale, nasty and directed like a dagger into the back of people who clearly thought he was their friend.Tim Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03845783872464372488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65897218152414319482010-11-14T15:44:15.720-05:002010-11-14T15:44:15.720-05:00Great review. I loved this book.
I have to disagr...Great review. I loved this book.<br /><br />I have to disagree about the Elfish Gene, however. I felt similarly (damn, this guy hates himself and roleplayers!) until a British person told me, "Look, it's just typical self-deprecating English humor."Hans Ottersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17552122415866430007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61870827895607886052010-11-06T18:27:35.250-04:002010-11-06T18:27:35.250-04:00Somewhat along these lines, I found the following ...Somewhat along these lines, I found the following recent New Yorker story to be both infuriating and kind of fun:<br /><br />http://www.newyorker.com/fiction/features/2010/10/04/101004fi_fiction_lipsyteSaladin Ahmedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06032817654420468295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87725136083413336102010-11-05T06:51:54.654-04:002010-11-05T06:51:54.654-04:00I can't speak to The Elfish Gene, since I'...<i>I can't speak to The Elfish Gene, since I've never read it, but Gilsdorf doesn't dismiss gaming as childish at all. True, he's not returning to the hobby himself, but that's hardly an indictment of gaming. </i><br /><br />It's been a while since I read this one, and unfortunately I don't own the copy I read so I can't go back and re-read parts to refresh my memory. I definitely remember though feeling disappointed at his conclusions in the end. To his credit, I do recall some very nice and accepting sentiments expressed, especially in the part about the cos-players.<br /><br />It certainly wasn't as overtly antagonistic towards the hobby as <i>The Elfish Gene</i> was, which I read second, so perhaps reading them in succession colored my experience. I'll have to go dig up the book again and refresh my memory.<br /><br />Either way, it seems to me what's really missing in this genre of literature is a story of a well adjusted individual who continues to enjoy the hobby and makes no bones about it. I suppose though that probably doesn't make for very exciting reading.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06885070668246799352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16560598108720802492010-11-04T23:55:53.185-04:002010-11-04T23:55:53.185-04:00Thanks for the review, James. By a nifty coincide...Thanks for the review, James. By a nifty coincidence, my wife was just asking me for my Christmas wish list, which, as usual, is chock full of books. I'll definitely be adding this to the list.80sGamerGeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09273165960058841668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31867906399076692282010-11-04T21:57:20.531-04:002010-11-04T21:57:20.531-04:00Neither author seems to me to really come to terms...<i>Neither author seems to me to really come to terms with his childhood pursuit, ultimately dismissing it as innately childish. At least Elfish Gene focused strongly on gaming, while Fantasy Freaks and Gaming Geeks roamed the entire map of the fantasy genre before chucking it all at the end.</i><br /><br>I can't speak to <i>The Elfish Gene</i>, since I've never read it, but Gilsdorf doesn't dismiss gaming as childish at all. True, <i>he's</i> not returning to the hobby himself, but that's hardly an indictment of gaming. Far more significant to me is that he thought of enough of roleplaying and related fandoms that he investigated them all with an open mind and heart, something I don't see all that often in contemporary journalism, which is usually quick to paint us all as socially retarded weirdos.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73332938749282030032010-11-04T21:24:39.647-04:002010-11-04T21:24:39.647-04:00Wow, have to admit I'm a little surprised to h...Wow, have to admit I'm a little surprised to hear you review this book so positively. Much like the referred to Elfish Gene, I felt this book was enticing at first but then flat at the end. Neither author seems to me to really come to terms with his childhood pursuit, ultimately dismissing it as innately childish. At least Elfish Gene focused strongly on gaming, while Fantasy Freaks and Gaming Geeks roamed the entire map of the fantasy genre before chucking it all at the end.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06885070668246799352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34837085859638577142010-11-04T21:21:39.455-04:002010-11-04T21:21:39.455-04:00For myself I started poking at the memories in 200...For myself I started poking at the memories in 2003 by buying the Dragon CDROM from Ebay. And reading William Dear's "The Dungeon Master". It went into overdrive when EGG died. <br /><br />I think that if I had played D&D continuously since 1983, when I stopped, I wouldn't feel, as this author does, that he'd discovered a complete, hermetically sealed, strata of his past with which he can use to evaluate this present stage of life. There's something about having a clear start and stop point that traps the past in amber.brasspenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00740202895575678193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41198123882834922642010-11-04T19:53:58.948-04:002010-11-04T19:53:58.948-04:00Great post and great comments. And the book sound...Great post and great comments. And the book sounds great, too-- especially in grappling with what it means to return to D&D after proving that in fact you are a fully-functional adult.Brian (brian_cooper at hotmail d o t com)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02805168206752602148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6446586536367241052010-11-04T19:10:04.240-04:002010-11-04T19:10:04.240-04:00Wonderful blog post, James! Need to reed this book...Wonderful blog post, James! Need to reed this book.<br /><br />I can honestly say that role-playing games got me through adolescence. I spent most of weekends throughout high school running D&D and Cyberpunk for college students in their dorms. RPGs were both a figurative and a literal escape from the painful high school environment into a world where people were a little smarter and a lot more accepting.Restitutor Orbishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05625086532637410710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4097019646896000292010-11-04T16:47:21.263-04:002010-11-04T16:47:21.263-04:00@amp108
I have to admit that this blog is what fi...@amp108<br /><br />I have to admit that this blog is what first informed me that the OSR was happening, and gave me the resources to learn more about it. Even though I run a 3.x game (due to the proclivities of my players more than anything--I had to stridently oppose their initial desire to play 4E as they were all new players and assumed it was "just D&D, but the most current/best one"), I am an old-schooler at heart.<br /><br />p.s. keep up the good work, James!Taketoshihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17876641059472816784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39834597013270378712010-11-04T15:45:40.086-04:002010-11-04T15:45:40.086-04:00@Steven - to be fair to The Elfish Gene I hated it...@Steven - to be fair to <b>The Elfish Gene</b> I hated it so much that I only made it about half-way through before - fighting the urge to throw it out the window - putting it in the "charity bin". So, if there is some degree of redemption at the end, then I never reached it.<br /><br />To me, it was just a lot of sniping against old friends (<i>effectively behind their backs</i>) as though he was trying to worm his way in with the "cool kids"; retroactively rewriting his childhood to put the blame on D&D and his goofy mates.Tim Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03845783872464372488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85523929958912938972010-11-04T15:32:00.629-04:002010-11-04T15:32:00.629-04:00Doesn't France already have a few castles that...Doesn't France already have a few castles that were built according to medieval techniques?Matthew Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905727799828366356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58842033600688265332010-11-04T15:25:08.317-04:002010-11-04T15:25:08.317-04:00Gilsdorf was signing copies at the Troll Lord Game...Gilsdorf was signing copies at the Troll Lord Games booth at Gen Con 2009. He seemed really enthusiastic about the hobby in general. I picked up a copy then but it is still waiting to be read...<br /><br />I concur with what has been said about <i>The Elfish Gene</i>. I appreciated the look back at the state of the hobby in the 1970s (he mentions ordering D&D through a magazine ad, several comments about fanzines and other products), and as Orion said above, it's a great insight into growing up in England at that time. For all the attention to detail and the interesting stories of his fellow gamers (I remember a few just like them), it does unfortunately give the impression of gaming as an unhealthy, unproductive adolescent activity.<br /><br />Steve, you're right about Barrowcliffe's conclusion, although I wonder if that idea could have been expressed earlier on in the book. Perhaps as gamers we tend to be overly sensitive on that subject? I'm not sure.<br /><br />Any similar works like these out there?Kaijuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06184830369889881159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40669258928739771512010-11-04T15:15:23.689-04:002010-11-04T15:15:23.689-04:00@ckutalik: I got back into gaming in 2003, before ...@ckutalik: I got back into gaming in 2003, before Gygax's passing, although I really became interested in the OSR through this blog (after being frustrated with some aspects of the modern style of gaming). Don't know if I'm the statistical outlier, though.amp108https://www.blogger.com/profile/06730954482557756380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90206295139249549322010-11-04T14:56:29.836-04:002010-11-04T14:56:29.836-04:00Gilsdorf is an engaging fellow. We got to meet him...Gilsdorf is an engaging fellow. We got to meet him, give him a tour of the office, and chat over beer when he visited Seattle for a reading at a local book store.<br /><br />I had an entirely different reaction to The Elfish Gene than others here. The 'self loathing' seemed to be directed more at adolescence in general than toward D&D specifically. Barrowcliffe would have had a hard time fitting in anywhere. Initially, he blames his longer-than-typical road to adulthood on D&D, but by the end, he admits that D&D was only his enabler of choice. It's an affecting memoir of a type of self-imposed dysfunction that lots of teens put themselves through. I enjoyed it immensely, even if it was occasionally painful to read -- or perhaps because of that.<br /><br />SteveStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22241698226182114622010-11-04T14:14:24.720-04:002010-11-04T14:14:24.720-04:00"both me and my partner found the author to b..."<i>both me and my partner found the author to be a absolute tool</i>"<br /><br />I am so relieved to hear others say this - at the time the Amazon reviews were universally glowing for this book (<i>I suspect now it was a lot of the author's friends!</i>)!<br /><br />I have subsequently exchanged emails with him and found him a very pleasant and interesting chap, but it still doesn't excuse <b>The Elfish Gene</b>.Tim Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03845783872464372488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26105985463460347672010-11-04T14:09:00.481-04:002010-11-04T14:09:00.481-04:00Thanks James for the review. I am one who has also...Thanks James for the review. I am one who has also been wary of picking up this book after reading The Elfish Gene. Despite the previous book sparking my interest in the 3 LBBs and providing a glimpse of english life during the release of those said books, both me and my partner found the author to be a absolute tool.Orionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12544318089839943358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47090748045234005732010-11-04T13:04:38.870-04:002010-11-04T13:04:38.870-04:00Thanks for the review! I am often on the look for ...Thanks for the review! I am often on the look for people who have more integrated views of their days (past or present) of gaming. I like the OSR community that I have encountered here even if I find myself a marginal member. I've already hit Amazon for a copy of it.Padrehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05722958681098483324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75095927143807583382010-11-04T12:52:53.894-04:002010-11-04T12:52:53.894-04:00@ The Acrobatic Flea: I agree with you about "...@ The Acrobatic Flea: I agree with you about "The Elfish Gene" (read my first comment to the post, above. <br /><br />@Ckutalik: I think you're spot on with us "old-timers" coming back into the hobby and some of the things that happened that caused us to do so. One other thing that happened around this time and definitely affected me getting more involved was the release of 3rd Edition D&D and the massive ad campaign they did to reach lapsed gamers. I had stopped playing around 1989, when 2nd Edition came out. I kept reading <i>Dragon</i> so I knew what was going on, and I did pick up the 2nd Edition rules but never played them. I'd pretty much dropped out completely by the time 3rd Edition came out, but there was a "perfect storm" for me. A new group of friends I met, who were hard-core gamers, wanted to play 3rd Edition and invited me to join their campaign, and at the same time I had a completely different group of friends who had never played RPGs became interested in playing based on what they'd read/seen about 3rd Edition and asked me to DM a campaign for them. <br /><br />While I'm still DM'ing that campaign that started 10 years ago, I've also come back to running an old-school AD&D/OSRIC game for a group of friends.Martin R. Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11672657745232101753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82045881021477025712010-11-04T12:21:45.116-04:002010-11-04T12:21:45.116-04:00Thanks for throwing this out here. It sounds like ...Thanks for throwing this out here. It sounds like an interesting book. It's going on my list.White Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00364560315934410923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48273950201966093042010-11-04T12:00:08.177-04:002010-11-04T12:00:08.177-04:00We have seen the mainstreaming of fantasy and gami...We have seen the mainstreaming of fantasy and gaming in our culture over the past 10-15 years. It is the result of a lot of little things. Like Harry Potter. Like the fact that the digital game industry outperforms box office receipts. Like the fact that World of Warcraft has so many active users.<br /><br />In many ways it is like what happened to the computer nerd culture in the 90s.Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14039652384328042542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21207935077237191632010-11-04T11:56:11.389-04:002010-11-04T11:56:11.389-04:00Thanks for this review. I was put off this particu...Thanks for this review. I was put off this particular genre by the odious "Elfish Gene", which is full of the 'self-loathing' you spoke of at the start. Looks like another addition to my Amazon Wish List then :)Tim Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03845783872464372488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19103473681213153192010-11-04T11:44:06.655-04:002010-11-04T11:44:06.655-04:00I read that book earlier this year and found it en...I read that book earlier this year and found it enjoyable and an easy read. Ckutalik's comments are right on too.bliss_infintehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12433733609487959653noreply@blogger.com