tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post1828124746559948727..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Pulp Fantasy Library: The Shadow of the TorturerJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85769441911902429232009-08-05T04:39:58.832-04:002009-08-05T04:39:58.832-04:00Gene Wolfe matters beyond the realm of fantasy lit...Gene Wolfe matters beyond the realm of fantasy litterature. He introduced highest uncertainty in narrative that imho will outlast Borges talent. He kinda changed my life, like y'know, rock'n roll changed my life...monsieurverdierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16160832207910815760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78932871834845311302009-08-04T17:02:07.049-04:002009-08-04T17:02:07.049-04:00I really appreciate the pulp fantasy library posts...I really appreciate the pulp fantasy library posts, James. Almost all of these titles are going on my “to read” list. Though, at my rate, I may never get to them all.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24843741592714256052009-08-04T15:30:37.516-04:002009-08-04T15:30:37.516-04:00@Chris T
Matthew, I think it's pretty obvious ...@Chris T<br /><i>Matthew, I think it's pretty obvious (for me anyway)</i><br /><br />I have never used the word "obvious" in relation to Wolfe. :) As I say, I adore him, but almost never know what's going on.<br /><br />That said, I only read the New Sun once.Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36404524376942672282009-08-04T15:26:47.570-04:002009-08-04T15:26:47.570-04:00A few clarifications:
The "lexicon" boo...A few clarifications:<br /><br />The "lexicon" book referred to by another poster is Lexicon Urthus. <br /><br />The Book of the New Sun is definitely set in South America. (The capybaras are strong evidence, among other things.)<br /><br />And there are no "neologisms" in the book -- Wolfe has said that part of his inspiration was a desire to write a fantasy novel with no made-up words. Every word in the books can be found in a sufficiently unabridged dictionary.<br /><br />(Oh, and like 'most everyone else I love and respect Gary Gygax, but I have to wonder about anyone who prefers Piers Anthony to Gene Wolfe...)Matthew Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905727799828366356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14235215136980038332009-08-04T14:53:30.033-04:002009-08-04T14:53:30.033-04:00"but is there something, for lack of a better..."<i>but is there something, for lack of a better word, official about that?</i>"<br /><br />Wolfe approved/endorsed the Lexicon, including the map.<br /><br />Also, as I mentioned earlier, Machu Picchu plays an important role in the series.Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88088703142749077612009-08-04T05:39:46.530-04:002009-08-04T05:39:46.530-04:00I have loved this series for years and years. Als...I have loved this series for years and years. Also, someone else mentioned the Long Sun series, which is itself followed by the Short Sun series when the generation ship finally arrives at its destination. These books are not only related thematically, but are actually set in the same world. The generation ship was actually launched by Typhon, the two-headed king that Severian wakes up and fights.<br /><br />@Adam Thorton, Wolfe is very, very Catholic. The most unapallagetic Catholic writer that I think I know of (even more so than Walter M. Miller, Jr.), and more particularly, the Sun Series is Christian Kabbalah--implicitly in the first four books (as well as the follow up series), and very, very explicitly in the coda to the original-The Urth of the New Sun.<br /><br />James--I seriously recommend following up this series with its coda, The Urth of the New Sun, as well as the follow up series, The Long Sun and the Short Sun books. Wikipedia tells me also that The Fifth Head of Cerberus is in the same universe, prior to the events described in any of the above books.<br /><br />I hope all of that makes sense. . .Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17988373305532657192noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-86436034232397329022009-08-04T04:42:11.582-04:002009-08-04T04:42:11.582-04:00I loved the Book of the New Sun. I did find it a ...I loved the Book of the New Sun. I did find it a bit misogynist though - I went through the whole series and if you believe Severien's accounts, he only *ever* executes women!Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54765066601352740812009-08-04T03:29:37.191-04:002009-08-04T03:29:37.191-04:00James, do you mean to say that you've only rea...James, do you mean to say that you've only read the first book in the series?<br /><br />Read on! It gets heaps better... : )<br /><br />@ Matthew, I think it's pretty obvious (for me anyway) that the great river he mentions, in a great southern continent is the Amazon. It's been a while since I re-read it though.<br /><br />For the Tolkein fans, in an interview with Wolfe I read somewhere, he says that he loves LotR and when he got the first editions (when they came out) he wanted to take his time with them knowing it would be great, reading a chapter a night to savour the writing fully - or something along those lines.<br /><br />I have to admit the <i>Knight/Wizard</i> novels didn't quite do it for me...<br /><br />I highly recommend Peace and <i>Devil in a Forest</i>, esp. the latter if you're after a more mediaeval style fantasy.Chris Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064988977152302364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14397772905318836692009-08-04T03:26:01.924-04:002009-08-04T03:26:01.924-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chris Thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11064988977152302364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57280067195509946602009-08-04T01:50:40.396-04:002009-08-04T01:50:40.396-04:00@Akrasia--but is there something, for lack of a be...@Akrasia--but is there something, for lack of a better word, <i>official</i> about that?Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23451882690247807772009-08-04T00:16:06.760-04:002009-08-04T00:16:06.760-04:00"There's a map? My copy didn't have a..."<i>There's a map? My copy didn't have a map.</i>"<br /><br />Ah, right. I think that my map appeared in the Lexicon. IIRC, there is also one in the GURPS book.Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81223898684195387742009-08-03T23:46:21.858-04:002009-08-03T23:46:21.858-04:00I can't remember where I found this, but I'...I can't remember where I found this, but I've definitely read that the <i>Urth</i> books began as a direct response to Vance. <i>The Book of Gold</i> that the Master Librarian describes to Severian is actually supposed to be an ancient copy of <i>Tales from the Dying Earth</i>.<br /><br />I wish I could remember where I saw this, but it was from what I took to be a 'reputable source' (for whatever that's worth...).Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00862556389958594140noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1604310912307764612009-08-03T23:14:46.476-04:002009-08-03T23:14:46.476-04:00really good books - and I've yet to find anyth...really good books - and I've yet to find anything by Wolfe that has not been fascinating. Just got a copy of The Wizard today in fact! Can't wait to start it.Ragnorakkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03812860633134547618noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31221464362492368002009-08-03T20:45:45.784-04:002009-08-03T20:45:45.784-04:00"Through a combination of English archaisms, ..."Through a combination of English archaisms, Latinate neologisms, and words purely of his own invention..."<br /><br />Inspired by some of the work Ms Timeshadows has been doing recently, I picked up my ancient copy of "Shadow of the Torturer" just the other day....<br /><br />Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Wolfe has always said that their were NO made-up words contained in the series - I have been looking up the ones with which I am not familiar as I go and have found all of them so far.<br /><br />Part of the beauty of Wolfe's writing though is that you don't actually need to understand the exact meaning of the words as he uses them. They act as a wonderfully subtle colouring device that builds layer upon layer of atmosphere and texture. the effect of the books is like a series of oil paintings or collages.<br /><br />That said though, they are a great story. And light years ahead of the sclerotic second rate Tolkien (and Ayn Rand) pastiches that have clogged the genre...groakeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06036495334605477234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11064001451855306212009-08-03T20:42:32.673-04:002009-08-03T20:42:32.673-04:00_The Urth of the New Sun_ is essentially _TDE_ rew..._The Urth of the New Sun_ is essentially _TDE_ rewritten by someone who had read a WHOLE LOT of Borges, and also wanted to inculcate you into a freaky Neoplatonic quasi-Catholicism.<br /><br />I dig it. LOTS.<br /><br />There was actually a GURPS supplement for it, which was pretty damn good. The one game I played set on Urth was an interesting little dungeon crawl with some memorable NPCS (one played by my actor and director friend Joseph "Chepe" Lockett, and one by designer of the Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (computer) adventure game (and others) Josh Mandel).Adam Thorntonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368676086759298705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31430879080859991712009-08-03T20:03:32.928-04:002009-08-03T20:03:32.928-04:00@richard: sadly my difference engine is unable to ...@richard: sadly my difference engine is unable to correctly parse the media regarding the poppy-seed solution. I will 10^100 it and see what I can make of it. :)<br /><br />Yes, non-Euclidean. I try my best not to bring that up. R'lyeh and all that scuttle. :DTimeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43206586962224868702009-08-03T20:02:09.140-04:002009-08-03T20:02:09.140-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1148174375314337372009-08-03T17:10:47.469-04:002009-08-03T17:10:47.469-04:00Wolfe--Vance: whatever. :)
There's a map? M...Wolfe--Vance: whatever. :)<br /><br />There's a map? My copy didn't have a map.Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50295288062487791872009-08-03T17:05:57.251-04:002009-08-03T17:05:57.251-04:00@ Matthew Slepin: I assume that you meant "Wo...@ Matthew Slepin: I assume that you meant "Wolfe", not "Vance". ;)<br /><br />Also, looking at the map of Urth, it is clearly South America. Also, Machu Picchu plays an important role in the novels.Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16204242684818202152009-08-03T16:11:02.774-04:002009-08-03T16:11:02.774-04:00Wolfe was also the lead Engineer on the Pringles P...<i>Wolfe was also the lead Engineer on the Pringles Potato crisp 'saddle' design</i><br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_geometry" rel="nofollow">hah</a>! I've often wondered whether some math nerd arrived at the Pringle as an attempt to cram non-Euclidean flavour into a humble chip. Thanks for clearing that up for me.<br />If he'd worked for Thomas' he could have had a go at the <a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4223425" rel="nofollow">poppyseed problem</a>.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34727378129902526282009-08-03T15:59:16.807-04:002009-08-03T15:59:16.807-04:00Vance is one of those authours who's works I a...Vance is one of those authours who's works I adore, even when i mist concede that I can't figure out what the hell he's talking about. Although I sort of followed the New Sun, to this day i still can't figure out what the hell transpired in the Book of the Long Sun.<br /><br />But even as I'm totally bewildered, he's just a great writer.<br /><br />@Kent--what makes you think the setting was South America (other than the Catholicism)?Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67121729768166484832009-08-03T15:58:11.219-04:002009-08-03T15:58:11.219-04:00"The Castle of the Otter" is another gre..."The Castle of the Otter" is another great companion book to the New Sun - it's a collection of essays Wolfe wrote about the series. I think that's where I read that one of the impetuses for the character of Severian was that Wolfe was disappointed that none of his characters were being chosen as costumes at SF convention masquerades.Tavishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08589149850152191198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18554875319401572032009-08-03T13:50:27.289-04:002009-08-03T13:50:27.289-04:00Wolfe's "The Book of the New Sun" is...Wolfe's "The Book of the New Sun" is one of my all-time favourites. Wolfe created a genuinely original world in those novels.<br /><br />A friend of mine who is a Wolfe fanatic leant me a book entitled "Lexicon of Urth" (or something like that), which made the novels *much* more comprehensible during a second read. Tracking that book down, or the GURPS book on Urth, might help one appreciate just how complex and unique Wolfe's creations is.Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10800112383099769192009-08-03T13:27:33.683-04:002009-08-03T13:27:33.683-04:00FWIW Gary never read these books (and it'd be ...FWIW Gary never read these books (and it'd be an interesting alternate history if he had, and they'd influenced his work on AD&D, Dangerous Journeys, etc.). His first/only exposure to Gene Wolfe came very late in his life when someone at ENWorld (Col. Hardisson?) recommended Wolfe's <i>The Knight</i> and <i>The Wizard</i> to him and he read them -- he very much liked and strongly recommended the former, but claimed he found the latter hard to get through. When asked about his favorite post-70s fantasy authors for the last time in early 2008 he responded with the usual suspects (Cook's "Black Company," Pratchett's "Discworld," Anthony's "Split Infinity") and added something to the effect of "and to a slightly lesser extent, Gene Wolfe."Trenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01889179660165006042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27848247421024607762009-08-03T13:16:53.197-04:002009-08-03T13:16:53.197-04:00Interestingly, Severian did ultimately end up havi...Interestingly, Severian did ultimately end up having an influence on D&D. 4e's Avenger class is partially based upon him.<br />Thought that might be an interesting addendum.Rachel Ghoulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765944479141792643noreply@blogger.com