tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post1865536894576498230..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: The Past is a Foreign Country (Take Four)James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74346256607301715072012-06-10T06:37:35.971-04:002012-06-10T06:37:35.971-04:00I disagree James, I think that space travel has be...I disagree James, I think that space travel has been normalized. As <br />another commenter observes, the proliferation of private companies doing<br /> it tells you all you need to know. And if walking on Mars were such a <br />simple expectation, it would have been done in a previous generation - <br />but it wasn't, because it's damn hard. Instead we have a constant stream<br /> of data coming from Mars, something the previous space landers weren't <br />able to do - the scientific world is achieving great things in space <br />through automation (think of the Hubble space telescope as an example). <br />We have actually got a great many more pictures of the surface of Mars <br />than we got from the moon, for example.<br /><br /><br /><br />Also, aren't you Canadian? I'm surprised that you watched "nearly every <br />space shuttle launch" because when I was growing up in the UK we watched<br /> precisely one (the first one). I thought the phenomenon of watching <br />every irrelevant tidbit of NASA activity was a strictly American <br />idiosyncracy. <br /><br /><br /><br />But on the topic of the space shuttle - some people argue that it was a <br />boondoggle that led NASA to its doom, and that we'd possibly have got <br />deeper into the solar system if NASA had spent all that money on cheaper<br /> rockets and automated explorers instead...Faustusnoteshttp://faustusnotes.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89660589734576648552012-06-10T06:37:11.713-04:002012-06-10T06:37:11.713-04:00I disagree James, I think that space travel has be...I disagree James, I think that space travel has been normalized. As another commenter observes, the proliferation of private companies doing it tells you all you need to know. And if walking on Mars were such a simple expectation, it would have been done in a previous generation - but it wasn't, because it's damn hard. Instead we have a constant stream of data coming from Mars, something the previous space landers weren't able to do - the scientific world is achieving great things in space through automation (think of the Hubble space telescope as an example). We have actually got a great many more pictures of the surface of Mars than we got from the moon, for example.<br /><br />Also, aren't you Canadian? I'm surprised that you watched "nearly every space shuttle launch" because when I was growing up in the UK we watched precisely one (the first one). I thought the phenomenon of watching every irrelevant tidbit of NASA activity was a strictly American idiosyncracy. <br /><br />But on the topic of the space shuttle - some people argue that it was a boondoggle that led NASA to its doom, and that we'd possibly have got deeper into the solar system if NASA had spent all that money on cheaper rockets and automated explorers instead...Faustusnoteshttp://faustusnotes.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31263498955441886342012-06-09T01:54:56.815-04:002012-06-09T01:54:56.815-04:00We haven't gone back to space because we can&#...We haven't gone back to space because we can't. In the 1960's the US was soaring with a young population, stable families a strong economy and even with the burden of the Vietnam war, the county was in a powerful place. <br /><br />Today we have an aging poorer population that can't even feed itself . Our budget for food support (called SNAP in the US) is 80 billion, 5x that of NASA! That's not actually enough to prevent widespread food insecurity.<br /><br />We also have other social issues involving race, family make up (30% out of wedlock births) infrastructure, technology, jobs, poverty, wealth distribution and such that we can't even discuss. The opinion gaps are too great and the anger level is toxic.<br /><br />As for Europe, despite John Glenn or what Space Cowboys would have you think, Space is a game for a young society and youngish men with optimism and resources to spend. With a median age of 40, high youth unemployment and unstable pensions, Europe does not have the resources for Space<br /><br />Same for Japan, Singapore and well pretty much everywhere with technology.<br /><br />Two exceptions, China will probably manage something cool in the next few years. They have major internal contradictions but they do have money to burn and an ego to feed. A long term presence is probably unlikely but that's another topic <br /><br />Also the private sector, they'll do a few things, maybe a a space hotel. This will serve as a retreat for the super rich but will accomplish nothing in the broader sense.<br /><br />As for 40 years out, I won't predict anything. There are so many problems on the horizon that anyone of them could end very badly.5 Stone Gamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10901166409365749652012-06-08T20:29:16.251-04:002012-06-08T20:29:16.251-04:00After Ray Bradbury's passing I flipped open th...After Ray Bradbury's passing I flipped open the table of contents in the Martian Chronicles, and felt an instant wave of nostalgia. I remember how I felt years ago reading all those dates on the chapter headings: 2001. 2002. 2005. Just putting a "20" at the front of a date placed it far enough into the future that any amount of optimism was plausible.<br /><br />I don't think there's any date you could use today in a work of fiction, whether 30 or 50 or 100 years in the future that could recapture the same sense.Edward L Hamiltonhttp://www.facebook.com/Edward.L.Hamiltonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50826426317611390792012-06-08T15:11:41.811-04:002012-06-08T15:11:41.811-04:00> Instead, the web is making us dumber: the you...> Instead, the web is making us dumber: the young today will<br />> web search and plagorise in preference to do any work if they<br />> can get away with it (and that's just one example).<br /><br />Sorry, but as a teacher, I can tell you that you are wrong here. Both studies and my and a lot of colleagues' personal experiences show a different behavior. Even 10 year old pupils can react pretty ungracious when their co-student try to sell plagiarized material as their own work. And that's in Germany where there's traditionally less competition between students than in the English-speaking parts of the world.Christoph Thillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28217520751250393682012-06-08T14:46:47.292-04:002012-06-08T14:46:47.292-04:00I have exactly the same feeling about how we Ameri...I have exactly the same feeling about how we Americans (or, at least, some of us) saw what 2001 A.D. would look like back in 1973 (which was when I saw Kubrick's movie, at age 9). Back in '73, the world of 2001 looked moderately optimistic but not at all unreasonable -- after all, the U.S. had just gone from having only subsonic airplanes to landing on the Moon in 30 years.<br /><br />If somebody had told my nine-year-old self that, in Dec. '72, I'd just seen the last human being who'd walk on the Moon for <i>forty years</i> ... well, I don't really know what my reaction would have been. Amazed and horrified, in equal measure, I think.<br /><br />But it does look to me like we're finally seeing a return to space that has a real chance of not sputtering out. SpaceX has just managed to reach low earth orbit and return. And as Heinlein said, when you're in low earth orbit, you're halfway to anywhere. I think we'll see a huge amount of manned space exploration in the next four decades. Which, after the last wasted 40 years, will be a relief...Erich Schwarznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36751768258755074392012-06-08T11:32:16.889-04:002012-06-08T11:32:16.889-04:00Great post. I was born on that fateful year. that ...Great post. I was born on that fateful year. that year we as humans looked back and saw what a fragile little blue dot we were on that immense black canvas. I think that must have played a part in my upbringing, and interest in what's up there. <br /><br />I sometimes have the same sadness you speak of that I can not capture my boys interest in the real and amazing that is the surrounding universe. I found I was the only one staring at the sun through welders goggles as venus made her lonely jouney across the sun.<br /><br />But, I am hopeful. In many ways, moon and mars bases and space stations and to visit and asteroid mining is so much closer to them and reality than they can imagine. Just make it a business and it will happen.leadaddictnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37480674592913344812012-06-08T10:55:50.363-04:002012-06-08T10:55:50.363-04:00Participating in the sewers of the internet will c...Participating in the sewers of the internet will certainly give that impression. It's not universal, however.<br /><br />On your second point, the ancients argued against writing, saying that it would destroy the carefully conditioned memories of the learned. They were right, of course: we generally no longer bother to learn the advanced techniques of memory, and haven't since about the Renaissance, more or less. I don't know that the internet will cause us to develop a different way of approaching intellectual material, but it remains possible.Faoladhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3283990375854022582012-06-08T08:53:41.806-04:002012-06-08T08:53:41.806-04:00It's somewhat ridiculous to call the vast sea ...It's somewhat ridiculous to call the vast sea of insults and inane status updates traded across the internet as 'sharing knowledge.' In terms of furthering knowledge and making people smarter.. there is no evidence that this happening. Instead, the web is making us dumber: the young today will web search and plagorise in preference to do any work if they can get away with it (and that's just one example). The internet is a crutch for a limp that we didn't have until we started using it.The Recursion Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63602098750649411802012-06-08T03:21:58.473-04:002012-06-08T03:21:58.473-04:00Well, that happens if a whole society starts getti...Well, that happens if a whole society starts getting pessimistic and realizes the limits of real-life space travel...doreshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63763848601988924092012-06-07T22:45:55.770-04:002012-06-07T22:45:55.770-04:00I was really thrilled to see the Space Shuttle Dis...I was really thrilled to see the Space Shuttle Discovery launch in February of 2011. It was one of the last two or three launches of the space shuttle era. Very cool. Plus, I really dig watching shows like the Navy Blue Angels and the Air Force Thunderbirds...they're still awesome.Solomonhttp://profile.yahoo.com/ZXX7KN3TKMU5SVDS7RYUGVJS6Inoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-70463836238519151592012-06-07T22:36:27.053-04:002012-06-07T22:36:27.053-04:00The old school SF definitely had a naive wonder to...The old school SF definitely had a naive wonder to it that spoke of promise. Then along came Bladerunner with all it's maudlin themes. :-oSolomonhttp://profile.yahoo.com/ZXX7KN3TKMU5SVDS7RYUGVJS6Inoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68550214673223176722012-06-07T22:30:32.543-04:002012-06-07T22:30:32.543-04:00What about all the old Godzilla movies predicting ...What about all the old Godzilla movies predicting that nuclear power was going to rouse the worst monsters to trod the Earth since pre-historic days?Solomonhttp://profile.yahoo.com/ZXX7KN3TKMU5SVDS7RYUGVJS6Inoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-55191356664756890202012-06-07T21:31:53.022-04:002012-06-07T21:31:53.022-04:00I'd like to borrow 2 billion-billion dollars t...I'd like to borrow 2 billion-billion dollars to finance the colonization of the Lunar and Martian States. Colonization Efficiency requires Female only Colonists with the male contribution in a sperm freezer.<br /><br />Or would you like to squander the future and fight it out with China?reddeerrunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4027479560296464222012-06-07T16:42:55.400-04:002012-06-07T16:42:55.400-04:00 Makes you feel a bit better about 5E. Sure it'... Makes you feel a bit better about 5E. Sure it's just the RPG equivalent "going to the moon again", but at least they're doing it.Mutant Bikernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48144139982956098492012-06-07T14:30:39.145-04:002012-06-07T14:30:39.145-04:00As a side note about returning to the moon... a fr...As a side note about returning to the moon... a friend's husband works for NASA and is part of the design team to reverse engineer the old school systems. He mentioned that the biggest hurdle is the lack of surviving documentation that thoroughly describes those systems. Apparently, a lot of improvisation occured in order to rig things up. He also mentioned that paper documents have decayed and been lost. He does say that it amazes him even with his background how much was accomplished with what amounts to slide rules, scratch paper, tin foil, wire, and basic engineering. Remember, your cell phone has more 'electronic computing power' than the early space program did.Streviknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43322689586522979672012-06-07T14:15:07.129-04:002012-06-07T14:15:07.129-04:00As I understand it, it's taking a while becaus...As I understand it, it's taking a while because they need to re-engineer the module and delivery system using current technology. They're not just going to re-use designs from the past. So, we do know how in some respects, but in other respects we're going into new territory. <br /><br />Also, I found it interesting that there seemed to be only one guy at the conference who was in NASA when the previous missions (that were similar to this new effort) went down.Slerotinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83251946248289888852012-06-07T14:03:05.115-04:002012-06-07T14:03:05.115-04:00I don't know if this helps, but Orion pre-flig...I don't know if this helps, but Orion pre-flight activities are set to occur FY12 and FY13 while the Exploration Flight Test-1 is set for FY14. And if I remember correctly from the NASA conference I attended a few months ago, they're looking to get back to the moon in the 2017-2019 timeframe.<br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov/exploration/systems/mpcv/index.htmlSlerotinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58321217448747650842012-06-07T13:21:48.222-04:002012-06-07T13:21:48.222-04:00When I was at Game Developer, most of my coworkers...When I was at Game Developer, most of my coworkers were at<br />least a decade younger than me. Whenever I would mention space exploration to<br />them, maybe something about an astonishing image from one of the Mars Ex rovers<br />or the Huygens probe, they would give me the blankest looks. It just didn’t<br />register with them. Of course they enjoyed science fiction games like Mass<br />Effect and so forth, but they couldn’t relate to actual space exploration. A<br />curious thing was that many of their game design heroes; people like Richard<br />Garriott, Will Wright, and John Carmack are actively involved in space travel.<br />But then I guess they’re older. Somehow a generation got skipped.Jeffrey Fleminghttp://transuranic-design.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77571225394105647572012-06-07T13:15:20.209-04:002012-06-07T13:15:20.209-04:00lol, I can remember back in the late 70's when...lol, I can remember back in the late 70's when quite a number of futurists were predicting we'd all be living in fallout shelters or frozen in glaciers by now. We're not doing so bad. I can also remember there being quite a lot of pollution problems and air quality problems in north america back then that don't seem to be in the news much anymore. <br /><br />Things haven't worked out quite the way the sci-fi authors envisioned, but theres been lots of huge developments that have profundly changed the world in many ways both positive and negative. bobhttp://pulse.yahoo.com/_YYO2NCKWQZ5VMJ4QTY2P7BW2FUnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46012223807078209242012-06-07T13:08:19.523-04:002012-06-07T13:08:19.523-04:00The whole point of those kind of statements now is...The whole point of those kind of statements now is to be far-off enough that you're out of office and unaccountable. When he uttered that I instantly shouted "BS" out loud. I'd do the same for either party.deltanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14088390889945303632012-06-07T13:06:24.328-04:002012-06-07T13:06:24.328-04:00 I sit on a city bus and see 30 people without exc... I sit on a city bus and see 30 people without exception plugged in with headphones and staring at tiny screens, it's very Matrix-y.deltanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39726044657788075892012-06-07T12:38:53.789-04:002012-06-07T12:38:53.789-04:00How 'bout walking your kids outside one evenin...How 'bout walking your kids outside one evening and <a href="http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/" rel="nofollow">showing them how to spot the International Space Station</a> as it orbits the Earth?Black Vulmeanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73073719123735943642012-06-07T12:22:47.500-04:002012-06-07T12:22:47.500-04:00You have made me profoundly sad. I hereby resolve ...You have made me profoundly sad. I hereby resolve not to procreate until man commits to a manned mission to Mars.joe whitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34630632720213107152012-06-07T12:11:23.874-04:002012-06-07T12:11:23.874-04:00I wouldn't worry the folks at SpaceX, X-Cor, M...I wouldn't worry the folks at SpaceX, X-Cor, Masten, Armadillo Aerospace, Scaled Composites,mBigelow, and others got your future covered. We may even wind up with rockets that land on their tail in the classic profile!Robert Conleynoreply@blogger.com