tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post1972232472175144735..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: Queen of the Demonweb PitsJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58229558689843313552009-02-07T11:51:00.000-05:002009-02-07T11:51:00.000-05:00Aye -- unfortunately, in most cases, there's a...Aye -- unfortunately, in most cases, there's almost no communication between writer & artist at all. This, frankly, is a dire state of affairs -- leaving things in the hands of the editor or line director, to wrap up eventually, definitely leads to products that are of a lower standard than they need to be.Ian Sturrockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07449065244623947284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-13153207211033670372009-02-07T10:02:00.000-05:002009-02-07T10:02:00.000-05:00I suspect the optimal approach to adventure design...<I>I suspect the optimal approach to adventure design would be a collaborative one between artist/mapmaker and writer -- more like the way that some of the great graphic novel & comic collaborations have been created, than like traditional adventure design.</I><BR/><BR/>Indeed. It's a pity how rarely this seems to happen, though.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71051815926164320612009-02-07T09:58:00.000-05:002009-02-07T09:58:00.000-05:00Re the Maps: I believe DCS was really a cartograph...<I>Re the Maps: I believe DCS was really a cartographer, rather than an artist, which is why the map is so cool.</I><BR/><BR/>That's a very good point.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54774149364303402962009-02-07T09:54:00.000-05:002009-02-07T09:54:00.000-05:00Does anyone know anything about Gary's envisioned ...<I>Does anyone know anything about Gary's envisioned ending to the sequence?</I><BR/><BR/>I don't believe he had one, at least not one he was happy with. That's why Sutherland got the job to finish it, even though the end result was something Gary later claimed he didn't like all that much.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24656731358418320342009-02-05T05:08:00.000-05:002009-02-05T05:08:00.000-05:00I suspect the optimal approach to adventure design...I suspect the optimal approach to adventure design would be a collaborative one between artist/mapmaker and writer -- more like the way that some of the great graphic novel & comic collaborations have been created, than like traditional adventure design.Ian Sturrockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07449065244623947284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57461568453811170322009-02-04T17:51:00.000-05:002009-02-04T17:51:00.000-05:00Perhaps this is a silly notion, but I had an idea ...Perhaps this is a silly notion, but I had an idea about potential consequences of slaying Lloth:<BR/><BR/>When the PCs return to material plane do they find all spiders species snuffed out of existence? What are the ramifications?<BR/><BR/>-->Is there a massive insect overpopulation? New insect monsters?<BR/><BR/>-->Do spells or potions requiring spider parts or webs have drastic changes? Will they work the same? At all?<BR/><BR/>-->What happens to Lloth's followers on the material plane? Do they seek another deity? Or become victims of another god?<BR/><BR/>-->As stated before, what happens to the Demonwebs? Is it taken over by another god? Does it's ecology change without Lloth's life force? Was it something else before her and does it revert back?<BR/><BR/>Food for thought...Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07997164906328234122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-79192782334861267532009-02-04T15:49:00.001-05:002009-02-04T15:49:00.001-05:00Re the Maps: I believe DCS was really a cartograph...Re the Maps: I believe DCS was really a cartographer, rather than an artist, which is why the map is so cool.<BR/><BR/>I ran this one a few days back in the day--like Weapon Speed factors and other bits of AD&D, I ignored most of the persnickety details. We always had a good time with this adventure and I used to look at p.27 and think cool, extra-planar thoughts.<BR/><BR/>One idea that never, ever occurred to me is what happens to the Demonwebs after Lloth is slain. That now sounds like a more interesting adventure to me than killing her.Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41034125633310132002009-02-04T15:49:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:49:00.000-05:00Q1 remains my favorite module of all time. First,...Q1 remains my favorite module of all time. <BR/><BR/>First, because it was the first module that took place on another plane and as a Teen DM (circa 1983) only armed with Deities & Demigods book - I had a lot of trouble figuring out how all these planes intersected wtih the Prime Material.<BR/><BR/>Second, I loved the idea of a killer dungeon that then had gateways to "Other Worlds" a la Narnia.<BR/><BR/>Also something about Lolth in a giant mechanical and yet magical spider was strangely seductive.<BR/><BR/>I could not relate to the G-D series other than Vault of the Drow, which I took to be a large exercise in Machivellian politics. Of the players compromising their souls to defeat the Drow by aligning one House against another House. Church of Lolth against the Church of the Elder Elemental God. All the time whilst our poor female Elf Magic User was being slowly tortured to death.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51910790909107417212009-02-04T15:02:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:02:00.000-05:00>I prefer things a little rough around the edge...>I prefer things a little rough around the edges; it gives me an excuse to roll up my sleeves and make it shine<<BR/><BR/>I experiened this with pretty much every module I ever had, especially those of TSR.<BR/><BR/>Demonweb turned out to be an experience I had many times in my gaming life - a module that came nowhere near the hype. Something like this demanded to be well thought out, with encounters that friggin' made sense on a whole. It's a God's lair, for Chrissake! <BR/><BR/>Lycanthropes are something that, to me, are supernatural things so tied to the material world (and plane)that their existance on a Godly place is just ridiculous. Undead also don't seem right except on the material world, or the plane of a death god. They could not come up with more original stuff for this far flung dimension than just the typical dungeon fare? A giant mechanical spider is the best they can come up with for this cosmic place? Sounds more like a modern Hollywood take on things.<BR/><BR/>Maybe having had it been a gigantic living spider I would be "now you are talking!" But what, the Godly realms have all this damn steam punk stuff, then? Or Lolth is the only being blessed with robotic technology? Jeez...<BR/><BR/>Don't get me wrong, my copy was great bathroom reading (like most of my unused gaming stuff), but the product as an example of what the big boys think was a great interdimensional adventure was kind of insulting to me, even the young idiot that I was. It seemed worse than the previous products promising great underworld adventures, then having it mostly be composed of tunnels that ended either in dead ends the DM was to "fill in," or the lone, crazed member of the orcish/derro/kobold race...<BR/><BR/>I think these guys should have read more 1970's Doctor Strange.Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10273221623928870762009-02-04T14:40:00.000-05:002009-02-04T14:40:00.000-05:00I always got the impression that Planescape was la...I always got the impression that Planescape was largely inspired by the Manual of the Planes with a few unique elements thrown in here and there.<BR/><BR/>But then again, it might be splitting hairs at this point.Hamlethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135081554790749914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24338032630450289632009-02-04T14:39:00.000-05:002009-02-04T14:39:00.000-05:00One of the things that I found interesting about t...One of the things that I found interesting about the module was that it truly did present the gods in a different light. Here's a god in her home plane and you can actually destroy her. What happens then? I always loved imagining what might happen in that vacuum.<BR/><BR/>In my humble opinion gods should either be a nebulous ideal, or they should be very mortal. The middle ground just never sat well with me. This module presented one end of the spectrum that came to define my treatment of pantheons thereafter.<BR/><BR/>I was a player in this module, and frankly I have to say that it was quite likely the pinnacle of my AD&D days back in high school. I'll always look upon this adventure with much fondness.Gamer Dudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05006232842482959060noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52978585617559386202009-02-04T14:04:00.000-05:002009-02-04T14:04:00.000-05:00I get the impression that Planescape had much of i...I get the impression that <I>Planescape</I> had much of its inspiration in this module. Interesting that one of the most well-regarded settings may have srpang from a scenario that was not so well-loved.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-447338463125209002009-02-04T13:25:00.000-05:002009-02-04T13:25:00.000-05:00Out of the entire module, I've always felt that th...<I>Out of the entire module, I've always felt that the real gem of it was the portals to alternate Prime Material worlds. That, right there, was genius, and still inspires me tremendously. Especially the dwarves at war.</I><BR/><BR/>Agreed. That was my favorite portion, too; it had the feel of Moorcock's Million Spheres setting to it, at least for me.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45712888366171197372009-02-04T13:22:00.000-05:002009-02-04T13:22:00.000-05:00Trampier did Titan? Huh. I should turn in my gun a...Trampier did <I>Titan</I>? <A HREF="http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/103" REL="nofollow">Huh</A>. I should turn in my gun and badge.<BR/><BR/>As for Q1's map, it's something like a MOMA from hell, innit?K. Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06623767121412820113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69621839797883206362009-02-04T13:21:00.000-05:002009-02-04T13:21:00.000-05:00Spider form aside, there's no reason why Lolth has...<I>Spider form aside, there's no reason why Lolth has to take the spider motif to a gimmicky degree. At least not anymore than Demogorgon has to surround himself with killer baboons.<BR/><BR/>Just some devil's advocate there. :)</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know, I've always found the thought of a spider filled layer of the Abyss to be an absolutely terrifying thought. But that could just be the aracnaphobia talking.<BR/><BR/>Out of the entire module, I've always felt that the real gem of it was the portals to alternate Prime Material worlds. That, right there, was genius, and still inspires me tremendously. Especially the dwarves at war.Hamlethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135081554790749914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19471668644489072192009-02-04T12:16:00.000-05:002009-02-04T12:16:00.000-05:00I was always the GM for my group, and so never got...I was always the GM for my group, and so never got to play in any of these "classic" modules. It's still a daydream of mine to actually play this series (Giants-Drow-Lolth) and the Slavers series. which is one of my favorites.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90548467648934152992009-02-04T12:05:00.000-05:002009-02-04T12:05:00.000-05:00Spider form aside, there's no reason why Lolth has...Spider form aside, there's no reason why Lolth has to take the spider motif to a gimmicky degree. At least not anymore than Demogorgon has to surround himself with killer baboons.<BR/><BR/>Just some devil's advocate there. :)Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-44638561053438591972009-02-04T11:41:00.000-05:002009-02-04T11:41:00.000-05:00Good recap. I did play Q1, have fond memories of i...Good recap. I did play Q1, have fond memories of it, and my PCs did kill Lolth (coming down to one particular d6 roll).<BR/><BR/>The one thing that bothers me in retrospect is how the PCs would ever know about the intertwined levels in the first place. It seems like discovery of that is basically infeasible (I know I ran it wrong back ~1980).<BR/><BR/>To the above poster, you can see of the Dragonsfoot 1E adventure page link, "Skein of the Death Mother" by John A. Turcotte, which replaces the final desert/ construct setting with a more conventional dungeon/ cavern complex.<BR/><BR/>http://www.dragonsfoot.org/ad/index.shtmlDeltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28732925225624340312009-02-04T10:51:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:51:00.000-05:00Does anyone know anything about Gary's envisioned ...Does anyone know anything about Gary's envisioned ending to the sequence? I've heard something about the Sunless Sea, but not much else. Supposedly there have been a few fan-created D4/Q1 creations, but I've never been able to find them.widderslaintehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16364618128943330961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40695021914936799782009-02-04T10:41:00.000-05:002009-02-04T10:41:00.000-05:00I agree with all your comments.Personally I ran Q1...I agree with all your comments.<BR/><BR/>Personally I ran Q1 for a party around 22nd level (1e) and they had a good challenging time of it, but killed Lolth in the end.<BR/><BR/>I have no desire to run it again though, although I recently acquired the G & D series and look forward to running them.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.com