tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post2308772307563177175..comments2024-03-19T04:29:47.922-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Not Your Father's PHBJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23275436892600981622008-07-21T13:58:00.000-04:002008-07-21T13:58:00.000-04:00"I wonder how many other people out there sta..."I wonder how many other people out there started playing as kids in the 90s and fell in love with older versions of D&D later? It definitely doesn't seem to be the rule..."<BR/><BR/>Well, in high school (1995-1999) I went from running 2nd edition FR with Skills & Powers to a mix of 1st and 2nd edition in Greyhawk. And my gaming of late has been no less than 3 little book OD&D. Second edition just wasn't all that well liked, and most of the people I found interesting in online communities extolled the virtues of the 1st edition rulebooks. Later, getting into OD&D really let me discover what is great about the game -- which I didn't find in either 3rd edition or in Castles & Crusades -- the pure joy of the dungeon adventure.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11200449157137029671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15294699043116999942008-07-11T09:29:00.000-04:002008-07-11T09:29:00.000-04:00Dungeon FurnaceIs this a reference to something I'...<I>Dungeon Furnace</I><BR/><BR/>Is this a reference to something I'm not getting?James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71257045362637080792008-07-11T09:28:00.000-04:002008-07-11T09:28:00.000-04:00So are the DMGs next?I hadn't intended to do them,...<I>So are the DMGs next?</I><BR/><BR/>I hadn't intended to do them, but perhaps I should, if only to shock people with my belief that the revised 1e DMG cover is better than the original one.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24646143638221473852008-07-11T09:27:00.000-04:002008-07-11T09:27:00.000-04:00I think this is the best PHB cover since the origi...<I>I think this is the best PHB cover since the original AD&D PHB</I><BR/><BR/>I am reluctantly inclined to agree. As a cover, it does what it needs to do very well, far better than any cover since 1e. Unfortunately, what it sets out to do is something I have utterly no interest in.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82941568928251862422008-07-08T20:58:00.000-04:002008-07-08T20:58:00.000-04:00On the dragonborn guy on the cover, two words:Dung...On the dragonborn guy on the cover, two words:<BR/><BR/>Dungeon FurnaceOlmanFeelyushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17521657876810568251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32391952900006638782008-07-08T11:19:00.000-04:002008-07-08T11:19:00.000-04:00FWIW I've given it a bit more thought, and run up ...FWIW I've given it a bit more thought, and run up against an impasse - that is, I don't think I've solved the problem of what D&D ought to be. My ramblings can be seen over here: http://richardthinks.livejournal.com/79585.html<BR/>It's meant in a friendly way: I'm definitely not accusing anyone of being a fogey.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66784574386714537522008-07-07T09:42:00.000-04:002008-07-07T09:42:00.000-04:00enjoyed the PHB series of posts. So are the DMGs ...enjoyed the PHB series of posts. So are the DMGs next?Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07130831351237667189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19924616490331138512008-07-07T06:30:00.000-04:002008-07-07T06:30:00.000-04:00More seriously, I do find the phenomenon of the 3e...<I>More seriously, I do find the phenomenon of the 3e "grognard" befuddling. On the one hand, I sympathize with their plight. On the other hand, I find it more than a little strange to see anyone hold up 3e as the One True Edition of the game. I appreciate many things about 3e, it's true, but it's as far mechanically from OD&D as 4e is thematically.</I><BR/><BR/>I think what it comes down to is that everybody has a different idea of what they think D&D is "about". D&D has obviously changed a lot since its inception back in The Day, and it's pretty easy to view the history of the game as a gradual "evolution" towards whichever version you happen to favour.<BR/><BR/>Most 3.X "Grognards" view the game as having evolved naturally from the "limited" format of early editions (a small number of classes, rules primarily focused on combat and adventuring) to a more "versatile" format for later editons (starting with things like the Players' Option books in 2nd Ed and culminating in 3.X's plethora of build options). For such people it's perfectly natural to view 3.X as what the game "should have been all along". 3.X is almost certainly the game that some people always thought D&D should have been, so it's natural to view it as the "one true edition".<BR/><BR/>Of course, the same is true of pretty much any RPG ever published. If I was feeling glib I'd suggest that the entire RPG insustry is basically a big set of D&D houserules.Dan Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05711867728179306264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91641242330396294382008-07-07T01:23:00.000-04:002008-07-07T01:23:00.000-04:00this is a D&D game derived from other D&D games - ...<I>this is a D&D game derived from other D&D games - not from primary sources.</I><BR/><BR/>I have to think more before I can really put together a response to this, but it strikes me as a very complex idea, and one where the pros and cons aren't obvious. I like Leonardo's "study nature and be a son of nature - if you study art you'll be a grandson of nature" as much as the next man, but I don't quite know where the nature is, here, or what the valid list of sources is (even though James has had a fair go at laying out his answer to that question, I'm not sure he's laid it to rest).richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46926299115519586132008-07-06T18:27:00.000-04:002008-07-06T18:27:00.000-04:00I think this is the best PHB cover since the origi...I think this is the best PHB cover since the original AD&D PHB - even with the dragonborn thing. Make the 2 front characters humans and it would be a very strong piece.<BR/><BR/>- PatrickP_Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65847072359417999242008-07-05T16:23:00.000-04:002008-07-05T16:23:00.000-04:00"I wonder how many other people out there started ..."I wonder how many other people out there started playing as kids in the 90s and fell in love with older versions of D&D later? It definitely doesn't seem to be the rule..."<BR/><BR/>I started with Moldvay Basic in 1981, moved shortly thereafter to AD&D 1e, updated with each edition up through 3.0, and have chronologically regressed since then, finally ending up with OD&D. At this point in my gaming life, I can't see running any edition of D&D other than the original or Moldvay/Cook B/X.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10856299661187809371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90830478139812845572008-07-05T14:55:00.000-04:002008-07-05T14:55:00.000-04:00First off, I'd say that my experience re: criticiz...<I>First off, I'd say that my experience re: criticizing 4E is pretty much the opposite of yours, I've found that if you say anything remotely positive about it, you get jumped on by a pack of rabid 3.X fanboys who insist that 4E isn't a proper roleplaying game because it doesn't have rules for tying knots.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not discounting that at all, but then I don't have anything good to say about 4e :)<BR/><BR/>More seriously, I do find the phenomenon of the 3e "grognard" befuddling. On the one hand, I sympathize with their plight. On the other hand, I find it more than a little strange to see anyone hold up 3e as the One True Edition of the game. I appreciate many things about 3e, it's true, but it's as far mechanically from OD&D as 4e is thematically.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26858612267137447802008-07-05T14:51:00.000-04:002008-07-05T14:51:00.000-04:00It says, to me, that this is a D&D game derived fr...<I>It says, to me, that this is a D&D game derived from other D&D games - not from primary sources.</I><BR/><BR/>I think that's exactly right. More than anything else, what irks me about 4e is that it's the first edition that doesn't look back to the fantasy literature that inspired OD&D but rather to other fantasy material inspired <I>by</I> OD&D and its descendants. 4e is Ouroboros edition of <I>D&D</I> and that sits poorly with me.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57019712192720810272008-07-05T07:11:00.000-04:002008-07-05T07:11:00.000-04:00A couple of comments on a couple of points.First o...A couple of comments on a couple of points.<BR/><BR/>First off, I'd say that my experience re: criticizing 4E is pretty much the opposite of yours, I've found that if you say anything remotely <I>positive</I> about it, you get jumped on by a pack of rabid 3.X fanboys who insist that 4E isn't a proper roleplaying game because it doesn't have rules for tying knots.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, I actually rather like the Dragonborn on the cover, because it strikes me as drawing a line, not between 4E and its origins (which, as you observe yourself, it's always been a pretty damned long way away from anyway), but between 4E and the typical "Tolkeinesque" image of "D&D Fantasy".Dan Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05711867728179306264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85065544796482892062008-07-05T01:33:00.000-04:002008-07-05T01:33:00.000-04:00I think the logo and layout of this cover are both...I think the logo and layout of this cover are both very, very good.<BR/><BR/>I think Wizards has other pieces that would have served better as the cover art for the PHB.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78975859901612378502008-07-04T20:38:00.000-04:002008-07-04T20:38:00.000-04:00If I had to guess, given it's wearing plate, that ...If I had to guess, given it's wearing plate, that the Dragonborn on the cover is a Paladin (Leader). The woman is likely the Wizard (Controller), the Dwarf a fighter (Defender) and the Eladrin possibly a Warlock (Striker) to round out the party balance.<BR/><BR/>I like Wayne Reynolds stuff - his work on the Paizo iconics stands out for me as being both evocative and interesting. I've also seen a couple Osprey pieces he's done, and while they're not Angus McBride, they show he has an understanding of historical appearance and human anatomy.<BR/><BR/>That said, I share some of your feelings. This cover owes more to the advances in video game guides than anything else (something reinforced by the layout inside). It says, to me, that this is a D&D game derived from other D&D games - not from primary sources.<BR/><BR/>While I found the grimoire appearance of 3e to be kind of silly, at least it suggested some tie to the past.Jason Langloishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02507550527211520786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56385952621608708742008-07-04T16:45:00.000-04:002008-07-04T16:45:00.000-04:00Conan the Barbarian is perhaps the only fantasy fi...<I>Conan the Barbarian</I> is perhaps the only fantasy film I have ever rated as actually good, rather than just vaguely entertaining. Whilst it doesn't really have a whole lot to do with Robert E. Howard's Conan, it was definitely my gateway into Conan in general. Also, the soundtrack is awesome...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646247954542936623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65554555491253356192008-07-04T16:13:00.000-04:002008-07-04T16:13:00.000-04:00At least I don't have to deal with that, being onl...<I>At least I don't have to deal with that, being only 30.</I><BR/><BR/>I turn 39 in October, so I don't think I truly qualify as an old fogey -- at least not more than I did when I was 20.<BR/><BR/><I>I wonder how many other people out there started playing as kids in the 90s and fell in love with older versions of D&D later? It definitely doesn't seem to be the rule...</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know. I've met quite a few of them myself, but then I hang out in places where you'd expect to meet such people. I'd say they're rare, but no rarer than guys who gamed in the 70s and upgrade to the newest edition every time one is released.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, enjoy LL. It's a great game.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3888843972449858012008-07-04T16:09:00.000-04:002008-07-04T16:09:00.000-04:00Speaking of which, it's time to depart for my July...Speaking of which, it's time to depart for my July 4th Labyrinth Lord session. :)<BR/><BR/>Later.Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81575263046483981532008-07-04T16:08:00.000-04:002008-07-04T16:08:00.000-04:00"What I do hate, though, and what I do not wish to..."What I do hate, though, and what I do not wish to see in my comments is the suggestion that, because I don't want to play 4e and think it has little to nothing to do with the game Gygax and Arneson created almost 35 years ago, I'm some kind of mental defective or an old fogey living out my midlife crisis by returning to OD&D."<BR/><BR/>At least I don't have to deal with that, being only 30.<BR/><BR/>I wonder how many other people out there started playing as kids in the 90s and fell in love with older versions of D&D later? It definitely doesn't seem to be the rule...Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-70199336730386004182008-07-04T15:47:00.000-04:002008-07-04T15:47:00.000-04:00But I still think it's one of the few fantasy film...<I>But I still think it's one of the few fantasy films with actual gravitas.</I><BR/><BR/>I actually agree with you about this. I think the first movie is pretty good if you don't think of it as a Conan movie but as a generic sword & sorcery film.<BR/><BR/>Ironic.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16230747091933176002008-07-04T15:43:00.000-04:002008-07-04T15:43:00.000-04:00Man, I was with you 100% up until you took a swipe...Man, I was with you 100% up until you took a swipe at the Conan flicks! The first one has many virtues. Being true to Howard is not among them, I'll grant. But I still think it's one of the few fantasy films with actual gravitas.<BR/><BR/>The second movie sucked, but it sucked in all the right ways.Jeff Rientshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.com