tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post2457717290750631508..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: REVIEW: Old School MagicJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14515724960279461892010-09-19T09:03:54.817-04:002010-09-19T09:03:54.817-04:00Chuck, you...are something else.
And I mean that...Chuck, you...are something else. <br /><br />And I mean that in the best possible way. :)Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88770553161261227382010-09-18T16:33:32.899-04:002010-09-18T16:33:32.899-04:00Will, I ran a city campaign where the players all ...Will, I ran a city campaign where the players all started out as members of those classes. We had a Scribe and a Blacksmith that I remember, forget what the other PCs were.<br /><br />They all had the chance to dual class into adventuring classes as the game went on.Vigilancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302020918798504358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23990807996069799612010-09-17T15:06:27.928-04:002010-09-17T15:06:27.928-04:00One great thing 4e did was to revive the old 1e DM...One great thing 4e did was to revive the old 1e DMG and prior notion(?) that NPCs didn't need to be statted with class levels to be above '0 level'. In my new 1e/OSRIC campaign the DMG Sage and Ruffian (2hd folks from the random encounter table) have been my model for statting 90% of encountered NPCs, and I think the game benefits greatly from this approach. From your review I really think this book might have been better as a compendium of such magic-wielding NPCs, akin to the DMG Sage.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1386917556898909192010-09-17T04:36:00.462-04:002010-09-17T04:36:00.462-04:00Even if those non-adventuring NPC classes had an a...Even if those non-adventuring NPC classes had an audience, I wonder if they ever had *users*. <br /><br />Did anybody ever really wile away their precious free time filling out whole character sheets for each blacksmiths and scribes in their campaign?Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71910239103624611562010-09-16T23:42:08.820-04:002010-09-16T23:42:08.820-04:00RE my philosophical comments.
My musings about lo...RE my philosophical comments.<br /><br />My musings about lots of classes vs. minimal classes weren't inspired by you James, not specifically.<br /><br />As I'm sure you're aware, that's a discussion our little hobby has been having for YEARS. <br /><br />In OSRIC circles it's certainly a "hot button" issue. It's wrapped up in the reasons for Unearthed Arcana being such a contentious book, for example. <br /><br />For many folks I have talked to, the classes and races in Unearthed Arcana were fine as Dragon Magazine articles.<br /><br />But once they became an Official AD&D Hardcover with Gary Gygax's name on the spine, suddenly they had an "officialness" that meant their inclusion was more expected and suddenly all that extra crunch was a burden. <br /><br />I also think this ties into some people's varying preferences for OD&D/S&W vs. their preference for OSRIC/AD&D. <br /><br />In short, as someone who clearly likes a lot of crunch and fiddly bits, it seemed something that needed to be addressed, because it's clearly a major point of difference in the hobby at large. <br /><br />I also put those thoughts there because I frequently get the impression from my fellow old-schoolers that "splat books" were an invention of 2nd and 3rd edition D&D. <br /><br />This seems mistaken to me. The AD&D era was a golden age for crunch. Not in books dedicated to it. I think Unearthed Arcana wins the prize there. <br /><br />I on the other hand, remember to this day my delight at springing a Ninja and his Houri assistant on my players, both from classes found in White Dwarf magazine. <br /><br />And of course, I loved the Winged Folk from the pages of Dragon, and preferred the alternate monk from Dragon to the "real" one. <br /><br />So that one wasn't you James :)<br /><br />It was more a product of how for some, Unearthed Arcana is where it all went wrong. While for me, it was maybe my single favorite AD&D book.Vigilancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302020918798504358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58447802607919839212010-09-16T23:33:16.507-04:002010-09-16T23:33:16.507-04:00Curious if you would see "NPC" classes a...Curious if you would see "NPC" classes as interesting additions to multi-classing for player characters? Could a Magic User cozy up to the powers of a Sage to create a more good archetype that would play a little different then your standard Wizard in pointy hat? Though I don't see some of these as all that interesting on their own or paired with a more solid class.fauxcryehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13772555578908486849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47740850840533837442010-09-16T22:36:15.898-04:002010-09-16T22:36:15.898-04:00I'm not sure that restricted spell options are...I'm not sure that restricted spell options are a big issue, provided that the available spells are good. My own campaign tends to see PCs have access to only 3-5 spells, that they can use a lot; but the spells themselves are quite powerful. A lot of modern games - Warhammer 3, D&D4, and the Japanese game Double Cross 3 are examples I'm thinking about a bit at the moment - seem to have shifted to this idea of having a few spells and using them often.<br /><br />In practice, I have found that D&D spell-users tend to end up memorizing and using the same limited selection over and over, because although the spell lists are versatile the opportunities to use many of them are very few and far between, even with a creative GM. (Yes, <i>Magic Mouth</i>, I'm thinking of you).<br /><br />So maybe in practice the restrictions aren't an issue.<br /><br />Oh, and I wonder how many variants of the "elementalist" have been tried and published over the years...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62798925804643916582010-09-16T22:34:27.341-04:002010-09-16T22:34:27.341-04:00Two things:
First, the majority of these classes ...Two things:<br /><br />First, the majority of these classes fare quite well in playtesting. They were all used by Player Characters I drafted to try them out.<br /><br />I can tell you that they all fared well and were viable. Some of them to the surprise of their players.<br /><br />The Conjurer for example, was a combat monster. He's not as versatile as a magic-user, you're spot on there James, and maybe he isn't even as versatile as an Illusionist.<br /><br />But in combat he was terrifying. And his summoned monsters were useful for problem solving too- traps, tripping ambushes, scouting large areas quickly. <br /><br />Second, there's only one comment in the book directed to you, and you didn't mention it! <br /><br />Anyway, thanks man, great review as always. You always give me stuff to think about :)Vigilancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302020918798504358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12811699331800860392010-09-16T20:50:08.869-04:002010-09-16T20:50:08.869-04:00"What was the point in having an armorsmith c...<i>"What was the point in having an armorsmith class or a scribe class? They seemed so unnecessary to me."</i><br /><br />I with you. The proliferation of classes was bothering me, and the highly-specialized NPC classes most of all. In fact, thinking about it,this proliferation was likely one of the factors that drove me away from class-and-level altogether and toward skill systems.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75701430809259730222010-09-16T19:46:34.921-04:002010-09-16T19:46:34.921-04:00most of this stuff looks like Dragon material or c...most of this stuff looks like Dragon material or covered in 2nd Edition's splatter books. but those creative ideas are evil because all pre-1989 AD&D is sacrosanct. barf. (aka 2e rules)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48922043342134252302010-09-16T19:26:14.965-04:002010-09-16T19:26:14.965-04:00I was always puzzled by the wild proliferation of ...I was always puzzled by the wild proliferation of NPC-oriented classes in the 1e Dragon days. I suspect that for some of the combat types, "NPCs Only" was intended with a wink, but for complete nonadventurers - noncombatant Armorsmiths? Hermits who can't leave their cave? Why did they need a systematic division of the abilities into levels and XP like a PC class when their stats were unlikely to ever even come up, and the level/ability breakdowns only serve to restrict what the DM can put on a map when he needs. You can tinker with it, of course, but it's just more work to undo work at times. I've changed my mind about this over the past several years, but I think it's a more efficient and more honest way of doing things to just put together the numbers for NPCs that they need to have to serve their purpose in the campaign world.Welcome to Dungeon!https://www.blogger.com/profile/14346914156633328775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49385529874576036212010-09-16T18:45:40.830-04:002010-09-16T18:45:40.830-04:00Sounds interesting, but I'm afraid I'll ha...Sounds interesting, but I'm afraid I'll have to wait until January to buy it. I don't want to be even unconsciously influenced by others' take on new classes before I've fully developed the Mystic, Bard, and Savant for my own ADD game.Greyhawk Grognardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13929743865700766901noreply@blogger.com