tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post2495433374681748773..comments2024-03-28T20:36:33.364-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Gamma World, Cover to Cover (Part X)James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46522591339187393282012-02-10T13:28:50.819-05:002012-02-10T13:28:50.819-05:00I love Gamma World to death but I've always sa...I love Gamma World to death but I've always said that Domars are stupid. Really in the far future we're using plastic coins for money?Apocalypse Nerdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17797663755043121351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36639372312090368952011-06-27T13:07:42.712-04:002011-06-27T13:07:42.712-04:00Currency and languages were two things I spent a b...Currency and languages were two things I spent a bit of time considering before starting a GW campaign, trying to imagine what might be the most realistic extrapolation of each idea when pulled into the 25th century. Ultimately, I decided that the retro vibe of GW wasn't really suited for the kind of posthuman ultratech that most modern SF is focussed on these days. Also, simplicity of game play was on my mind. So, I kind of copped out and simply made domars equal to platinum pieces in value, but only in urban areas with a relatively strong local government. (I also picture domars as being somewhat like poker chips, as mentioned by Malcadon, but most modern survivors have no way of determining the values imprinted on the "chips", so all domars are basically considered equal.)<br /><br />For languages, I had come up with a short list of different root tongues that might have evolved into various forms of modern pidgin speech, but again, simplicity of game play won out and I pretty much let all that slide to the wayside. One thing I did want to keep, though, is the notion that the Ancients were inscrutable, so I borrowed a concept from Neal Stephenson's "Anathem" and had the Ancient written language be based on a continuously active morphing cypher. (Ultimately, I don't even really know what that means... but it certainly seems <i>alien</i>!)Duglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04952607750940479779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41224354891798167332011-06-27T06:14:51.128-04:002011-06-27T06:14:51.128-04:00Domars might have been a novelty before the Shadow...Domars might have been a novelty before the Shadow Years, like bus tokens or casino chips, but the chaos of the Shadow Years resulted in people backing-up their credits in a more solid form. With all the violence and terrorism going on at the time, it would make sense that the criminal underworld would use a solid medium to make unlawful, untraceable transactions - if you haven't noticed, for a time with a lot of peace, they suddenly had a lot of nasty weapons at their disposal. Casino chips would make sense, as they are supported by a large industry, are harder to track then electronic funds, generally harder to counterfeit then real money, and the book noted Domars as being "inlayed with colors and symbols denoting various denominations", like actual casino chips. At least, that is how I rationalize it.<br /><br />As for their utility (or lack there of), making something described as "indestructible" into armor or building materials, would only make it as strong as the stuff that holds them together, but if the lesser materials is not much of an issue, then it sound down right valuable. I can imagine a suit of piece metal armor made out of Domars - a really colorful suit, at that!Malcadonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03111796978336546944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34678778020325762492011-06-26T06:08:18.232-04:002011-06-26T06:08:18.232-04:006 hit points is 2 hit die, not 1 HD James.
Accordi...<i>6 hit points is 2 hit die, not 1 HD James.</i><br /><br>According to the GW text, "robotic units have one full hit die (6 points) per cubic meter of size."James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1723524584216530122011-06-26T01:32:15.538-04:002011-06-26T01:32:15.538-04:006 hit points is 2 hit die, not 1 HD James.6 hit points is 2 hit die, not 1 HD James.UWS guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01277557128674527225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30635621105517488492011-06-26T00:42:33.019-04:002011-06-26T00:42:33.019-04:00The domar concept seems sound to me. There is no c...The domar concept seems sound to me. There is no certainty that the world would remain stable enough and high trust enough to support virtual currencies. <br /><br />As for the disappearances Rob mentioned, well yes but there probably isn't enough economic activity beyond barter for that to matter. I guess that arbitrarily allowing the extra currency to circulate is kind of Gamma Keynesianism designed by various groups (preservationists, trade federations, whoever) to try and recreate trade networks and more trade activity.<br /><br />Cryptic Society Cat Mutant is Cryptic ...<br /><br />As for common language, well its a dumb rationale. Given when the game was made it made and where it was set it made more sense to assume that there is a common tongue or at least mutual intelligibility because everyone spoke a single language at one time.<br /><br />Now a "now" based Gamma World game might not have such a tongue, there are well over a hundred languages spoken in say LA Unified School district for example and no guarantee English would come out on top in a tussle.<br /><br />Of course the original Gamma World ancients were kind of a jump suit future with a smidgen of dystopia that went boom rather than more modern C-Punk or Prayer of the Roller Boys decay styles too.5stonegameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10694550968360550229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28383675457483322832011-06-26T00:05:08.717-04:002011-06-26T00:05:08.717-04:00@anarchist - that because one of the things requir...@anarchist - that because one of the things required for something to be money is that it is not useful. Useful materials disappear from circulation crippling their use as a currency. <br /><br />Gold, and silver are useless metals compared to copper, iron, zinc, etc. Too soft and malleable for any type of technology application known to ancient society.<br /><br />The ultimate problem of domar is that because they can't be made there will be a steady rate of them disappearing from circulation. This is due to people losing coinage, the destruction of coins by various means, and the simple burying of a treasure trove. <br /><br />This will cause a deflationary cycle as the volume of money shrink compared to economic activity. Eventually this will cause the adoption of something else as money.Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-80858652523019772352011-06-25T23:21:06.746-04:002011-06-25T23:21:06.746-04:00@Duglas: That was my point. That the idea of virt...@Duglas: That was my point. That the idea of virtual currency was so alien back then in 1978. It was an expression of wonder about how the world has fundamentally changed in ways that they couldn't have imagined. Sorry if I didn't make that clearer. =8(<br /><br />[Although you could easily argue that increased cyberwarfare technologies resulted in an increased segregation of networks and computers, making the entire concept of trusted communication/computing laughable in the extreme. In which case virtual currencies would have been a ridiculous notion of the 21st Century... <i><grin></i>]<br /><br />I agree, the standard GW androids are simply artificial-life. It's just that many of the ones we encountered in various campaigns had generally been augmented with implanted devices (such as bioenergy converters). If you are building a synthetic, it pays to make improvements as you do so. [But then we tended to run harder SF games of Gamma World than is the norm.]Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9062444004527989422011-06-25T23:17:33.068-04:002011-06-25T23:17:33.068-04:00I don't think wampum or cowrie shells had any ...I don't think wampum or cowrie shells had any inherent use value, and they were still used as currency without any central body backing them.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57806423967732212772011-06-25T18:47:52.555-04:002011-06-25T18:47:52.555-04:00@Reverance: I dig your comments about currency in ...@Reverance: I dig your comments about currency in GW, but remember that the rules were written in 1978 when you sweat the authors about not thinking of virtual money.<br /><br />Also: Androids do <i>not</i> operate off broadcast power.Duglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04952607750940479779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67782274689384981112011-06-25T17:59:28.943-04:002011-06-25T17:59:28.943-04:00Oops. Mea culpae. I had forgotten that standard ...Oops. Mea culpae. I had forgotten that standard Androids are considered "monsters" not "robots." [Even if they do operate off broadcast power and have extensive implanted prosthetics/cybernetics.]Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47094428524824368572011-06-25T17:31:08.326-04:002011-06-25T17:31:08.326-04:00Well the really nice thing about an indestructible...Well the really nice thing about an indestructible currency where no one possesses the capability to make any more, is a relatively stable economy with very little inflationary pressure.<br /><br />Of course there will be fluctuations in the price of things as the harvests vary, and caches of oldtech are discovered, but you've actually got the situation that has held throughout history (at least until last century).<br /><br />Of course, banks can still be set up, and lend money using bank notes, underwritten by their reserves, and may even buy and sell domars amongst themselves. But if the bank can't redeem the promissory notes, it crashes (resulting in people losing their savings).<br /><br />All that is required is the agreement that this will be an accepted medium of exchange. It needs to be difficult to forge, and the supply of it should be limited in some manner, so that there are no inflationary surges (such as occurred in Spain when the gold from the New World returned).<br /><br />I'll leave it to the recent economic meltdown as an example that a currency without government backing is actually more stable than one that has government backing. After all, you can trust that it is still worth what it was last night when you wake up this morning. One domar.<br /><br />[Although I will add that the use of virtual money is something that seemed to gave completely escaped the authors. Although that would leave the adventurers unable to discover any lost hoards of domars in the dungeon, and probably need to introduce some other form of usable currency. Or barter, which is messy. Much simpler to postulate a gold piece equivalent.]<br /><br />I had forgotten that there are no androids (synthetic created "humans") in the original Gamma World, as they have always been such a big part of most of the GW campaigns I played in.Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.com