tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post2749051430799956072..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Think of the ChildrenJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7417120755931470292011-11-20T19:53:25.520-05:002011-11-20T19:53:25.520-05:00Is it just me, or do I sense certain parallels wit...<i>Is it just me, or do I sense certain parallels with D&D's history Oo ?</i><br /><br>Just a bit :)James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81934865105770833162011-11-19T19:11:01.995-05:002011-11-19T19:11:01.995-05:00The concerns about violence in comics are interest...The concerns about violence in comics are interesting; growing up in the '70s (aged around 6-8) British comics like Victor and Commando were all war stories with Nazis being gunned down in droves by heroic British Tommies. Then in the '80s (aged ca 9-15) it was 2000 AD, with man-eating dinosaurs, future cops slaughtering 'perps' by the truckload, mutant bounty hunters doing likewise to their prey.<br /><br />I think I always found the lack of killing in American superhero comics slightly baffling and exotic.<br /><br />My 4 year old son loves killing, and relishes having my plastic D&D minis kill each other off, or else his Schleich knights do likewise. I remember being the same way. I do remember finding the propeller scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark disturbing though - the blood spray from an unscene source made way more impact than the exploding heads.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77071727170043488982011-11-19T18:47:33.433-05:002011-11-19T18:47:33.433-05:00'Captain America' was by far the best Supe...'Captain America' was by far the best Superhero movie I've seen. Being set in a more innocent past probably helped a lot.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59330631420226444352011-11-19T09:25:45.570-05:002011-11-19T09:25:45.570-05:00I have a 4 year old daughter myself, James, and ha...I have a 4 year old daughter myself, James, and have faced the same issue repeatedly. Most recently with "Green Lantern," which seemed to be omnipresent there for a while.<br /><br />I agree with many of the sentiments already expressed above. But I would add a couple of nuances. These days, comic books sell so few copies, and substantially all through comic book specialty stores catering to long-time adult fans, that the medium has effectively already died as a form of mass-market entertainment.<br /><br />As a result, we should de-couple the genre (i.e. super heroes) from the medium (comic books). From the perspective of our broader popular culture, the latter is so 'niche-y' now as to be irrelevant to the former, I believe.<br /><br />Why have there been more comic book movies over the last 10 years? Two reasons, I think. The primary reason is the same one George Lucas stated when he made the Star Wars prequels: the CGI technology evolved to the point where the necessary visuals were suddenly economically feasible. <br /><br />Why are they all PG-13? Several people above made the point that that's what the primary audience (teens and young adults) want. I'd only add that foreign markets are a huge driver, too, and the same rationale applies again.dan2448https://www.blogger.com/profile/18231177444509897757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45948875017247090732011-11-18T17:09:55.707-05:002011-11-18T17:09:55.707-05:00i'm an elementary school librarian and lifetim...i'm an elementary school librarian and lifetime geek - and i've been ordering all-ages comics for my school for the last few years. a lot of my students want to read comics because they see the movies...and, well - most of the comics are labeled by the publishers as YOUNG ADULT. both major comics companies have kid-friendly imprints. marvel has MARVEL ADVENTURES and DC has DC KIDS. the books are digest sized in order to compete with all the manga that's out there. TOKYOPOP had an all ages imprint also but they shut down their US operations. SCHOLASTIC also has a kid imprint - it's called GRAPHIX - you can check that out here: http://www.scholastic.com/graphix/<br /><br />GRAPHIX doesn't really do superhero stuff - but if you haven't checked out jeff smith's BONE or kazu kibuishi's AMULET you really should - and your kids will probably love it also! <br /><br />there is some really good independent stuff out there like RUNNERS and ATOMIC ROBO but, like the guy above me said - none of this stuff is promoted outside of the educational community - so to find it you need to dig.xwardukexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07431014772708331247noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83926925384222140622011-11-18T16:03:12.675-05:002011-11-18T16:03:12.675-05:00as a former comic book retailer i think the proble...as a former comic book retailer i think the problem is not that the industry has gotten darker, or gritter, it's that the industry does nothing to promote or advertise at that market.<br /><br />all the publishers have a great all ages titles available, but still that vast majority of our clientele is an aging population. so the books majority of the books are geared to an older clientele with more sophisticated tastes. i had maybe one kid under the age of 10 for every 30 regular customers that were mid 20+. i found that i had two customers pools that were the biggest. one was college age kids who were discovering the trade paperback market and the wide diversity found in that and the other was the 40+ hardcore collector. the under 10 crowd probably a percent or less, and this is over a 20 year span.<br /><br />i can't tell you the number of times i've( or heard other retailers voice the same complaint) complained about the publishers, not throwing us a bone and doing some advertising. would it seriously kill them to make a commercial to run during the cartoon on tv, or in the trailers in front of the movies, doing at the very least informing consumers of the 1-800 comic book locator number so folks can find a local shop to read about more of the adventures they just saw. you hear the publishers complain about the dwindling marketplace, but you don't see them trying to let folks know we are out here. they have much deeper coffers for advertising than most struggling shops, and they don't even have to make a full blown commercial, most of us would be happy with a still with the 800 number on it.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12973844370824227282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56186018106001948602011-11-18T14:56:33.146-05:002011-11-18T14:56:33.146-05:00I think part of the comics getting mroe mature is ...I think part of the comics getting mroe mature is that it is a matter of who and how you buy them.<br />We don't let 10 year olds wander down to the general store to buy a comic book these days.<br /><br />For comics to get into the hands of kids these days their parents would need to drive them to a comic shop and purchase them.<br /><br />Kids discover their entertainment via TV now, not by getting the change to see a colorful hero on a rack while mom shops.Baquieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08357103428591599364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45239114733536073062011-11-18T13:06:42.988-05:002011-11-18T13:06:42.988-05:00I know there have been at least a couple of promin...I know there have been at least a couple of prominent comics creators that have pitched all-ages-friendly comics to Marvel and DC and been refused on grounds that the publishers aren't interested in those audiences. I mean, it wasn't even "kiddie stuff" these guys were talking about but just classically done superhero/action comics like they used to publish from the 60s through the mid-80s. Old EC horror comics are more appropriate for kids now than the average Superman or Batman comic.Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14624614486574035692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88412638018326317242011-11-18T11:47:45.735-05:002011-11-18T11:47:45.735-05:00About the pricing of today's comic books: Prin...About the pricing of today's comic books: Printing and publishing is simply not what it was 30 years ago. I am not sure that Disney would be able to charge substancially less for their books in order to make them more "allowance-friendly".<br /><br /><i>Why must every superhero movie be dark and gritty?<br />Mind you, I could ask the same thing about roleplaying games ... </i><br /><br />That is also so true. It's all about PI, image, "street cred", or whatever you'd like to call the industry's (<i>any</i> industry's) reaction towards obsessive behaviour of fans.<br /><br />James of the Underdark Gazette laments that <a href="http://underdarkgazette.blogspot.com/2011/10/can-someone-tell-me-how-white-wolf.html" rel="nofollow">White Wolf dropped the ball</a> regarding the success of Laurell K Hamilton and Jim Butcher. But even before that White Wolf didn't even <i>try</i> to capitalize on the urban fantasy boom started by Harry Potter and Buffy.<br />Maybe they feared an uproar from the oh-so-serious-and-dark WoD fans confronted with a Storyteller-powered "Magical Boarding School" (Mage lite), "Vampire Hunters" (Hunter lite, with sprinkles of Ghostbusters), or Spiderwick-like "Fairyland behind my garden" (Changeling lite).<br /><br />But maybe the main problem is not even the (feared or imagined) fan reaction. Maybe it is that the creators of all our entertainment just don't want to write kid friendly stuff.<br />Case in point: http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/feb/11/martin-amis-brain-injury-write-children<br /><br />Years and years ago I read a quote from a children's books author. It went along the lines of: "It's easy to write for kids: you only have to write better."Greyhawk Knighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06730467399899194610noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26601971154792318892011-11-18T05:34:17.213-05:002011-11-18T05:34:17.213-05:00I'll just say that this got me read up on the ...I'll just say that this got me read up on the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority" rel="nofollow">Comics Code Authority</a> -- and I was surprised to see that it was only this year that DC and Archie comics finally discontinued its use. Seems like that would have been 10 or 20 years ago.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50685040416275372242011-11-18T04:20:21.945-05:002011-11-18T04:20:21.945-05:00The comics seem to have grown up with our generati...The comics seem to have grown up with our generation for sure. The arguments that comics were just as gritty and full of sex and violence in the past is just not true. I got a subscription for each of my boys to a comic of their choice and the material was adult oriented. I think any reader here over 40 knows exactly who comics were aimed at and what the limits on violence and sex, to use two examples, were back then. A great parody of the whole change in comic books and Superhero movies, in my opinion, is the movie Kick Ass. It takes the metamorphosis of the superhero into adult entertainment completely over the top to hilarious result. I can't see how anyone who actually grew up reading superhero comics and watching superhero shows and movies could argue against your premise. I personally think its a shame because a lot of what they do in the movies seems like nothing more than gratuitous violence. The pencil in the eye scene in the last Barman movie immediately comes to mind. The added mindless violence is pervasive in all kinds of entertainment, though. And, in my opinion, just as unnecessary. Finally, Captain America WAS more kid friendly, and a great summer popcorn movie to boot.Scheyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05583635395481079327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63918085178973043712011-11-18T04:09:33.461-05:002011-11-18T04:09:33.461-05:00@Gavin:
"They don't even know how to mar...@Gavin:<br /><br />"They don't even know how to market to kids anymore."<br /><br />I think the problem is a lot more fundamental: Things like the Ultimate Universe and the DC Reboot are basically a way for the comic industry to say: "Continuity is bad! It keeps new readers away!"<br /><br />If continuity is the problem, then they won't solve it by creating a new Universe, since that one is already starting to develop a continuity.<br />In an ironic twist, it's the normal Marvel universe with its decades of continuity that would be easier for new readers to get into, since THAT universe keeps a certain status quo. The Ultimate Universe hower is completely unrecognizable for new readers, with several well-known characters eiher dead or having turned into traitors.<br /><br />Is it just me, or do I sense certain parallels with D&D's history Oo ?Doreshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06287649794589606798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-13020629138762152572011-11-18T02:23:09.741-05:002011-11-18T02:23:09.741-05:00Have you tried the last version of Blue Beetle (Ja...Have you tried the last version of Blue Beetle (Jamie Reyes)? I think it's one of the few comic books which could be enjoyed by kids, teens and adults alike. I personally find all the grim and gritty stuff usually marketed as adult very boring and juvenile, but then as Keith Giffen would say comics today are marketed to a very specific crowd... (To me, the same goes for a certain kind of fantasy which is the most popular today, say, Martin.)Space Coyotehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08853149586005897172noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85864790624957692722011-11-17T23:35:37.820-05:002011-11-17T23:35:37.820-05:00It's all about money! Parents are not the stro...It's all about money! Parents are not the strongest purchasers of comic books or movie tickets. If they were, you'd see more superhero things aimed at children. I would say you can either accept that most fare out there is rated PG-13, or you could be prepared to allow your younger kids to watch "scarier" or more "intense" movies. <br /><br />As a personal anecdote, when my parents took me to see 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' when I was 5 years old, my mom tried to cover my eyes when the Nazis were melting because she thought it would give me nightmares and I punched her because in my mind that was the best part of the film. To this day I can't watch that film or 'Temple of Doom' without shaking my head about the hysteria of overprotective parents.Patrick Mallahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04906639025904535922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22797054459175971712011-11-17T20:17:06.220-05:002011-11-17T20:17:06.220-05:00Someone brought up the Marvel Ultimate line and th...Someone brought up the Marvel Ultimate line and that is the way things go wrong with the industry. The whole original intention of the first boor in the line, Ultimate Spider-Man, was to bring new and younger readers in because they could get a fresh start with a younger Peter Parker.<br /><br />Then they took the rest of the line and took it all grim and gritty then started killing off people. They don't even know how to market to kids anymore. Kids just have TV and movies these days and that makes me sad.Gavinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07397554099246666778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32670078760098930352011-11-17T20:12:35.852-05:002011-11-17T20:12:35.852-05:00What about Sky High? I enjoyed that movie a lot. W...What about Sky High? I enjoyed that movie a lot. While the main characters are teens, it seems to have been produced for pre-teens as well.Jerryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12518234031222836203noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31921970536755319072011-11-17T18:03:42.609-05:002011-11-17T18:03:42.609-05:00@Bifforama:
Don't you love comic companies? O...@Bifforama:<br /><br />Don't you love comic companies? One of the whole excuses for Spider-Man's "One More Day"-fiasco was that "Kids don't like a married Peter Parker", yet I don't really think the stories got any more kid-friendly after that...<br /><br />@Suburbanbanshee:<br /><br />Or in the case of the DC reboot: Turn long-time, strong-willed female characters into nymphos OoDoreshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06287649794589606798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14268527409022299992011-11-17T17:45:12.371-05:002011-11-17T17:45:12.371-05:00The comics industry also says it wants to attract ...The comics industry also says it wants to attract girls, but then it's all busty, scantily clad chicks sleeping around. Or of course the game of killing off all the long-time female characters in humiliating ways, or turning them into psychopathic villains.<br /><br />DC's new Cartoon Network shorts are doing a thing on Amethyst of Gemworld. It looks like it will be cute. But of course, any girl who uses a search engine will find out about the whole psychopathic villain thing, and all the other storylines gone bad. <br /><br />I love comics; but comics doesn't love comics.Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51136207225112446732011-11-17T17:25:59.141-05:002011-11-17T17:25:59.141-05:00The comic companies don't really seem interest...The comic companies don't really seem interested in attracting kids to the marketplace. As others have said, the prices of comics put them solidly out of the reach of most kids. $4 per issue? How many of those are you going to get per month. They know that kids don't buy comics, so why tailor titles to them?<br /><br />Even Boom Studios, which puts out Disney comics like Cars and The Muppets, charge as much per issue as the major publishers. My son likes to read Sonic comics, but I only get him back issues or digests as the singles are too costly.<br /><br />If companies are only selling to adults with discretionary incomes, the stories will be targeted at that demographic. That is no way to create a marketplace of future consumers, but so be it. If my son only knows Batman from The Brave and The Bold, I'm fine with that.<br /><br />Plus, where do kids see comics these daysBifforamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11724354590585312949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2847410308277656842011-11-17T17:25:26.126-05:002011-11-17T17:25:26.126-05:00@Doresh
That was probably the most succinct descr...@Doresh<br /><br />That was probably the most succinct description of Marvel Ultimates available.<br /><br />Don't even get me started on the whole Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch relationship they had in those books.Coldstreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16140235342917611032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63831470711171754512011-11-17T17:16:09.349-05:002011-11-17T17:16:09.349-05:00The Latest two Batman Films are not 'Batman: B...The Latest two Batman Films are not 'Batman: Brave and the Bold'. I made a prediction a while back that the direction in which this series of films was going was toward a 'bad robin' scenario where 'The Riddler' would be a high intellect master manipulator who would target Bruce Wayne by putting a 16 year old Harlequin in the batman's path where she could kill Alfred (his support mechanism) and paint Bruce publicly as a 'pedophile' so Bruce and Batman are hunted criminals and push him toward an Arkham Confrontation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33179668462508717742011-11-17T16:15:39.901-05:002011-11-17T16:15:39.901-05:00@Christian Lindke:
"Paizo makes great produc...@Christian Lindke:<br /><br />"Paizo makes great products, but they are geared at an older audience. They have modules inspired by films like "Texas Chainsaw Massacre" (a very good adventure BTW), but I wouldn't want those to be the way I introduce rpgs to my twin daughters."<br /><br />I think that depends on the exact adventure. "Crown of the Kobold King" and "Revenge of the Kobold King" can be easily turned into tongue-in-cheek comedy adventures (especially if the titular Kobold King talks like Profion XD).<br />Carnival of Tears? Not so much...<br /><br />What's really weird is the reboot of the DC universe: They claimed they wanted to attract a younger audience, yet a lot of the new comics are full of gore Oo<br />And Marvel isn't better in that regard: As far as I understand it, the Ultimate Universe exist for the sole reason of slowly killing of every single Marvel character in pointless and graphic ways.Doreshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06287649794589606798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-55520936915895283202011-11-17T16:05:12.237-05:002011-11-17T16:05:12.237-05:00Have you ever read the Batman stories published in...Have you ever read the Batman stories published in 1939-1940? Unlike the Batman of the contemporary movies, this Batman had no compunctions against killing people.<br /><br />Or how about the EC Comics from the 1940s and 1950s?<br /><br />I don't agree with the idea that comics should necessarily be "for the children". J. R. R. Tolkien said that children who couldn't handle the dark themes of fairy tales should simply wait until they are older to read fairy tales. I think the same can be said of comics with dark themes.<br /><br />Frankly, I don't think blood, violence, crime, nudity, etc. in comics bothers children (generally speaking) nearly as much as it bothers adults thinking about children reading and seeing such things.<br /><br />For that matter, there is more horrific sex and violence in the biblical book of Judges (for example) than there is in any comic I've ever seen.<br /><br />All of my comments here are not directed at anyone in particular.Geoffrey McKinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00042661843714609025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63259612544866967662011-11-17T15:46:57.704-05:002011-11-17T15:46:57.704-05:00I think it's worth mentioning that before the ...I think it's worth mentioning that before the Comics Code Authority, there was no expectation that comics were supposed to be solely for kids. You could probably even make an argument, albeit weak, that the grittiness is just getting back to where may comics were before the government started meddling.<br /><br />I dunno. I think there is no dearth of children's entertainment these days; how many 24-7 cable channels do they have for kids now? I'm happy to see adult superhero fare, honestly.buzzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06243298798049780695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37702687526766182442011-11-17T15:17:16.870-05:002011-11-17T15:17:16.870-05:00When you say you and your friends were into "...<i>When you say you and your friends were into "jazz music", is that code for smoking weed?</i><br /><br>Well, <i>I</i> was never into jazz music, but several of my friends were. None of them, so far as I know, were into it for any reasons other than actually enjoying the music. So, fair or not, I tend to classify a teenage liking for jazz as a geeky pastime.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.com