tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post329827491754573035..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Random Roll: DMG, p. 87James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28789734875704714862021-05-01T11:21:16.832-04:002021-05-01T11:21:16.832-04:00I don't know how extensive your gaming experie...I don't know how extensive your gaming experience with non-D&D systems is, but I've seen "this" happen (by which I assume you mean a world seeming to build itself through long-term play) in several World of Darkness campaigns, Edge of the Empire, GURPS, and (per a friend's report, at least) even BESM! And on the other side of the coin, I've seen multiple D&D campaigns die on the vine after a number of sessions that can be counted on one hand.<br /><br />One suspects that your problems here are simply statistics and sampling bias: D&D fills a disproportionate share of the TTRPG market, and readers of a D&D-centric blog are likely to have disproportionally joined new D&D campaigns. It's no different than if a LARPer were to say "Strange that this only seems to happen with Vampire (at least, for me)." ;pConfanityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10361443460498670841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-53476205453364936712021-05-01T08:02:27.204-04:002021-05-01T08:02:27.204-04:00To be fair, the newbie zones in Everquest were als...To be fair, the newbie zones in Everquest were also full of the humans (and other "good guy races") that were most likely to actually lose a fight with a young "monster race" individual. Unless you caught some high level PC slumming the weakest baddies were more likely to get kills there than anywhere else - so it was kind of a newbie zone for both sides, yeah? Very sporting of everyone involved, albeit a bit on the "tough love" side of child-rearing. Dick McGeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14521293874696659063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67164258450536892432021-04-30T15:55:33.747-04:002021-04-30T15:55:33.747-04:00Remember also that in the Inhabited/Patrolled area...Remember also that in the Inhabited/Patrolled areas 1 in 4 encounters will be with a patrol rather than a monster (DMG p. 182), and those won't usually result in combat. Encounters are also less likely in populated areas (DMG p. 47). So although the AD&D wilderness isn't explicitly "leveled" there's definitely a de facto increase in challenge level when the adventurers leave the relative safety of the patrolled areas and venture into the "howling wilderness" beyond. <br /><br />Note also the note on DMG p. 186 that NPC adventurers encountered in the uninhabited wilderness will generally be of 7-10th level, which lines up with my own estimation that the AD&D wilderness is default "balanced" to about 8th or 9th level, and that characters of lower levels should venture out there only in large groups (the way bandits, pilgrims, merchants, etc. do) and should otherwise stick to patrolled areas (the exact extent of which isn't clear, but a 20-50 mile radius around any significant settlement (following the rules for fighter-established freeholds on PH p. 22, and the Territory Development notes on DMG pp. 93-94) seems like a pretty reasonable rule of thumb).Trenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01889179660165006042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90259524153486911312021-04-30T12:26:38.715-04:002021-04-30T12:26:38.715-04:00To an extent the AD&D wilderness encounter tab...To an extent the AD&D wilderness encounter tables are leveled, though only on three levels: "City/Town," (DMG p. 191) "Inhabited/Patrolled" (DMG p. 184) and "Uninhabited/Wilderness" (DMG p. 186) which essentially breaks down to "Civilized," "Borderlands," and "Wilds." <br /><br />I've never done a breakdown of the relative levels/dangers between the three groupings (which exist only for Temperate/Subtropical, everything else is considered "Uninhabited/Wilderness"), but at a glance, the "Wilds" are clearly more dangerous than the "Borderlands," which are clearly more dangerous than the "Civilized" regions.James Mishlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03510782553325944558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34397289214327575092021-04-30T10:53:50.815-04:002021-04-30T10:53:50.815-04:00it may be that Gygax considered the "Leveled&...it may be that Gygax considered the "Leveled" wilderness to be obvious. I always did.<br /><br />on that note, we used to make fun of Everquest (my first experience with this) "Well, time to drop our tribe's youngest near the human settlements, so the humans don't have to face tough creatures when learning how to axe things...."Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872338936249305301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41684895410592431412021-04-30T10:47:08.072-04:002021-04-30T10:47:08.072-04:00Even with a road (or river) network the areas betw...Even with a road (or river) network the areas between settlements might plausibly be much more dangerous, and the exact degree and type of danger might vary over time or with campaign events. For ex, if a war breaks out in an area the usual troops who patrol the roads might be largely absent, resulting in more monsters encroaching - or enemy troops, for that matter. Even the end of a war might see a big rise in banditry as suddenly-unemployed soldiers fend for themselves. <br /><br />Or maybe the PCs do something that effects encounters in the area. Stir up trouble by killing a goblin king and suddenly they start raiding again, or maybe the survivors flee the region instead and things are safer for a time - until something worse moves into the void they left behind. Anger a dragon and maybe it starts attacking villages and travellers and suddenly nowhere is safe from it when it used to stick to the area near its lair - but maybe it's now easier to loot its hoard while its out and about?Dick McGeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14521293874696659063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75682141663265430072021-04-30T10:35:31.222-04:002021-04-30T10:35:31.222-04:00I've considered a leveled wilderness in the pa...I've considered a leveled wilderness in the past but it never seemed feasible. Ben Robbins's West Marches though makes leveled wilderness one of its features.<br /><br />I think one thing that made it tricky for me is the settings (or at least maps) I was using all had settlements sprinkled all over the place. If you have settlements with roads connecting, that all qualifies as "settled area" that should be lower power level (though some settlements could be in more dangerous areas). The West Marches idea of having just one town and the area of play is all wilderness makes this idea much easier.Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15855679156477779666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38493838736118408922021-04-30T09:12:03.826-04:002021-04-30T09:12:03.826-04:00More unearthed treasures from deep within the fath...More unearthed treasures from deep within the fathomless DMG.<br /><br />Especially the wilderness model that follows the dungeon structure of ever-increasing risk and reward. Etrimynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12412524174369676893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12323347579811340192021-04-30T09:04:44.032-04:002021-04-30T09:04:44.032-04:00FWIW, I've played in several campaigns over th...FWIW, I've played in several campaigns over the years where wilderness areas were divided into a variety of broad types (eg desert, badlands, forest, swamplands) each with their own unique encounters chart, and modifiers applied to rolls on those charts based on how far away (in terms of travel time) from the nearest settlement you were. They were (I think) house rules in each case, but IIRC one GM said he'd gotten the basic idea from a magazine article.<br /><br />Seemed to work pretty well, the "distance from town" mods kept you from running into implausibly large and deadly critters in the "newbie zones" and made some legendary adventure sites almost impossible to reach via conventional modes of travel. <br /><br />I mean, yeah, you could theoretically hike through the Valley of the Shades to reach the the Great Necromancer's Gate, but the random encounters with roaming legions of undead spirits were more dangerous by far than the actual dungeon at the Gate would be. That one was pretty much a "fly, teleport, or die" thing as I recall. Dick McGeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14521293874696659063noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91590689652427872822021-04-30T08:38:05.233-04:002021-04-30T08:38:05.233-04:00Some of Gary's best advice for DMs anywhere, I...Some of Gary's best advice for DMs anywhere, I've stuck pretty close to thus method my whole life, and it is the exact advice I give to all starting DMs.James Mishlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03510782553325944558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89158439531612771862021-04-30T01:18:45.742-04:002021-04-30T01:18:45.742-04:00Yeah. Strange that this only seems to happen with ...Yeah. Strange that this only seems to happen with Dungeons & Dragons (at least, for me).<br />JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03263662621289630246noreply@blogger.com