tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post3625788861388966471..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: The Articles of Dragon: "Without any weapons ..."James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35027826187310465422011-10-29T17:24:59.206-04:002011-10-29T17:24:59.206-04:00I remember Good Hits and Bad Misses. Not the deta...I remember Good Hits and Bad Misses. Not the details, though. Wasn't it the first to bring in weapon breakage? The whole series of critical hit tables that followed, and not just D&D rules, seemed really unworkable. Way too much "Brains pulped and splattered over a wide area" type hits for my tastes. Hit location also seemed to unbalance the game as well. I have very fond memories of my 1st level mage nailing a minotaur twice in the head with thrown daggers and killing him in one round entirely by myself, although after that the DM never used hit location rules again. Eventually I chose for hit location and critical hits as flavor text, w/ or w/o game effects, based on the damage roll. Something like the "impale" roll, where 1/5 of your to hit % or less gives you double damage, or full damage plus rolled damage, is enough mechanics for me.Rolling Thunderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02415512546671443634noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68989646766805562422011-10-23T23:48:48.483-04:002011-10-23T23:48:48.483-04:00"During our escape we were surprised to disco...<i>"During our escape we were surprised to discover that we seemed much better off trying to grapple and overbear the jailors than fight them with improvised weapons."</i><br /><br />And that may be the origin of the KoDT "overbearing" rule stories. (Which, as I recall, ended in BA's campaign being destroyed -- again.)Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89337300388053986512011-10-23T23:46:47.154-04:002011-10-23T23:46:47.154-04:00I can only remember using the standard 1E unarmed ...I can only remember using the standard 1E unarmed combat rules once or twice. The most memorable occasion was when our party ended up being taken prisoner by an enemy wizard and thrown into his dungeon. During our escape we were surprised to discover that we seemed much better off trying to grapple and overbear the jailors than fight them with improvised weapons.John B. McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03351872533598285189noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46592882094406855562011-10-20T22:42:13.377-04:002011-10-20T22:42:13.377-04:00Thanks UWSguy. I looked up those rules on muleabid...Thanks UWSguy. I looked up those rules on muleabides and they are perfect for my new campaign!bholmeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04553614846487341510noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82733174055711448122011-10-20T16:22:44.845-04:002011-10-20T16:22:44.845-04:00I'm pretty sure I once saw Gygax say something...I'm pretty sure I once saw Gygax say something like, "I included those rules in the DMG in a moment of weakness for pointy-headed simulationists who demanded it". But then I think I've seen him say that about <i>all</i> of those systems mentioned above, actually. :-)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8018601584468493992011-10-20T13:55:42.254-04:002011-10-20T13:55:42.254-04:00Thanks! Among the many strengths of this blog, is...Thanks! Among the many strengths of this blog, is the fact that your readers are treated like “valued customers.” I’ve never seen you adopt a “this is my blog and I’ll do what I want” attitude, except when the comments become deliberately vicious, personal and offensive to other readers. (And this is rare, due in part, I think, to your good example.)Brian (brian_cooper at hotmail d o t com)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02805168206752602148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71288311010146256872011-10-20T13:55:23.039-04:002011-10-20T13:55:23.039-04:00I'd have to agree with Brian's post: witho...I'd have to agree with Brian's post: without any 'meat' these kinds of posts fall flat for me. A brief summary of the "simple, workable rules" would give us, the readers, a little more perspective on why they're an improvement compared with the 1e DMG rules.<br /><br />I don't have the time to track down 30-year-old copies of Dragon to discover these gems of the 'golden age' of D&D. That's part of the reason why I read this blog.KPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18374233546533225028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31639890019818825752011-10-20T09:45:16.031-04:002011-10-20T09:45:16.031-04:00I would like to request a little more "meat o...<i>I would like to request a little more "meat on the bone,"</i><br /><br>I'll see what I can do. The main issue is one of time. I often write these posts well in advance when I have spare moments, which is why some are more detailed than others. But it's a reasonable suggestion and I'll make an effort to address it in future posts.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2417850418553354272011-10-20T09:43:27.894-04:002011-10-20T09:43:27.894-04:00Every time I look at that original unarmed combat ...<i>Every time I look at that original unarmed combat system I wonder what the hell Gary Gygax was thinking.</i><br /><br>I don't know this for a fact, but it's quite possible that the unarmed combat system, like many other oddities in <i>AD&D</i>, originated not with Gygax himself but with someone else at TSR, as, for example, psionics did. That doesn't exculpate Gary from including the rules in he first place, mind you, but I do think it plausible that he wasn't the ultimate source of these rules.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-5104316791407147012011-10-20T09:40:52.982-04:002011-10-20T09:40:52.982-04:00Which Dragon had those critical tables you mention...<i>Which Dragon had those critical tables you mentioned? I love critical tables! :)</i><br /><br>They were from issue #39 (July 1980) in an article called "Good Hits & Bad Misses" by Carl Parlagreco. I never owned that issue myself. I got a photocopy of the article from one of the older guys and carried it around with me for years afterward.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89583501857567703312011-10-20T09:33:27.167-04:002011-10-20T09:33:27.167-04:00Hi James-- for these "Articles of Dragon"...Hi James-- for these "Articles of Dragon" posts, I would like to request a little more "meat on the bone," in the way of examples of what, in this case, what Meyers rules were. Did you use a d20 to see if you hit? Did it do real damage or temporary damage? How did the rules address unarmed vs. armed? Did it let you handle those "we just all tackle the wizard" situations? Thanks for all you do-- including giving the time of day to freeloading ingrates.Brian (brian_cooper at hotmail d o t com)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02805168206752602148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41098581512810929772011-10-20T09:21:30.492-04:002011-10-20T09:21:30.492-04:00We never used this or the original unarmed combat ...We never used this or the original unarmed combat rules. I never understood why (even to this day) D&D has an abstract armed combat system but a simulationist unarmed one. Really makes no sense. Why, in a game where you regularly fight dragons, oozes and giants, with magic spells and weapons, do you need a simulationist grappling system at all? <br /><br />I can hand-wave how a human being can create a missile of "force" out of thin air and strike any target 100% accurately with it but I need a detailed and intricate system to simulate a punch to the face? Crazy.cibethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16815626047653230637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64212992536550793972011-10-20T08:49:45.679-04:002011-10-20T08:49:45.679-04:00I don't recall this article (we had very few u...I don't recall this article (we had very few unarmed combats, so there was little call for it), but we did make use of the Weapon vs. AC and spell component rules.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43768489098500754882011-10-20T08:38:00.693-04:002011-10-20T08:38:00.693-04:00Ugh, we used the AD&D stuff as written. Probab...Ugh, we used the AD&D stuff as written. Probably with many mistakes, but we used it. I remember the game would grind to a near-halt when anyone tried to punch someone or grab someone, so we rarely tried to do it.<br /><br />Every time I look at that original unarmed combat system I wonder what the hell Gary Gygax was thinking. It's hideously complex and it doesn't work that well. At least the "roll on a table to see what you do" approach in Boot Hill and Gangbusters (where you could fight Dirty or Clean, with benefits and downsides to each) was *fun.* I can't say that about the DMG system.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59929379635951867332011-10-20T08:07:06.790-04:002011-10-20T08:07:06.790-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Sic Gloriahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18338412502207631437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-13905270112344972452011-10-20T07:46:13.393-04:002011-10-20T07:46:13.393-04:00I loved that issue of Dragon. So many awesome weap...I loved that issue of Dragon. So many awesome weapons. I remember pouring over this issue again and again. Thanks for the trip down memory lane.Tetsubohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00339621610619347842noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52804820160082009872011-10-20T05:59:51.750-04:002011-10-20T05:59:51.750-04:00Which Dragon had those critical tables you mention...Which Dragon had those critical tables you mentioned? I love critical tables! :)Tamás Illéshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11415717108941674663noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87496844604312169112011-10-20T03:21:13.344-04:002011-10-20T03:21:13.344-04:00The only sub-system I ever used was components for...The only sub-system I ever used was components for spells.artikidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17474295473142339717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78483595139732073022011-10-20T01:57:15.960-04:002011-10-20T01:57:15.960-04:00I got a kick out of this - we actually used to use...I got a kick out of this - we actually used to use the Weapon +vs Armor table :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08275471098088646672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52816954196386780502011-10-20T00:14:11.479-04:002011-10-20T00:14:11.479-04:00Best grappling rules hands down is by one of the g...Best grappling rules hands down is by one of the guys over at the mule abides. Hands down.UWS guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01277557128674527225noreply@blogger.com