tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post3783562550400468682..comments2024-03-19T03:02:38.228-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Beauty in DecayJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18832603448991227972012-10-14T10:20:32.404-04:002012-10-14T10:20:32.404-04:00Despite the arguing of historians over whether the...Despite the arguing of historians over whether the term Dark Age is appropriate, there's no doubt that writers at the time thought they were living in the autumn of the world. Gregory the Great, for example, writing in the aftermath of the Gothic Wars, wrote that civilization was in decline and that the end of the world must be soon. The people living in Western Europe in the early Middle Ages were very much aware of the ruins of the ancient world all around them, even if they projected their own ideas on the relics of the Roman past.Josh Clementnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20641423394366859082009-11-01T14:31:47.165-05:002009-11-01T14:31:47.165-05:00Well, amongst their other frightful characteristic...Well, amongst their other frightful characteristics, the Nazis were avid historical revisionists and book burners. ;)<br /><br />What Churchill had in mind I could not guess without seeing the passage in question, but "Dark Age", much like "Crusade" (as famously made use of by Eisenhower), is a very evocative sort of term.<br /><br />Technically, though, the term refers to the difficulty of "seeing" what happened during that period, or so I understand. it has been a while since I read the articles in question.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646247954542936623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6990426409528196512009-11-01T05:05:46.662-05:002009-11-01T05:05:46.662-05:00Churchill was an historian, and he talked about a ...Churchill was an historian, and he talked about a Nazi-dominated Earth as a potential "New Dark Age" - clearly referring to awfulness rather than lack of knowledge! Obviously the two often go together, though.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24286740355722770812009-10-31T23:31:16.826-04:002009-10-31T23:31:16.826-04:00Apparently, the "Dark Ages" were so name...Apparently, the "Dark Ages" were so named because we lacked any real knowledge of what happened during them, a result of a relative lack of evidence. As I understand it, the information turning up as a result of modern archaeological investigation is what has caused the trend away from the term, rather than an idea of awfulness or whatever.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646247954542936623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50873348991623562522009-10-31T20:00:25.670-04:002009-10-31T20:00:25.670-04:00Spot on post and obviously a lot of us share the s...Spot on post and obviously a lot of us share the same sentiment. I enjoy the night and autumn brings darkness and that tingling chill in the air, giving us the first hint of winter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10082635166513410022009-10-31T07:41:43.521-04:002009-10-31T07:41:43.521-04:00Matthew Johnson:
"Historically, of course, th...Matthew Johnson:<br />"Historically, of course, the notion of "dark ages" is a fiction..."<br /><br />This trope of revisionist historians has never made any sense to me. Lots of cultures have gone through Dark Ages, and Western Europe certainly did. It seems to me to take wilful blindness not to see that. One thing that struck me most forcefully was visiting the British Museum and looking at the artifacts of different epochs; the change from Roman civilisation to the barbarian epoch following is really striking when you compare what they left behind.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87468299396687749682009-10-31T07:37:20.656-04:002009-10-31T07:37:20.656-04:00(A)D&D is an odd beast: its focus on the '...(A)D&D is an odd beast: its focus on the 'ruins of the past' implies an autumnal world, yet its emphasis on the Frontier and driving back Chaos in the Gygaxian works (1e DMG, B2 Keep on the Borderlands) is very strong - the tropes of the classic 'Western' are almost 100% opposed to those of the Dying Earth.<br /><br />Put them together, you can get a sense of rebirth, a new age with new heroes to reclaim the past - a Renaissance of sorts. Like 11th century scholars delving into the musty stacks of the University of Bologna to rediscover the literary treasures of the ancient world, PCs delve into musty dungeons to reclaim the lost magics of the former age - and perhaps begin a new age.<br /><br />Of course it's possible that Decline & Fall is more attractive to our current generation than that which grew up in the relatively optimstic '50s-'60s. It may be we share rather a lot with the pulp writers of the '30s who had seen the suicide-slaughter of the Great War and could sense new disaster on the horizon. After the triumphalism of the '90s, Western power appears past its apogee, there is plenty to indicate we are in an era of Decline, even if Fall may remain a fair ways off.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81720308852660675312009-10-31T07:09:18.710-04:002009-10-31T07:09:18.710-04:00That's Victor Frankl, Man's Search For Mea...That's Victor Frankl, Man's Search For Meaning!Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39646660584785042432009-10-31T07:08:19.844-04:002009-10-31T07:08:19.844-04:00People consider autumn a season of dying because o...People consider autumn a season of dying because of the dying leaves, but this is in error. Leaves are no more alive than hair, skin or nails on an animal body. More appropriately, autumn is season of renewal for nature, while winter is hybernation, rest and marshalling of energy for the next growth season. Think of winter as getting the new running shoes, establishing training routines and doing initial easy workouts before the real training season begins.<br /><br />Human culture associates autumn with dying and winter with death because it is out of synch with environment (has been since the dawn of man, since man had no claws nor fur to survive on isntinct as animals do) and man has been out of synch with his own human nature (thank the centuries of socialization and the urban and industrial culture welive in). Associations of autumn with dying, then is a projection of human emotion on the surrounding world. Just because it is human does not make it any less real though!<br /><br />Victor Frankl wrote in his memoir about survival in a concentration camp, Man's Search For Living, about people choosing to die. He puts it down to a conscious choice. People would sit down on their bunk, smoke up all of their remaining tobacco, eat all of their bread ration at once, enjoy life in a decadent pleasure, and be dead in a couple of days. Of course, they did not "choose" to die, nor would many have made that choice if they were told of the consequences. Instead, people automatically were conditioned to accept defeat, with autumnal notions.<br /><br />Happy Birthday, James!Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68391590705229152009-10-31T00:11:08.390-04:002009-10-31T00:11:08.390-04:00It makes perfect sense, James. :)It makes perfect sense, James. :)Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63656466752566990792009-10-30T22:38:53.620-04:002009-10-30T22:38:53.620-04:00Me, too. There's a reason I got married on Hal...Me, too. There's a reason I got married on Halloween.<br /><br />Sometimes I actually think I have summer seasonal depression. :)Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47616979066489119562009-10-30T21:51:10.441-04:002009-10-30T21:51:10.441-04:00I too am an autumn lover. Much like the term "...I too am an autumn lover. Much like the term "twilight", it seems a more magical time, more in tune with nature, a time when one might happen to see faeries in the woods. It is no coincidence that autumn is when we celebrate Halloween - the pagan feat of Samhain (ghosts and faeries are practically the same thing in British folklore).<br /><br />One possible reason why I like the autumnal feel is the call to action - we must act now while the going is good, and our efforts will pay off in the coming winter. It's probably some kind of cultural hangover from harvest time.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06011974487836242987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26042373202673939402009-10-30T21:34:36.755-04:002009-10-30T21:34:36.755-04:00Personally, I like to think of D&D as being ca...Personally, I like to think of D&D as being capable of a wide range of expression-- rising civilizations as well as falling ones. The Keep on the Borderlands, for instance doesn't feel autumnal at all. The Keep itself speaks of humanity confident in its power and its morality. The Caves figure less as a threat to civilization than as a place for brave young men to prove themselves. <br /><br />All the same, another solid, thought-provoking post.Brian (brian_cooper at hotmail d o t com)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02805168206752602148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68323139733459660862009-10-30T19:31:37.130-04:002009-10-30T19:31:37.130-04:00Matthew Johnson - You wrote "Historically, of...Matthew Johnson - You wrote "Historically, of course, the notion of "dark ages" is a fiction"... I have to call that out for sharp disagreement.<br /><br />While for about twenty years there was a surge in revisionist historical work being done in Europe that tried to claim that the "dark ages" were really just "Late Antiquity" and not so bad, there's now accumulating archaeological evidence that, in fact, the Dark Ages of Europe were very dark. <br /><br />One could perhaps *argue* about whether or not Dark Ages are historical, but it's definitely not something one should say is "of course" evident.Restitutor Orbishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05625086532637410710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82116399755683634542009-10-30T19:31:27.786-04:002009-10-30T19:31:27.786-04:00This is probably one of the reasons I'm an Arn...This is probably one of the reasons I'm an Arnesian rather than a Gygaxian. I prefer the Spring game. Most of my D&D campaigns* have been heavily focused on creating stuff out of the wilderness. Although, thinking on it, a proper Arnesian would by more of a Summer person (after all, that's the time when the peasant levies are available for raiding).<br /><br />The stuttered time-frame of the game helped immensely with this, as it allowed players (and even some characters as this method of play encouraged the search for immortality, which was a major theme of the games) to see the changes in the game world, many of which they wrought themselves.<br /><br />I even had characters who actually constructed their own traditional D&D dungeons (for various reasons, such as the hiding of a valuable treasure or to make a really strong stronghold or simply because they wanted one) during the game.<br /><br />But like the physical year, the gaming seasons are cyclical. Spring growth leads to a Summer renaissance, an Autumnal** decline, and a Winter desolation, to be supplanted by new Spring growth. <br /><br />There were remnants of forgotten past civilizations in the wilderness, as well as a history of past civilizations on which the current civilizations were built.<br />But the emphasis was on building the future rather than sacking the past.<br /><br />[* Both my megadungeons are really self-contained environments for that purpose any external environment exists purely to support dungeoneering.]<br /><br />[** Being in an almost exclusively evergreen environment (or rather one where the trees are most likely to be bare in Summer (particularly after a bushfire)) we tend not to use "Fall" as a season.]Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-80596718577632396622009-10-30T19:09:35.569-04:002009-10-30T19:09:35.569-04:00Very interesting post. Why become an adventurer? W...Very interesting post. Why become an adventurer? Why not? It's all going to be over soon anyway right? Go out with some gold and glory! Seize the day! Works for Dying Earth and the Ginger Star among others and seems a pretty standard setting in many of the older Sword and Planet stories.<br /><br />Solid post sir!Joe G Kushnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02454826299896049587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-80126985126874119602009-10-30T18:12:03.584-04:002009-10-30T18:12:03.584-04:00Given that D&D is humanocentric Tolkien is spr...Given that D&D is humanocentric Tolkien is spring not autumn surely, James?<br /><br />Neither would I necessarily have connected dreamlands or cosmic horror with autumn - or /any/ season for that matter - but perspective is personal, I guess; even when that's non-Euclidean. ;)irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6707829726067976602009-10-30T17:06:40.993-04:002009-10-30T17:06:40.993-04:00I liked autumns in Ontario just fine, it was when ...I liked autumns in Ontario just fine, it was when I left that I started to hate them again!<br /><br />Ice cold and pitch black, that's just painful.AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26172186308966554752009-10-30T16:52:13.046-04:002009-10-30T16:52:13.046-04:00Bravo, this is the type of post a 40 year old shou...Bravo, this is the type of post a 40 year old should be producing. ;-)<br /><br />I'm curious what others would say spring, summer and winter campaigns should play like.JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59106671823302580042009-10-30T16:36:13.149-04:002009-10-30T16:36:13.149-04:00I hope this makes some sense to someone other than...<i>I hope this makes some sense to someone other than myself.</i><br /><br />I'll say that this may possibly be the single most brilliant post you've ever made. <br /><br />I'm not sure that fall makes me outright "happy", but it is certainly the most poignant and vibrant season, and in all of the details you're definitely spot-on. <br /><br />Part of it for me is also engaging the literal harvest season (having grown up on a farm, of which some aspects are very sad indeed), a return to the school year, and likewise having my birthday near the start of Autumn (I'll turn 40 next September). So, best wishes on yours, looks like there's lots of hope for the Indian summer.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76375691454693666782009-10-30T16:01:14.181-04:002009-10-30T16:01:14.181-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69748824426161798172009-10-30T16:00:50.467-04:002009-10-30T16:00:50.467-04:00I've gone for the same theme myself in my own ...I've gone for the same theme myself in my own fantasy world. where the sun is dying and the great age of heroic adventure is over and long gone. Maybe that's part of being an old Grognardian! ;-)crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33668482676134842292009-10-30T15:35:37.102-04:002009-10-30T15:35:37.102-04:00Aren't autumnal worlds easier to create than f...Aren't autumnal worlds easier to create than fully functional fantasytopias?M Harold Pagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08949772130509527838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20574912921380699252009-10-30T15:13:29.770-04:002009-10-30T15:13:29.770-04:00Autumn - 1983 Castle Amber
Autumn - 1984 Expeditio...Autumn - 1983 Castle Amber<br />Autumn - 1984 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks<br />Autumn - 1985 Village of Hommlet<br />Autumn - 1986 DragonLance<br />Autumn - 1987 Ravenloft<br />Autumn - 1988 A Spectacuarly Doomed Vault of the Drow<br />Autumn - 1989 Tomb of Horrors - each of us with four PCs apiece, almost like a game of Paranoia. Still ended up in total defeat.<br /><br />I may be mixing some of the chronology, but I have vivid memories of fall weather (and new school years) with those modules.<br /><br />An autumnal game for the autumn of our childhood...Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00851335695807313040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91655727264462757122009-10-30T15:08:02.335-04:002009-10-30T15:08:02.335-04:00I feel the same way about autumn in that it makes ...I feel the same way about autumn in that it makes me happy, and much of that has to do with the fact that here in Southern California autumn signals a shift from 100+ heat to more temperate weather conditions. But I also suspect it's because for me fall is the beginning of the 'holiday season': my birthday is in mid September, and from there we go into Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christms, etc.<br /><br />Oh, and I'm mildly surprised James that you hadn't listed Vance as one of the authors who tap into the autumnal vibe. He's the first that jumped to mindWheggihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08514479185531072412noreply@blogger.com