tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post3932196378225340336..comments2024-03-19T07:56:00.031-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Realms and RemembranceJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8863311175277895412010-03-28T22:32:14.697-04:002010-03-28T22:32:14.697-04:00Sanitizing D&D certainly contributed to its do...Sanitizing D&D certainly contributed to its downfall, however, much they would sanitize...we male gamers always looked for something to smirk about. As our games were an extension our own adolescence for us - festhalls were something that we could read between the lines and make it our own...by that we would populate it with whatever colonized our imagination - which maybe I am unique but in my teen years - that was sex. The thing that put a damper on that behavior was when the rare female gamer would join the fray.<br /><br />So, I think, it is the same today, because games today are so throughly integrated the raunchiness is not so much an effort of game companies sanitizing their games as much as women now playing an active role in society including gaming. Whereas, when this hobby was a boy's game - it reflected that mindset.<br /><br />Another contributing factor, is that as 40 or 30 something...it is perfectly natural to be able to freely talk about sex. Whereas, 30yrs ago, we still finding people f*ck on stage (as in Hair) very distributing - so while maybe some of the founders (led by the artists) were objectively pushing the boundaries...society was equally pushing back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35013869349111875352010-03-27T13:40:48.724-04:002010-03-27T13:40:48.724-04:00Will, I don't follow your comment.
I was addr...Will, I don't follow your comment.<br /><br />I was addressing the Old School gamers who know where Mordenkainen and Robilar came from.<br /><br />They were PCs.<br /><br />Now they are "uber" NPCs in the original old school setting....even back when it was new.king_grifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368298886941669740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7847956494014172292010-03-27T13:36:26.712-04:002010-03-27T13:36:26.712-04:00@Veil, remember, they didn't split the goddess...@Veil, remember, they didn't split the goddess for the Wiccans, they just renamed one of them. Then they split the goddess in order to avoid upsetting the crazy gamer zealots who had maps that showed temples of Tyche.king_grifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368298886941669740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63426629540255912182010-03-27T08:59:53.047-04:002010-03-27T08:59:53.047-04:00JRT - I can only speak for myself, but when Greenw...JRT - I can only speak for myself, but when Greenwood comes up, I like to make fun of EVERYTHING - appearance, creepy behavior, shitcan writing, and boring attention to cliche on a grand scale. <br /><br /><i>I knew he was a legend. But you never said he was a BORING legend!</i>Kellrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18149255116106626419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63106104765493161782010-03-27T06:19:55.119-04:002010-03-27T06:19:55.119-04:00> hey are WAY more angsty teenage girls
I thi...> hey are WAY more angsty teenage girls <br /><br />I think teenage girls are now vampires, not witches :-pVeilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10629417071588107833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67603911541773545932010-03-27T05:44:39.125-04:002010-03-27T05:44:39.125-04:00To many people, RPG are GAMES, GAMES are for KIDS ...To many people, RPG are GAMES, GAMES are for KIDS and thus, RPG are for KIDS.<br /><br />That statement is wrong, of course, but this is a convenient shortcut.<br /><br />Someday, TSR noticed their customers were mainly teenagers, so they adapted their products to their much younger audience. What? Game companies are here to make money, after all...<br /><br />So they "sanitized" their game.<br /><br />Sanitized from anything close to sensuality or sexuality, but of course, not from any kind of violence. <br /><br />Someone said "hypocrisy"? <br /><br />As Delta wrote, a poll would be interesting...Le Baronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10243853568677750451noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19935110096348105052010-03-27T05:41:09.962-04:002010-03-27T05:41:09.962-04:00"Mordenkainen anyone? Robilar?"
EGG is ..."Mordenkainen anyone? Robilar?"<br /><br />EGG is dead, so I suppose you should be addressing this question to Rob Kuntz? Or were you a part of this campaign?Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77702664895344025272010-03-27T05:35:59.544-04:002010-03-27T05:35:59.544-04:00"I'm less upset over something like chang..."I'm less upset over something like changing a whore house into an adventurer's clubhouse than to learn that they went as far as creating two new goddess rather than upsetting the wiccan population of American (all 23 of them)"<br /><br />Be fair now: They are WAY more angsty teenage girls between 14 and 16 than that. Maybe even <i>thousands</i>. :)Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88442212580645955892010-03-27T04:42:22.864-04:002010-03-27T04:42:22.864-04:00Maybe I'm alone in thinking the following:
I&...Maybe I'm alone in thinking the following:<br /><br />I'm less upset over something like changing a whore house into an adventurer's clubhouse than to learn that they went as far as creating two new goddess rather than upsetting the wiccan population of American (all 23 of them).<br /><br />I've also never understood how some people get all upset over devils and demons being turned into planar aliens, but don't care that Lizardman got changed into Lizardfolk. I would think all forms of PC would be equally annoying.<br /><br />I'm also surprised that they decided to have a merchant republic be the spot where DM's could drop their campaign in, and not an obvious place like Cormyr which is your typical king and kingdom place.Veilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10629417071588107833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-53597819601890542662010-03-27T04:19:32.900-04:002010-03-27T04:19:32.900-04:00Hey guys, lets all take a step back here okay? Rel...Hey guys, lets all take a step back here okay? Relax, we're on the same team.<br /><br />Regarding Ed's uber NPCs, I read the first of his "prequel" novels of the Knights of Myth Drannor 'Swords of Eveningstar'. It wasn't good. But that's beside the point, I don't value Ed for his novels, I value him for his creations. Those very same NPCs who give the Realms LIFE. They and their connections and histories have always evoked the Realms as REAL to me.<br /><br />Anyway, after I read this book (in which he uses characters up to and including the King of Cormyr in the same action scenes, and on a par with, the "low level" PCs), I had an epiphany. Ed's home campaign is narration heavy, he is telling a story. Whether you agree with that style or not, his players LOVE it, so good for them. But I think he didn't set NPC levels, and when asked to, he set them based on how RENOWNED a character was for his role. So, the King was a 20th level cavalier! But he wasn't much more effective in a fight than Ed's 1st level PCs.<br /><br />Anyway, sorry....long winded and a bit rambling. Point is that I think its something of an "accident" that some of his NPCs are "uber".<br /><br />And as far as setting Khelben 10 levels higher than the PCs, one must remember that his earlier home game involved the 'Company of Crazed Venturers'. They were all eventually high level (unlike the Knights), and they were wild and wooly, and they eventually DID take over his game. They ARE some of the uber NPCs. How Old School is that. Mordenkainen anyone? Robilar?king_grifhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06368298886941669740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15972816580758204552010-03-27T04:12:56.987-04:002010-03-27T04:12:56.987-04:00I never really noticed the absence of brothels in ...I never really noticed the absence of brothels in Forgotten Realms. I think we just assumed that they're there but for some prudence reason not mentioned.<br /><br />I was something like 15-18 years old when I mostly played in the Realms, so I don't think they would've blown my mind. Anyway we were using the RuneQuest city encounter book (which name escapes me at the moment) to provide color even in AD&D, and it had some prostitute encounters, so we had them there anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14420882866559835952010-03-27T03:40:20.747-04:002010-03-27T03:40:20.747-04:00"Based on his more riske' interviews and ..."Based on his more riske' interviews and the many accounts of fans unfortunate enough to attract him, it doesn't seem unfair at all for this gross cliche to come to mind when Greenwood's name is mentioned."<br /><br />Links? Cmon if you are just gonna make up something, at least give it some zing. Did he try to flash the interviewer? Did he honk a fan's boob? Try the motorboat? Leer at someone after a they made a statement and intone "That's what SHE said!" really loud? Most of the guys commenting on Ed's "perviness" want us to think he did something so awful that words can't describe it, because they never do...describe it, that is.<br /><br />Mind you (like Will) these are the same guys that think Zak's porn show is "Teh roxxors!"Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34693576247976509782010-03-27T03:30:00.380-04:002010-03-27T03:30:00.380-04:00"...so there's not really a point, is the..."...so there's not really a point, is there? You win again!"<br /><br />Don't worry, I'll try and be humble about it.Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-86746296976425742582010-03-27T03:28:24.453-04:002010-03-27T03:28:24.453-04:00Replying, you have some clueless smartass using a ...Replying, you have some clueless smartass using a variation of "Well, in my game..." as if the original gripe had anything at all to do with any one gamer's specific campaign, which it manifestly didn't."<br /><br />Will, the next time one of your replies make sense will be the first...Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57201088179593949672010-03-27T01:46:04.011-04:002010-03-27T01:46:04.011-04:00"So you and James have NEVER heard anyone EVE..."So you and James have NEVER heard anyone EVER throw a ridiculous temper tantrum about renamed Devils and Demons? Have you just got internet access? Or did you just start gaming, like, a year ago? Please."<br /><br />I'd love to respond to your statement, Badmike, but I can already feel the froth beginning to form at the corners of my mouth, and that means I'm just going to say the same thing over and over again with no counter to your very reasonable argument, so there's not really a point, is there? You win again!TyBannermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13241483332119936529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30773651890726353712010-03-27T00:19:22.241-04:002010-03-27T00:19:22.241-04:00Goofy haircut and pervy rumors aside, I wish Gree...Goofy haircut and pervy rumors aside, I wish Greenwood would just abandon the Realms and start something new; make a world closer to his own ideas and let it spill out with a mature rating on the cover. These days, it's the in-thing to have sex and violence in a fantasy setting( i.e. Westeros).crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52200462639116623812010-03-27T00:02:36.331-04:002010-03-27T00:02:36.331-04:00"Personally, I avoid any setting that overtly..."Personally, I avoid any setting that overtly uses things like brothels, orgies and openly debased acts. Especially since I usually game with my kids and a younger crowd but also it is something I just don't want to see in a game."<br /><br />I guess for me it comes down to the fact that this has always, <i>always</i>, smacked at least a little of the DM describing it getting off a bit at the table at my expense, which is unwelcome to say the least.<br /><br />I mean, mob polyamorous tranny hot oil orgies (masks optional) might well be the <i>only</i> thing you do when you're not running this game for me, but please, PLEASE, still try to keep the two separate, because I'm just not comfortable being part of your sexuality.<br /><br />Based on his more riske' interviews and the many accounts of fans unfortunate enough to attract him, it doesn't seem unfair at all for this gross cliche to come to mind when Greenwood's name is mentioned.<br /><br />That all being said, <a href="http://garysentus.blogspot.com/2009/11/on-forgotten-realms.html" rel="nofollow">I love some of his work</a>.Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71560795191717377342010-03-26T23:55:36.376-04:002010-03-26T23:55:36.376-04:00"So you and James have NEVER heard anyone EVE..."So you and James have NEVER heard anyone EVER throw a ridiculous temper tantrum about renamed Devils and Demons? Have you just got internet access? Or did you just start gaming, like, a year ago? Please."<br /><br />Did it ever occur to you that your original example is just plain dumb?<br /><br />You have somebody complaining about a corporation's editorial practices and its effect on the character and quality of that corporation's creative output.<br /><br />Replying, you have some clueless smartass using a variation of "Well, in my game..." <i>as if the original gripe had anything at all to do with any one gamer's specific campaign, <b>which it manifestly didn't.</b></i><br /><br />I'd be annoyed, too, if the person I was speaking to was, either through absolute pig ignorance or pathetic desire to look snarky-cool, arrogantly tossing out retorts to arguments I never even made.Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1707136758933389222010-03-26T23:38:18.583-04:002010-03-26T23:38:18.583-04:00Personally, I avoid any setting that overtly uses ...Personally, I avoid any setting that overtly uses things like brothels, orgies and openly debased acts. Especially since I usually game with my kids and a younger crowd but also it is something I just don't want to see in a game.Joshua Sherrerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308286154275114804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65228025721045261102010-03-26T23:04:50.255-04:002010-03-26T23:04:50.255-04:00"Oh, those old schoolers, forever frothing at..."Oh, those old schoolers, forever frothing at the mouths, saying the same imbecilic things over and over again while people make eminently reasonable statements...."<br /><br />So you and James have NEVER heard anyone EVER throw a ridiculous temper tantrum about renamed Devils and Demons? Have you just got internet access? Or did you just start gaming, like, a year ago? Please.Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-55645618360444379852010-03-26T22:17:34.087-04:002010-03-26T22:17:34.087-04:00Oh, those old schoolers, forever frothing at the m...Oh, those old schoolers, forever frothing at the mouths, saying the same imbecilic things over and over again while people make eminently reasonable statements in an attempt to sway them from their wrong-headedness. What IS it with the froth, by the way? Couldn't you guys just wipe your mouths every once in a while? I mean really, presentation counts!TyBannermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13241483332119936529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29073896709622614302010-03-26T22:06:26.279-04:002010-03-26T22:06:26.279-04:00Have you ever heard any female gamers describe mee...Have you ever heard any female gamers describe meeting Ed Greenwood? I have and it's kinda creepy.<br /><br />I have nothing but respect for the man as a writer, but from first hand accounts I'd also say he's earned his rep for being a bit pervy.Vigilancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12302020918798504358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73535227563667564202010-03-26T22:05:40.683-04:002010-03-26T22:05:40.683-04:00This also puts a new perspective on EGG's use ...This also puts a new perspective on EGG's use of profanity in the Gord books--something that most of the TSR stories (at least in the 1980s and early 1990s) avoided completely. I notice since the first Gord story appeared in Dragon 100 Gary wasn't afraid to use that kind of language. I wonder if that was his way of rebelling against the more PC moves towards coddling the adolescent. (He toned it down a bit after a while, but I remember never thinking I would ever hear the word "shit" in Dragon until that story).JRThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06028363896728357260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18248262816987017032010-03-26T21:59:39.860-04:002010-03-26T21:59:39.860-04:00The fact that you KNEW that someone would say some...<i>The fact that you KNEW that someone would say something is proof enough WHY someone would say something. He has a reputation as a pervert, plain and simple, and you know it.</i><br /><br />But the only reason I "knew it" is that I've seen other people comment on it on the Internet. The "proof" is just a whole bunch of people who are usually dissing FR in general, usually the same people who like to blame FR for everything from changing the game to pushing Gygax out. <br /><br />From what I've read of the man's articles, novels, etc., I have not seen this, and I still question why people think this of him. I have never seen anything in his penned novels or gaming supplements to make me think otherwise. I've seen more outright sex in other novels like Piers Anthony.<br /><br />It makes me think some of the Greenwood critics are either (a) making fun of the way he looks in real life and/or (b) assuming TSR's making FR NPCs be critical to meta-plots and novels an indication of him being anything from a Mary Sue writer, a egomaniac, or have some psychological weakness. I get really sick of it.JRThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06028363896728357260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-72440732252424517572010-03-26T21:50:48.465-04:002010-03-26T21:50:48.465-04:00I loved the Realms in the Grey Box days and before...I loved the Realms in the Grey Box days and before (I would dutifully photocopy each and every FR article out of Dragon and keep them in a binder). I, too, can't understand the hate. FR is a terrific setting.<br /><br />I've got to wonder, though; who was the Wiccan TSR employee? News to me.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01355324231111953098noreply@blogger.com