tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post4407157587425913063..comments2024-03-28T15:30:09.903-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: Tunnels & TrollsJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17843715996828969552021-08-04T20:20:56.050-04:002021-08-04T20:20:56.050-04:00You really think Gremlins, Pixies, Faeries, and ot...You really think Gremlins, Pixies, Faeries, and other tricksters would have "serious" spell names? You're not reading GOOD fantasy. I like some pulp in my OJ, and Tolkien is dry.Thomas Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12299276196901181075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26590750697795624392011-11-22T11:28:07.851-05:002011-11-22T11:28:07.851-05:00I really don't think it is fair for anyone to ...I really don't think it is fair for anyone to knock a game until they have played it at least a few times. If you haven't played it, you might not know what you are talking about.benbonewillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15968085504557880660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78759345867960536532011-11-22T11:10:33.273-05:002011-11-22T11:10:33.273-05:00I just got a copy of the TnT 5.5 rules a few weeks...I just got a copy of the TnT 5.5 rules a few weeks ago. I think the game is genius. I like simple mechanics and the lighthearted way that the book is written. TnT is not a DnD clone. The game, mechanically, is totally different than DnD. It will be my game of choice in the future. I'll still play ODnD and Swords and Wizardry, but I primarily play with my wife and kids. They don't care for overly complicated mechanics. Now that I'm older I don't have time for more complicated games. The whole point of playing a game is to have fun. This game is fun to me and mine. Don't knock the rules until you have actually played the game. They didn't make sense to me at first because I've mainly played DnD and it's derivatives. The rules in TnT are elegant in their simplicity.benbonewillyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15968085504557880660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78561284365051014762011-09-21T15:20:53.553-04:002011-09-21T15:20:53.553-04:00My older brother bought a copy back in '79. 5...My older brother bought a copy back in '79. 5th edition. I was 14 or 15 back then.<br /><br />I recall being excited and amazed when I learned there was another RPG other then D&D/AD&D out there.<br /><br />I read the book from cover to cover. Several times.<br /><br />I remember for every thing I thought it did better then D&D/AD&D, there was some aspect I just could not get past.<br /><br />The spell names were one of them.<br /><br />I only attempted a serious game of it one.<br /><br />Some one else above claimed it is a "parody" of D&D- I only wish it were true.<br /><br />It'd be my game of choice today.<br /><br />What it is is the first "Clone" of D&D, one written by a guy who wasn't as serious about the hobby as Gygax....Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06644149589852045141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81392903057919550862011-09-21T15:13:05.633-04:002011-09-21T15:13:05.633-04:00If it were a parody of D&D I'd play it in ...If it were a parody of D&D I'd play it in a heart beat.<br /><br />Sadly it isn't.<br /><br />It's a clone of sorts.<br /><br /> The Author states in the intro he found D&D to complicated. So he wrote his own rules.<br /><br />It's been a long time since I read them, but there was something fun about it. Maybe because it was he isn't a serious about these games as Gygax was.<br /><br /><br />There is certainly a tongue in cheek attitude to the game.<br /><br />Rules wise it didn't do anything for me. I already had one game about dungeon crawling, killing monsters and taking their stuff. T&T might have handle it all differently. But the rules never struck me as being sufficiently better.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06644149589852045141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-92068015094190416772010-02-18T20:44:04.765-05:002010-02-18T20:44:04.765-05:00Well; if silly spell names really bother you; ther...Well; if silly spell names really bother you; there are a couple of T&T variants up on the trollbridge forum that might fit the bill perfectly - In fact I use a lot of the names in my current 5E+ game (basically 5th edition with spite damage and a POW stat added)<br /><br />the first is based on First Edition T&T:<br />The "Wild Lands" Players Handbook:<br />IMO particularly useful in that it lists the original T&T spell name in parenthesis next to the new one:<br /><br />http://www.mattiaswikstrom.net/rpg/bin/wild_lands_phb.pdf<br /><br />and another very cool version based on 4th edition T&T:<br /><br />http://sites.google.com/site/thedarkisles/pdf-files/4thEditionMk32.pdf?attredirects=0bdfiscushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09620898370988881573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30044205075802097942009-12-16T00:27:10.055-05:002009-12-16T00:27:10.055-05:00I still have my copy, along with a good number of ...I still have my copy, along with a good number of modules. I think I even picked up Monsters! Monsters! at some point, but don't think I really read it. We mostly played the solos, but I did run a short adventure at some point. I enjoyed the game, although I didn't much like the spell names. I always wanted more details on the campaign world. Well, thanks all for the fond memories!Baron Greystonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16636292202674906870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43760301912332213492009-12-04T03:39:04.701-05:002009-12-04T03:39:04.701-05:00Its interesting how now everyone is a chattin abou...Its interesting how now everyone is a chattin about T&T. Its such a clever simple and effective ruleset!<br /><br />I'd say more but between my blog and comments I have recently made elsewhere I am sort of commented out about how great the game really is.Captain Rufushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00296697477771399357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18903174671038073652009-12-03T14:27:12.951-05:002009-12-03T14:27:12.951-05:00Fun At The Library Said: "Or, you might try t...Fun At The Library Said: "Or, you might try talking to that troll." <br /><br />Or "take a troll to lunch." <br /><br />It is a comment on later editions of D&D how trolls were made legitimate targets of player scorn and abuse. I think it's pretty clear that in the 70s, game creators had a different vision of how to interact with this wrongly maligned - but really quite friendly - race.brasspenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00740202895575678193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11085954535645420222009-12-03T14:25:10.600-05:002009-12-03T14:25:10.600-05:00I really must read T&T sometime, I have a thin...I really must read T&T sometime, I have a thing for silly games.Rachel Ghoulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765944479141792643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52111359097673572412009-12-03T13:56:50.647-05:002009-12-03T13:56:50.647-05:00I agree with those who think of the spell names in...I agree with those who think of the spell names in any game as reference for GM and players, but that in the game world they dont' really refer to them by the (often) daft names.<br /><br />I also have to agree that, despite having ran and enjoyed the game in the dim past, I think of it very much as a somewhat parody of D&D (but maybe no more so than Arduin).<br /><br />The "socialist" nature of the damage dice (everyone on one side is hurt while the other side is unscathed) was the one big turnoff for me, and the main reason the game was mostly a passing fancy from when I was much younger.Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2205813191863549442009-12-03T13:56:28.401-05:002009-12-03T13:56:28.401-05:00The Recursion King,
I think you've got it wr...The Recursion King, <br /><br />I think you've got it wrong. It did evolve independently and it's not a parody of OE. The game system is really very innovative and a lot of newer gaming systems couldn't hold a flame to T&T. <br /><br />I encourage you to just check it out yourself, you might be surprised.Chad Thorsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15084711824869449643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-79356787267314739122009-12-03T13:55:22.125-05:002009-12-03T13:55:22.125-05:00Recursion King, would you care to quote and link w...Recursion King, would you care to quote and link where Ken St. Andre said that?nothinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07988753905326172273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-80960452981386291102009-12-03T11:31:10.602-05:002009-12-03T11:31:10.602-05:00When I was in junior high, my gaming group inherit...When I was in junior high, my gaming group inherited a hand me down copy of T&T 5th edition from one player's older brother. I became briefly obsessed with it and was allowed to borrow the book for some time. I could never get my group interested in it; the only two times I ran it was with people outside our normal gaming group, including one who wasn't even a gamer. <br />I found the game very easy to tinker with, but eventually I fell out of love with it because of the "Socialist Combat System." (Oh, how clever I thought I was) The spell names never bothered me, though I think they would now. <br /><br />Hmmm.... (wanders off to Ebay)DMWieghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03682249561077936507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59683841431581287892009-12-03T11:01:55.467-05:002009-12-03T11:01:55.467-05:00Parody? Eh? No.Parody? Eh? No.AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-53873689767187860882009-12-03T05:03:14.299-05:002009-12-03T05:03:14.299-05:00Tunnels and Trolls annoys me. I recently read a re...Tunnels and Trolls annoys me. I recently read a review where the creator tries to convince us that Tunnels and Trolls was created completely independently of Dungeons and Dragons. What a load of lies. Even the name is a copy, a rip off, the whole thing is a parody and like many Hollywood parodies, not as good (or as clever) as it likes to think it is.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74445264594121383992009-12-03T03:11:10.357-05:002009-12-03T03:11:10.357-05:00Now I have this idea in my head of a Japanese anim...Now I have this idea in my head of a Japanese anime game designed by Ken St. Andre. Aarrgh!AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77080683687429028532009-12-03T03:09:57.470-05:002009-12-03T03:09:57.470-05:00Imredave, you're missing the point of roleplay...<i>Imredave, you're missing the point of roleplaying in T & T. If the monster is too tough for you in a straight up fight, then you do something sneaky and underhanded using magic, or saving rolls, and beat it by role-playing. Alternatively, sometimes the best solution is to simply run away. Or, you might try talking to that troll. Some of the best game situations start with a character saying, "hey, you're just the guy I've been looking for." to that big baddie that just appeared.</i><br /><br />You wonder what Old School is? Read that section quoted above again if you are interested in the history of our hobby. Player advice from one of the designers who helped create that hobby. Succinctly put, Ken!AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3820525096315290962009-12-03T00:47:24.054-05:002009-12-03T00:47:24.054-05:00I've had plenty of T&T combats where 4d6 b...I've had plenty of T&T combats where 4d6 beat out 6d6, especially with standard "monster rating" foes, since injuring them decreases their dice & adds (or just adds, in 7th ed). And even when the fight goes in accordance with statistical likelihood, well, how unrealistic is that, after all? Throw in the spite damage rules and you have a decent simulation of the results of plenty of real-life fights--one side inflicts most of the damage, one side takes most of it.amp108https://www.blogger.com/profile/06730954482557756380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4666313598790244222009-12-03T00:07:12.527-05:002009-12-03T00:07:12.527-05:00Imredave, you're missing the point of roleplay...Imredave, you're missing the point of roleplaying in T & T. If the monster is too tough for you in a straight up fight, then you do something sneaky and underhanded using magic, or saving rolls, and beat it by role-playing. Alternatively, sometimes the best solution is to simply run away. Or, you might try talking to that troll. Some of the best game situations start with a character saying, "hey, you're just the guy I've been looking for." to that big baddie that just appeared.Fun at the Libraryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07368507312687626259noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-44158223116031159282009-12-02T23:46:45.199-05:002009-12-02T23:46:45.199-05:00Although I do own both Tunnels and Trolls and Mons...Although I do own both Tunnels and Trolls and Monsters! Monsters! The game system suffers from a tragic flaw. The combat system! Your just not going to beat the troll's 6d6 with your 4d6 great axe very often and the fact the that amount of damage you take is equal to the amount he beat you by just adds insult to injury. However, Tunnels and Trolls broad support for solo adventures has done a good job of keeping the game alive. My wife also has very fond mermories of the tunnels and trolls game Rich Loomis ran her through at a convention long ago. Although she uses this to point out that a good DM is more important than the quality of the system, and that the adventure involved very few head to head combats.imredavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11791259426241403181noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51970137762266540382009-12-02T23:29:02.063-05:002009-12-02T23:29:02.063-05:00Ken (FunAtTheLibrary), thanks for that extra bit o...Ken (FunAtTheLibrary), thanks for that extra bit of detail regarding the spell names. :)Timeshadowshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09952601433965644275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28605297701563325832009-12-02T23:27:29.798-05:002009-12-02T23:27:29.798-05:00T&T was the first RPG to do a number of things...T&T was the first RPG to do a number of things. It was the first game in which the stats actually made a big difference in combat. It was also the first game that based the saving role directly on the character's stats. There was a companion game Monsters! Monsters! which was the first game I know where you played the "bad guys". The spin off MSPE by Mike Stackpole was also a concise, modern RPG with tight character creation and skill rules, and great advise on the genre and refereeing.Captain Jackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10682678777940123469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16893348817689722362009-12-02T22:34:44.482-05:002009-12-02T22:34:44.482-05:00> I do think the hobby might be a more enjoyabl...> I do think the hobby might be a more enjoyable place for all if the ethos of T&T were more widely imitated<br /><br />(qft)<br /><br />> T&T 5th edition rules published by Corgi (UK)<br />...<br />> Some spells have been changed in this edition:<br />...<br />> The UK editors didn't change "Yassa-Massa" however. So, on the whole, the book still contains some unfortunate spell names.<br /><br />Never had any problems with the spell names, personally; nor were those changed in the original UK edition (January 1977 per top-right; http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/harami2000/tunnels2.jpg ) which was the first RPG published over here.irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81502637868302523712009-12-02T22:12:24.700-05:002009-12-02T22:12:24.700-05:00Dr Rotwang! likes T&T. This simple fact shoul...Dr Rotwang! likes T&T. This simple fact should disarm all further quibbles.Dr Rotwanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16750632906878388570noreply@blogger.com