tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post4554607613902446232..comments2024-03-19T04:29:47.922-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Open Friday: What Does It Mean?James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29250808987327888902011-12-19T19:52:19.995-05:002011-12-19T19:52:19.995-05:00Sadly, I missed the poll, but just for the record,...Sadly, I missed the poll, but just for the record, I started in 1977.Cord the Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15768966473685556824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10915309560755060812011-10-31T12:46:40.465-04:002011-10-31T12:46:40.465-04:00Total anecdote but I know that out of the gamers i...Total anecdote but I know that out of the gamers in my B/X (now Labyrinth Lord) group.<br /><br />I started playing 2nd ed when I was 12 or 13 years old in 92.<br /><br />Our DM started with the Red Box when he was around 12ish back in the early 80s.<br /><br />One of us started with 3rd ed when he was around 19. Probably around 2007ish.<br /><br />I got my sister playing when she was 19 or so around the beginning of 3rd ed in 2000 I think.<br /><br />My wife, her co-worker and her co-workers brother all started with B/X two years ago.<br /><br />At least in my little neck of the woods we're still drawing in new players.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02218364111122137880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27185753186859482422011-10-31T10:00:24.318-04:002011-10-31T10:00:24.318-04:00Rather, the OSR exists to recapture experiences lo...<i>Rather, the OSR exists to recapture experiences lost in newer rule sets.</i><br /><br>The OSR grew out of efforts to provide the means to legally produce adventures and other support materials for out of out-of-print versions of <i>D&D</i>. Once that happened, it went off in a lot of different directions, some of which are complementary and some of which aren't. That's why I always find it funny when people talk about "the OSR" as if it had one mind on almost any topic, even if there is a shared love by all its participants in the games of the past.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78161476932767516512011-10-31T09:57:16.750-04:002011-10-31T09:57:16.750-04:00Has anyone mentioned that this poll is bad news fo...<i>Has anyone mentioned that this poll is bad news for the OSR, as opposed to the hobby in general?<br /><br />If you assume that the OSR is 'meant' to get people into old-school games that weren't into them at the time.</i><br /><br>I'm not sure the OSR is <i>meant</i> to do anything, since there's no single direction the movement has taken. Some of its participants and well-wishers undoubtedly hope that it'll get new people into the old school scene, but others don't, and others still simply don't care. I'm more of the "don't care" variety myself. I do this stuff because <i>I</i> like it. That others do, including some others who never experienced old school gaming the first time around, is just a bonus.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41049339066338334972011-10-31T01:42:29.319-04:002011-10-31T01:42:29.319-04:00Heh, I'm the only one who voted 2000+.Heh, I'm the only one who voted 2000+.The Human Targethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18002445258419364816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-5771973897591476222011-10-31T00:05:05.185-04:002011-10-31T00:05:05.185-04:00As far as I know OSR wasn't "meant" ...As far as I know OSR wasn't "meant" to recruit new players. Rather, the OSR exists to recapture experiences lost in newer rule sets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32183091636388355912011-10-30T13:40:34.943-04:002011-10-30T13:40:34.943-04:00Has anyone mentioned that this poll is bad news fo...Has anyone mentioned that this poll is bad news for the OSR, as opposed to the hobby in general?<br /><br />If you assume that the OSR is 'meant' to get people into old-school games that weren't into them at the time.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42209794588750921892011-10-30T12:41:17.158-04:002011-10-30T12:41:17.158-04:00A professional market researcher's viewpoint: ...A professional market researcher's viewpoint: You have simply profiled the more committed members of your readership. People like me who started playing OD&D in the 1980s like this blog partially because of the nostalgia it brings. It would be poor science to extrapolate your findings to roleplayers in general. Having said that, your blog is excellent and I look forward to reading it every day.Marcus Coetzeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03894824068783820928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46528909683634874922011-10-29T17:17:30.419-04:002011-10-29T17:17:30.419-04:00I wonder if the current ratio of pen-and-paper rol...I wonder if the current ratio of pen-and-paper roleplayers to MMORPG players is similar to the ratio of wargamers to D&D players in the 80s.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33594675701315656222011-10-29T10:53:37.322-04:002011-10-29T10:53:37.322-04:00"Look for real panics/worries in parents of t..."Look for real panics/worries in parents of that time. I remember the PSA's about kids getting killed in the woods, and don't underestimate the seventies fear of cults." <br /><br />What a great point. That's probably worth a post itself - the culture in which D&D was born. Some wonderful questions in that list. Some worth unpacking. For instance, folks seem to forget the obsession with cults that was society-wide in the 70s and early 80s. It wasn't just church groups. In fact, it's been argued that the religious 'witch hunts' were actually in response to the cultural obsession with cults, not the cause. Which is why it wasn't just church groups that jumped all over this new fad called D&D. So a lot there worth unpacking and looking at in those questions. <br /><br />As for the results, I can't really speak to it, since I don't know enough of the whole history of the game (one of the reasons I enjoy this blog - learning).David Griffeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629314279592541401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85099606633709624542011-10-29T08:08:41.661-04:002011-10-29T08:08:41.661-04:00Rick-That point might make sense had I read any of...Rick-That point might make sense had I read any of your comments. I did not. I was rather commenting upon the general conceit of the post, and obvious areas it would miss.Turkish Proverbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02423061909797064886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16985765843147340152011-10-28T20:16:22.909-04:002011-10-28T20:16:22.909-04:00My limited exposure to under-20 gamers suggests th...<i>My limited exposure to under-20 gamers suggests that you're likely on to something, though the raises the further question as to why. Back in the '80s, if I'd had access to the Net and all the RPG-related stuff that's on it today, I know I'd have blown a lot of time there.</i><br /><br />I'd like to propose the thought that it's much harder to fall off the beaten path online these days, so people don't find the net as useful of a resource for RPG things. Between search engines that are really good at returning the main stream results (look at the first few pages of results for a Google search of D&D, all pretty much main stream, no hint of the OSR or even the general independent RPG community short of a link to enworld) and the circular nature of Facebook / Blogs as the primary communications and people either never find the deep resources off the beaten path, or they find their one niche and never find any of the branches out. It's real easy to find yourself a blog or two that you like, and follow their links and within one or two clicks be back to where you started.<br /><br />It's probably also worth considering that the younger players don't "need" the online community as much. To them the game is still young and fresh, the monster manuals and basic adventures will provide plenty of material.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26746263506325762122011-10-28T19:28:02.238-04:002011-10-28T19:28:02.238-04:00To add some context, one can look at the demograph...To add some context, one can look at the demographics of this site, according to Qunatcast:<br /><br />10% Under 18 <br />24% 18-34<br />50% 35-49<br />17% 50+<br /><br />A huge number of 35-49 year old compared to the general population.<br /><br />By way of contrast, the DnD site:<br /><br />27% Under 18 <br />38% 18-34<br />25% 35-49<br />9% 50+<br /><br />And US World of Warcraft:<br /><br />27% Under 18 <br />50% 18-34<br />17% 35-49<br />5% 50+<br /><br />If I'm reading this right, according to Quantcast's data, the DnD site is the 5855th most popular in the US, slightly outranking TouchAracade--a well regarded source of reviews of iPhone games. Dungeons and Dragons seems to have quite a bit of life in it.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07197274506610578370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69542060945855367032011-10-28T19:19:23.103-04:002011-10-28T19:19:23.103-04:00There was a series of posts on boing boing about a...There was a series of posts on boing boing about a dad running a 4e game with his kids and their friends, most the players were about 6 years old... and now to digress.<br /><br />I think D&D attracts a certain type of thinker, and those who stick with all share that specific I-don't-know-what. Like any niche hobby, alot of noodles will get thrown against the wall, not all will stick.<br />Just polling some of the older dudes at work, many profess to playing D&D back in the eighties, but didn't stick with it. These days, we are faced with a glut of other time-sinks that require much less work on the part of the individual which equals less noodles even hitting the wall and much less noodles sticking to it.<br /><br />Still there are players out there. I ferret them out by sporting my Bag of Holding and flashing my d20 tattoo.aharshDMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03643545106415587401noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22503206177013797262011-10-28T17:38:29.355-04:002011-10-28T17:38:29.355-04:00As somebody-or-other once said, the "Golden A...<i>As somebody-or-other once said, the "Golden Age" of anything is 14.</i><br /><br />Asimov said such in his introduction to <i>Before the Golden Age</i>.<br />"To anyone who has lived a life hat has not been utterly disastrous, there is an iridescent quality permeating its second decade. Memories of the firest decade, extending back to before the age of ten, are dim, uncertain, and incomplete. Beginning with the third decade, after twenty, life becomes filled with adult responsibility and turen to lead. But that second decade, from ten to twenty, is gold; it is in those years that we remember bliss."rainswepthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06165059567790555748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69683242409493594922011-10-28T17:35:40.164-04:002011-10-28T17:35:40.164-04:00If you haven't done it by 15, you're proba...<i>If you haven't done it by 15, you're probably not going to.</i><br /><br />Hrm. I take some issue with this. I have had four things in my recent life (say last 5 to 10 years) that have been more than a non-casual hobby: basketball, aikido, boardgames, and rolegames. While it's certainly true that I did some of those things before the age of 15 (OK, not aikido, but judo), it's also pretty safe to say that I did <i>none</i> of them to the level of a serious hobby. The only hobby activities I did as a child and/or young teen that I still engage in are reading and card-playing.<br /><br />I picked up serious roleplaying at the age of 19 when I got included in the gaming group of a bunch of several older, and regular gamers: until very recently, I regularly played with this same group of games (i.e a stretch of about 25 years), and my current absence is really a temporary hiatus and not a permanent separation.<br /><br />I picked up serious boardgaming coincident with the North American Mayfair publication of Settlers of Catan (some time in my 20s I think).<br /><br />I picked up serious basketball in my mid- to late-thirties. Before that, I'd had an on-again off-again exposure to some serious volleyball as a hobby, but that was not as deeply involved as the basketball. For a stretch of almost ten years, I played about four to six hours of basketball a week, which I think is pretty serious commitment.<br /><br />My current devotion to aikido has lasted almost four years, and is (replacing the basketball) in about the four to six hours a week commitment level.<br /><br />My pre-15 activities might have introduced me to all these hobbies enough to let me know they could be fun, but I didn't do <i>any</i> of them with anything like the devotion I did during my University and later days.Viktorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04867648528753994863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83763564110514612011-10-28T16:12:53.300-04:002011-10-28T16:12:53.300-04:00The point: The internet is now something that can ...The point: The internet is now something that can be passively consumed, like TV, RPG information included.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-522827970166629302011-10-28T16:09:41.469-04:002011-10-28T16:09:41.469-04:00I still contend the youngsters just aren't loo...<i>I still contend the youngsters just aren't looking online as most of the people that play rpgs aren't looking online for RPG stuff. </i><br /><br />Most likely they're just doing what would be called 'lurking' in James' day: not posting anything, not calling attention to themselves, not talking to anyone not in their fbook.huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45473741464484878462011-10-28T14:56:59.541-04:002011-10-28T14:56:59.541-04:00There are younger people still entering the hobby....<i>There are younger people still entering the hobby. Not as much as there once was, but they're there.</i><br /><br>Of that I have no doubt! But there are also still younger people learning to play bridge, too, but I don't think that means there's going to be a resurgence of that once faddishly popular card game. If we're lucky, tabletop gaming is bringing in enough new blood to keep it going after we all shuffle off this mortal coil. I'm not convinced it is, though.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65107061476908426932011-10-28T14:50:40.109-04:002011-10-28T14:50:40.109-04:00The twice a month Meet-up gaming group I attend ha...The twice a month Meet-up gaming group I attend has about 20 regulars. 5 or so are 20 and younger. Another 8 or so are in their 20's. About 7 are in the 30 + age group. <br /><br />There <b>are</b> younger people still entering the hobby. Not as much as there once was, but they're there. They don't participate in the online RPG scene, are out of the loop on a lot of recent goings on, etc., being informed by word of mouth and their FLGS. <br /><br />All is not lost. :)Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46502170033244741922011-10-28T14:32:34.591-04:002011-10-28T14:32:34.591-04:00What it also could mean is that the 'OSR' ...What it also could mean is that the 'OSR' is a collection of people over the age of 30(mostly over 40). I would have been thrilled to see more people who started playing in 2000 and beyond having been followers of this and other great blogs.deletedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14629023989035899992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83821569473333912332011-10-28T14:06:33.169-04:002011-10-28T14:06:33.169-04:00scottsz,
Those are superb questions. I wish I -- ...scottsz,<br /><br />Those are superb questions. I wish I -- or anyone really -- had answers to them. I think they'd paint a very interesting picture of the birth, growth, and decline of the hobby. Right now, all we have to go on are gut feelings and anecdotes.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28102284324649244082011-10-28T14:06:04.444-04:002011-10-28T14:06:04.444-04:00Definitely to be expected given the content of thi...Definitely to be expected given the content of this blog, but I think a wider sample not primarily consisting of the old-school community would find itself rather later... I must admit I'm surprised I'm the only person here who started after 2000.Rachel Ghoulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765944479141792643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73543980803671594352011-10-28T14:04:28.123-04:002011-10-28T14:04:28.123-04:00If Grognardia ever shuts down, I don't know wh...<i>If Grognardia ever shuts down, I don't know what I'll do.</i><br /><br>While there are a handful of individuals out there who'd no doubt love to see this happen, I wouldn't worry. I'm in this for the long haul :)James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62040226546512054392011-10-28T14:03:27.107-04:002011-10-28T14:03:27.107-04:00Before World of Warcraft RPGs (D&D specificall...<i>Before World of Warcraft RPGs (D&D specifically) were depicted as a weird games for weird people, agreed. Today, because of WoW, RPGs are universally accepted. I can speak to almost any 15-30 year old today and use terms like "gaining a level" or "experience points" or even "killing orcs" and they will not only know what I am talking about but not even bat an eye at the reference due to the pervasive presence of WoW and other CRPGs. I was never able to do that at any other time period I can think of, even the '80s.</i><br /><br>While I think other video games helped to popularize RPG-derived terms in popular usage, there's no doubt that WoW has contributed in a HUGE way to the popularization of a lot of <i>D&D</i>-style fantasy tropes.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.com