tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post4585261548293950824..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: More on MegadungeonsJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34315690936397090862009-10-26T02:51:07.760-04:002009-10-26T02:51:07.760-04:00Likely systemless, or OSRIC/S&W, irbyz: no ne...Likely systemless, or OSRIC/S&W, irbyz: no need to write for a system that's not doing mega-dungeons anyway, eh? :D<br /><br />Allan.grodoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800184312511280050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16985833642029490032009-10-25T22:19:51.493-04:002009-10-25T22:19:51.493-04:00> Which is why such a campaign-dungeons-focused...> Which is why such a campaign-dungeons-focused book needs to be published, of course!<br /><br />Systemless or otherwise, Allan? :)irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51906251909487583432009-10-25T21:05:35.851-04:002009-10-25T21:05:35.851-04:00I completely agree that it is something you have t...I completely agree that it is something you have to learn-by-doing. I still think a published a megadungeon could help a lot of people along that track, though. (As <i>First Fantasy Campaign</i> has helped me.) It’s not going to teach them everything, but it helps you see it as a reality. “Hey, I could do that. Oh, and I’m going to do <em>this</em> and <em>that</em> different.”<br /><br />For things your indecisive about, it gives you an example to copy so that you can get on with the task of learning-by-doing.<br /><br />I’m betting even the most experienced referee would pick up an idea or two from such a product as well. Something that they can add to their arsenal and adapt through doing.<br /><br />And I still think serving as a counter-example to the bulk of the market would be a very good thing.<br /><br />Whether it would actually do well in today’s market, though, is something I can’t address.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30211713052335374112009-10-25T16:00:51.561-04:002009-10-25T16:00:51.561-04:00. . . not to get us back off-topic, but I agree w.... . . not to get us back off-topic, but I agree with crow and irbyz that there is no "philosophical" reason that a campaign can't do everything. but since my group meets so infrequently, I have to choose what I'm going to develop.Brian (brian_cooper at hotmail d o t com)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02805168206752602148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64081391506922208192009-10-25T15:49:15.567-04:002009-10-25T15:49:15.567-04:00Which is why such a campaign-dungeons-focused book...Which is why such a campaign-dungeons-focused book needs to be published, of course!<br /><br />Allan.<br /><br />(validation word/omen: "printryo")grodoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800184312511280050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69371156572309192842009-10-25T13:32:00.828-04:002009-10-25T13:32:00.828-04:00He didn't say it couldn't be learned, just...He didn't say it couldn't be learned, just that it can't be learned from a book. You learn by doing. This may or may not include a mentor. Books of DM advice might be useful, but they are almost exclusively about high-prep DMing, instead of improv/megadungeon DMing.Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52987171213614678992009-10-25T07:31:26.338-04:002009-10-25T07:31:26.338-04:00Kids: Don't try to spell when you're ill o...Kids: Don't try to spell when you're ill out of your mind...AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32955817421602345352009-10-25T05:05:41.453-04:002009-10-25T05:05:41.453-04:00Since I feel the above commencts are goign off on ...Since I feel the above commencts are goign off on a tangent, I'll steer nback and comment upon something I felt odd that James wrote.<br /><br />How to be a referee can't be learnt, right? It has to be learnt from a mentor. So if we go all the way back to Dave Wesely we of source wonder who taught him? OR should we take it further back and ask who taught H.G. Wells? There's a logical error lurking here of infinite regression.<br /><br />No James, good refereeing skills can be codified and have been. I even think good Megadungeon caring skills can ce codified and put into product.AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19359677187619878822009-10-25T00:27:09.054-04:002009-10-25T00:27:09.054-04:00*nods* The same applies even to the likes of Black...*nods* The same applies even to the likes of Blackmoor, Greyhawk, et al, which have no such "deep roots"; the megadungeon was not the world by any means.<br />Admittedly the terrain around Greyhawk Castle and City had /relatively/ limited mapping compared with pretty much any modern-day off-the-shelf campaign world but even in that case not all physical lands are contiguous...<br /><br />The cultural dimension wasn't, however, to the fore in the original "D&D as a medieval wargames campaign" design as presented to the public, so it shouldn't be surprising that the "easy option" of dungeoneering ("per the title") was far-and-away the most popular despite the original campaigns having already expanded far beyond those bounds.<br />And within those dungeoneering boundaries it should also be no surprise that the relatively free-form megadungeons arose forth, given the lack of settings provided or anything beyond outline rules and tables. (Only a little unexpected, perhaps, that there were relatively few megadungeons hooked blatantly onto the likes of Tolkien's Moria rather than designed afresh).<br /><br />02c/ymmv as ever, anyhow. :)irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30742776858894907632009-10-24T23:06:02.528-04:002009-10-24T23:06:02.528-04:00Who says you cant have both? Take a look at Tekum...Who says you cant have both? Take a look at Tekumel for example, were players are encouraged to role play with the strange cultures and politics of the lands aswell as go dungeon delving into it's massive underworld looking for loot and fighting monsters. The only limits are your imagination afterall.crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54903923451569198922009-10-24T21:42:14.352-04:002009-10-24T21:42:14.352-04:00Among my friends, it was commonly believed that th...Among my friends, it was commonly believed that the "blocked-up tunnel" in the Caves of Chaos (from the Gnolls lair I believe) connected it to B1, In Search of the Unknown. This might make little sense to those of you who played B1 (we never did), but this kind of thinking suggests how one so inclined could purchase a mega-dungeon: buy modules and assemble them how you wish.<br /><br />My players (and me, too probably) generally prefer quasi-political adventures involving human agents that don't really seem to work in a dungeon. And I feel a little sad about this, because these posts and comments about the dungeon as a universe underground are powerfully suggestive.Brian (brian_cooper at hotmail d o t com)https://www.blogger.com/profile/02805168206752602148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91546384046294466212009-10-24T20:37:42.046-04:002009-10-24T20:37:42.046-04:00I wouldn't want a Megadungeon "in a box.&...I wouldn't want a Megadungeon "in a box." Granted, I'll get around to reading "The Castle of the Mad Archmage," and I'm sure I'll not only enjoy it, but, I'm likely to find some clever ideas I can use in my game. I would even BUY a product with those kind of historical ties; but to read, not run. The design aspect of DMing is an integral part of my gaming experience. How many of us who do it because We Want To, as opposed to doing it because "No one else will," use modules? At least, after we've been doing it for a little while. Every DM of the former persuasion whom I've spoken to, tells me the same thing: "I make my own material." <br />I'm not sure how DM's who've started out with the Wotc versions feel, but, I certainly hope they feel the same way. I would expect them to.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-86740891509110309422009-10-24T16:41:11.706-04:002009-10-24T16:41:11.706-04:00> That's why exhaustive campaign settings, ...> That's why exhaustive campaign settings, adventure paths, and monstrously large rulebooks seem to rule the day rather than the more skeletonic offerings of the Golden Age.<br /><br />Hmm... how much of the difference is actually down to stat blocks?<br /><br />The megadungeon comparisons in your previous post were more with the /unpublished/ campaign dungeons that originated in "Prehistory" (for the obvious names) and early Golden Age (for the likes of Gorree, Edwyr and others which receive blank stares nowadays), was it not?<br /><br />If we're getting out of the dungeon it might be fair to make comparisons with CSIO et al, but those /published/ Golden Age megadungeons are rather elusive, surely? (GDQ, for example, is still leading through an adventure path, albeit perhaps better played more open-ended than with the Q bolt-on being "the goal").irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51759390785679128542009-10-24T16:36:51.918-04:002009-10-24T16:36:51.918-04:00Can't recall whether you've already talked...Can't recall whether you've already talked here about Tony Dowler's <a href="http://planet-thirteen.com/Dungeon.aspx" rel="nofollow">How to Host a Dungeon</a>, but that effort seems pertinent.Allen Varneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10751693785863649469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69231642057283598192009-10-24T16:17:31.275-04:002009-10-24T16:17:31.275-04:00Oddly enough, I just said in my own post on this t...Oddly enough, I <a href="http://9and30kingdoms.blogspot.com/2009/10/megadungeon-training.html" rel="nofollow">just said in my own post on this topic that I think running a megadungeon in this way is something you have to learn by doing</a>. So, you won't get any argument on elitism from me. But then, I went ahead and started posting some suggestions on improvising dungeon details.Talysmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162328521343832412noreply@blogger.com