tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post5120423834625010030..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Pulp Fantasy Library: The Dying EarthJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14426565463752715072021-06-21T15:37:27.896-04:002021-06-21T15:37:27.896-04:00I tried to read the last story in the Dying Earth ...I tried to read the last story in the Dying Earth Anthology but it is so verbose I couldn't get through it.The Man in Blackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06081040874617462809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8447981044277973762010-09-15T02:12:00.386-04:002010-09-15T02:12:00.386-04:00There's an excellent RPG based on Vance's ...There's an excellent RPG based on Vance's work. It is a thoughtful and very inclusive of his work.<br /><br />Lazarus Lupin<br />http://strangespanner.blogspot.com/<br />art and reviewLazarus Lupinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13498179029332944165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50653707253265025482010-09-14T23:52:38.154-04:002010-09-14T23:52:38.154-04:00An excellent book - especially if you can track do...An excellent book - especially if you can track down the Omnibus editionAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14741915662135713990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73463989998841667982010-09-14T20:14:43.784-04:002010-09-14T20:14:43.784-04:00Having read about Vance, Cugel, and Rhialto for so...Having read about Vance, Cugel, and Rhialto for some time made me want to actually read Vance. "Tales of the Dying Earth" is solidly listed in my Amazon's wish list. Thanks for the post, James.jdebetolazahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16268415411507646640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14911731601295396932010-09-14T02:33:51.176-04:002010-09-14T02:33:51.176-04:00Only one other person mentioned Lyonesse so far? ...Only one other person mentioned Lyonesse so far? The Dying Earth is fantastic, and is more relevant to D&D, but Lyonesse is his masterwork IMO.<br /><br />Ravenconspiracy- Excellent observation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90908040565605923442010-09-13T21:17:21.492-04:002010-09-13T21:17:21.492-04:00Man, I'm going to have to add another writer t...Man, I'm going to have to add another writer to the list. Darn you to heck, Maliszewski!Infamoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13979774352890690528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31493158158795674272010-09-13T20:26:15.773-04:002010-09-13T20:26:15.773-04:00Cudgel saga I liken to Voltaire's Candide--if ...Cudgel saga I liken to Voltaire's Candide--if the protagonist had the morality of pangloss and never learned to tend to his garden.UWS guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01277557128674527225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74819234157765970262010-09-13T17:49:50.770-04:002010-09-13T17:49:50.770-04:00For those interested in Vance's rich use of la...For those interested in Vance's rich use of language I recommend <a href="http://pharesm.org" rel="nofollow">TOTALITY Online</a>, "The Vance Vocabulary Search Tool". The dialogue in Cugel the Clever is even more stylized and quotable. "It is the height of impudent recklessness to hector a person already struggling to maintain his judicious calm!"<br /><br />I'm thinking of a Dying Earth campaign using Swords & Wizardry (with renamed spells) and tech from Mutant Future.<br /><br />When you realize the Earth is dying and there's nothing you can do about it, that's very liberating.Jesse Zbikowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15928101384126639931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56954024669096969862010-09-13T17:07:09.846-04:002010-09-13T17:07:09.846-04:00I'm an idiot. I just clicked on the comments t...I'm an idiot. I just clicked on the comments to scroll through them -just in case- anyone said they didn't like Jack Vance so that I could call them out and tell them how wrong they were because language is the soul of writing and he was a master of it.<br /><br />And then nobody had and then I realized I have, like, work to do.Zak Sabbathhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08812410680077034917noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15285278281684352892010-09-13T16:57:04.449-04:002010-09-13T16:57:04.449-04:00Vance is one of my all-time favorite authors. His...Vance is one of my all-time favorite authors. His descriptions are so lovely, his dialogue so outrageous, his characters (aside from a couple of pedestrian supercompetent heroes) so eccentric- he is simply enchanting.<br /><br /><i>These spells work reliably; despite their arcane names, they're effectively a kind of technology. But they're a technology the knowledge of whose principles are slowly fading from the world, as fewer and fewer people, even mages, truly understand magic.</i><br /><br />I just re-read <i>The Miracle Workers</i> in its entirety last night, and this novella takes this theme as its core. The jinxmen characterize their space-faring ancestors as wild, barbaric wizards. <br /><br /><i>Unsurprisingly, seeking out the eldritch knowledge and treasures of bygone ages is a significant pastime for latter day sorcerers and their companions.</i><br /><br />This is a facet of the game which isn't often played up. Reading Vance's description of how one of the wizards (probably Mazirian) used negotiation and stratagem to gain the hundred spells that he possessed will always color my view of how the lowly Prestidigitator gains his arcane knowledge.<br /><br /><i>In addition, some described scenarios and spells (like a 'Rope Trick' spell from "The Reluctant King") seem to have been lifted as a whole and imported into D&D. </i><br /><br />The <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick" rel="nofollow">"Indian Rope Trick"</a> is one of the great classic tricks of the illusionist's craft.Scallop Skulled Skaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09614954870582728737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75898552329945481782010-09-13T16:03:37.189-04:002010-09-13T16:03:37.189-04:00Jack Vance made me finally understand D&D.
So...Jack Vance made me finally understand D&D.<br /><br />So many authors like Tolkien, have a fantasy setting which adheres to tropes like FATE and DESTINY, not to mention honor and good triumphant over evil - things which simply do not work in a game where the dice tell thier own story and the players are largely beyond the control of the DM.<br /><br />Cugel is just like a long-time and somewhat BAD player. He is often presented with interesting or even mind-blowing information or situations which he often chooses ingore or just scoff at and go about with his own schemes.<br /><br />But Vance shows us how to spin this very "quality" of a misbehaving character and turn out a riotous series of adventures. He seems to let Cugel follow his whimsy and passions for revenge, sloth, and crime. Meanwhile the WORLD Vance creates, is constantly putting danger and bizarre circumstance in his path - no matter how many scrapes he gets out of.<br /><br />His writing, specifically how he as an author deals with the character of Cugel, showed me how to be a better DM.ravenconspiracyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02213200607228975388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8419647261247531402010-09-13T13:51:11.217-04:002010-09-13T13:51:11.217-04:00I picked up a paperback anthology of these stories...I picked up a paperback anthology of these stories actually just a few months back, once I started reading this blog. It got me interested in seeking these books out. I remember having looked for them for years but I think they were out of print for awhile because I never saw them at any bookstore I went to.<br /><br />That said, I've been trying to get into it because I really <i>want</i> to read it, but for some reason, the writing style isn't engaging to me. The beginning of the first story was so confusing, I feel. Part of that might be because I keep getting interrupted in my reading (having a one-year old at home will do that to you), so I'm willing to accept that if I could just sit down and devote a large block of time to reading it then it would flow better. <br /><br />As it is, I had to put it down and go back to reading some other things. I hope to get back to it soon.Martin R. Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11854760943630230553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46755715680905045142010-09-13T12:53:28.094-04:002010-09-13T12:53:28.094-04:00In addition to Vance (whose work I love and probab...In addition to Vance (whose work I love and probably would have never picked up if it hadn't been mentioned in the D&D books), I think props need to be extended to L. Sprague DeCamp for the "Novarian" series of novels. I think these books date from mid-late 60s to early 70s (so they would have been 'current' for Gygax and Arneson) and DeCamp got his start writing for the sci-fi and fantasy pulps of the Golden and Silver ages. Like Vance, these books reference a more 'picaresque' fantasy world where lust, greed and pride are as important motivations to the characters as 'good' and 'evil' are in the more high-minded fantasy of Tolkien. In addition, the Novarian world features a series of kingdoms all constantly embroiled in intrigue against one another, a multitude of 'races' with different qualities that mirror the interrelations between elf, dwarf, goblin, orc, etc (the different races of Novaria are not all human (i.e.: there are 'demons' from another plane, cannibalistic humans from the south, neanderthals who are often enslaved by the homo-sapiens because they are lesser beings, etc.). Wizards and shaman within DeCamp's world will cast spells for hire and many stories involve quests for magic that will exploit the weaknesses of the enemy. As a reader, I felt the 'Novarian' books bordered on satire. In addition, some described scenarios and spells (like a 'Rope Trick' spell from "The Reluctant King") seem to have been lifted as a whole and imported into D&D. <br />I also love the 'Harold O'Shea' books by DeCamp and Pratt (whose publishing dates I think either pre-date or overlap chronologically with the Novarian books). The "Harold O'Shea" stories have more in common with Twain's "Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court" story than with the high minded Tolkien. The hero goes through a series of adventures in Norse Mythology where he adventures through the inspiration for "The Steading of The Hill Giant Chief" and "The Hall of the Fire Giant King."Stefan Poaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192911890556534923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58653289159519349902010-09-13T12:51:22.535-04:002010-09-13T12:51:22.535-04:00I quite like Vance's Dying Earth tales, especi...I quite like Vance's <i>Dying Earth</i> tales, especially those featuring Cugel. But my favourite books by Vance are his <i>Lyonesse</i> ones. In fact, I would rank them within my 'top 3' (along with LotR and Howard's Conan stories).<br /><br />For some reason the Lyonesse stories never achieved much success (except in France, where I'm told they were, and perhaps still are, very popular).Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59753902912010916992010-09-13T12:39:21.426-04:002010-09-13T12:39:21.426-04:00Ah, Vance! My favorite author. Would that my own w...Ah, Vance! My favorite author. Would that my own writing could be as colorful as his.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12508594597349248576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75314090863435371282010-09-13T12:25:11.941-04:002010-09-13T12:25:11.941-04:00I love your last paragraph James, I agree profound...I love your last paragraph James, I agree profoundly.<br /><br />Really getting into the Judges' Guild Wilderlands stuff has fully awakened my love of the picaresque. Did you know that Balrogs are a common wilderness encounter in the Wilderlands? Check any of the old map books and you'll see a happy Balrog sat atop his hill! I love how the JG stuff takes all the Tolkien tropes and subverts them into something Vance would have recognised.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83902838108986957302010-09-13T11:03:55.329-04:002010-09-13T11:03:55.329-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Vincent Diakuwhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12176340701893887319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64190771690674275482010-09-13T11:02:01.548-04:002010-09-13T11:02:01.548-04:00I love the original Dying Earth book. It is a wond...I love the original Dying Earth book. It is a wonderous book written in beautiful language. I don't care for its sequels, however. I found them forgettable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51823462531136850362010-09-13T10:39:07.547-04:002010-09-13T10:39:07.547-04:00I picked up an enormous hard-bound anthology once,...I picked up an enormous hard-bound anthology once, when reading about the OSR. I figured a guy that gets talked about this much can't be horrible. <br /><br />I found Cugel to be absolutely hilarious. A definition of "lout", Cugel is lazy, manipulative, and greedy. Reading about him always made me laugh, especially since he'd try his hardest to con people out of what they worked so hard for, only to find himself in ever deeper excrement. <br /><br />That, and the stories about the Dragon Masters were really cool, if for nothing than to turn what was on the surface a rather mundane fantasy creature-breeding affair into something deep, wondrous, and a little insane.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08596442998967851832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64838583719078738762010-09-13T10:34:09.150-04:002010-09-13T10:34:09.150-04:00James, you put the tag 'pulp fantasy' on t...James, you put the tag 'pulp fantasy' on this, where before you were using 'pulp fantasy library' (I've got a link to your Pulp Fantasy Library posts on my blog).anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75678780993657771062010-09-13T10:28:52.873-04:002010-09-13T10:28:52.873-04:00When I first started getting into the OSR last yea...When I first started getting into the OSR last year, I picked up a copy of the "Compleat Dying Earth". I enjoyed the first several stories, but found the character of Cugel to be so unlikable that I couldn't finish the book. It could have just been my mood at the time (my father had just passed away unexpectedly), but I didn't feel like reading about a self serving hero.arcadaynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17025690624100512801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28318280334861143022010-09-13T10:17:59.101-04:002010-09-13T10:17:59.101-04:00I was 15 the first time I read it, and it was 10 y...I was 15 the first time I read it, and it was 10 years more before I owned a copy of my own, but I never stopped thinking about it in between. It has a lurid dream like quality that I could never really hope to define. I have a copy of that edition, by the way, which I was lucky enough to get signed in the latter 90's (around the time Nightlamp was released). Meeting Vance was one of the great honors of my life.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145284080419502886noreply@blogger.com