tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post541225451575293383..comments2024-03-19T04:29:47.922-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Pulp Fantasy Library: The Swords of LankhmarJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83548721591895690032010-11-24T13:47:04.286-05:002010-11-24T13:47:04.286-05:00My favorite memory associated with Swords of Lankh...My favorite memory associated with Swords of Lankhmar is that, before reading the book, I figured the cover art was just another example of low editorial standards in fantasy paperbacks.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08868302412533031659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46779013366140906592010-11-23T20:00:01.302-05:002010-11-23T20:00:01.302-05:00How have you gotten this far without reading all o...<i>How have you gotten this far without reading all of the F & GM stuff :)?</i><br /><br>When I first read Leiber's stuff, probably in the early 80s, the books to which I had access stopped just before <i>The Swords of Lankhmar</i>, so I simply assumed that's all the stories there were. And, as I said, I was later warned off reading the later stories, because they were supposedly "inferior" and I never bothered to see if that assessment was correct till now.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21374864803084754852010-11-23T19:58:09.138-05:002010-11-23T19:58:09.138-05:00I don't believe she played in an RPG campaign ...<i>I don't believe she played in an RPG campaign at the time she wrote the books.</i><br /><br>That's hard to believe, given what I know of Moon's books, but I've never actually read them, so I really can't say if my knowledge is at all distorted.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2859560320568991502010-11-23T17:19:08.085-05:002010-11-23T17:19:08.085-05:00@ JM - I envy you reading Ice Magic for (presumabl...@ JM - I envy you reading <i>Ice Magic</i> for (presumably) the first time. I try to re-read the entire "Saga" every five years or so, but there's nothing like the first time. Say hi to Khakht for me :). <br /><br />I think you'll like Rime Isle and the other stories in Ice just fine, but when you get to <i>Knight and Knave</i> prepare yourself for some unevenness. "The Curse of Smalls and Stars" is wonderful, but the rest is a mixed bag, some with a level of bawdiness I'm afraid you'll balk at. <br /><br />How have you gotten this far without reading all of the F & GM stuff :)?metamorphosissigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163514061779555557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17175612644577918042010-11-23T00:56:46.287-05:002010-11-23T00:56:46.287-05:00I don't believe she played in an RPG campaign ...I don't believe she played in an RPG campaign at the time she wrote the books. She has a background in history, horses and is a former Marine.<br /><br />From the cited article:<br /><br />"However, Ryk E. Spoor has stated:[2] Paksenarrion was born (according to an email exchange I had with the author) from BAD roleplaying [Emphasis mine] : Elizabeth Moon, not gaming herself, heard some people playing "Paladins" (Holy warriors in the service of a god) and doing so very poorly. Her reaction was of course that "such a person wouldn't act like that"... and in thinking about what they would act like, Paksenarrion was born."Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231842926923190503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-55720262654470041102010-11-22T20:58:36.472-05:002010-11-22T20:58:36.472-05:00I've read Conan for the first time in my life ...I've read Conan for the first time in my life because of your posts, and I really enjoyed what I've read so far. Seems like I'm gonna have to Google this Leiber guy too :).Valandilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02736239726821755165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2762274075974203822010-11-22T19:09:44.050-05:002010-11-22T19:09:44.050-05:00Something Fritz Leiber himself suggested in The Dr...<i>Something Fritz Leiber himself suggested in The Dragon #1.</i><br /><br>"A vasty underground world of many levels, a nation in the mines! There’s a Dungeon would send wargamers ape!"James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81800707497871705452010-11-22T19:07:29.348-05:002010-11-22T19:07:29.348-05:00I'm astounded that some people feel that the q...<i>I'm astounded that some people feel that the quality of the F & GM tales fell off as Leiber aged; if anything both author and work matured.</i><br /><br>Tastes differ, so I'm not surprised by the claim that his later stories declined in quality. Not having read them, I can't say if I agree yet, but I am working to rectify this.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36910457686497087872010-11-22T19:03:25.008-05:002010-11-22T19:03:25.008-05:00Read all the Lankhmar stories the year before last...Read all the Lankhmar stories the year before last. When it snowed I wanted to go out into the woods and read 'the snow women' again. Love (nearly) all of them to bits. The twain are after nothing more complicated than women, wine and loot - not setting the world right or defeating evil. Just good and strange lusty tales.Fran Terminiellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02506269178716477521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62067281295739525512010-11-22T19:01:24.918-05:002010-11-22T19:01:24.918-05:00One writer that may qualify, at least as an exampl...<i>One writer that may qualify, at least as an example of a D&D Paladin is Elizabeth Moon's "The Deed of Paksenarrion".</i><br /><br>It's my understanding that Moon's stories feel like <i>D&D</i> because they're heavily influenced by a RPG campaign in which she played. Is that correct?James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69426923371857555362010-11-22T19:00:13.608-05:002010-11-22T19:00:13.608-05:00I was actually wondering if the Rat King in your D...<i>I was actually wondering if the Rat King in your Dwimmermount campain was inspired by the rats of Lankhmar?</i><br /><br>Not originally, but, since I was read this novel shortly before I ran my last session of Dwimmermount, where the Boss of the Rats played an important role, I won't deny that I borrowed a few ideas from Leiber.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85169228797575562832010-11-22T18:01:49.105-05:002010-11-22T18:01:49.105-05:00Swords was my favorite of the series, when I read ...<i>Swords</i> was my favorite of the series, when I read them 25 years ago. I'm getting ready to re-read Leiber, so I'm looking forward to seeing if that holds true.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192212467523179768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-84851832108793544972010-11-22T17:18:34.918-05:002010-11-22T17:18:34.918-05:00Glad to see you finally got around to reading TSOL...Glad to see you finally got around to reading <i>TSOL</i>, and that you enjoyed it.Knightskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397391662639446678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38389173108161037372010-11-22T15:36:10.224-05:002010-11-22T15:36:10.224-05:00@John
"If ever anyone wants inspiration for ...@John<br /><br />"If ever anyone wants inspiration for a megadungeon, The Lords of Quarmall is it!"<br /><br />Something Fritz Leiber himself suggested in <i>The Dragon</i> #1. Around that time, Leiber seems to have been fairly accessible to his gaming fans, which is very cool.Rose Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16201318275929153053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37871821134682498112010-11-22T14:35:59.842-05:002010-11-22T14:35:59.842-05:00Swords of Lankhmar is a good novel, but I think Th...Swords of Lankhmar is a good novel, but I think The Lords of Quarmall is Leiber's best work. If ever anyone wants inspiration for a megadungeon, The Lords of Quarmall is it!Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14011319464542156037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91346023128041896642010-11-22T14:01:35.005-05:002010-11-22T14:01:35.005-05:00@crowking
"Another quality about Leiber that...@crowking<br /><br />"Another quality about Leiber that I feel he has over most fantasy writers was his ability of great dialog."<br /><br />Definitely. One of the fun parts of the opening of <i>The Swords of Lankhmar</i> is that the scene is set almost entirely through conversation between the heroes. You get a strong sense of their view on and relationship with the world.<br /><br />There's also a loose lesson for gaming, there: setting up action entirely through in-character conversation.Rose Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16201318275929153053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58298871317768604162010-11-22T13:27:15.239-05:002010-11-22T13:27:15.239-05:00One of the best writers, ever, in terms of sword &...One of the best writers, ever, in terms of sword & sorcery stories. I include with Leiber some other greats, all recognized almost universally by old school writers (in the bibliographies that appeared in rulebooks and articles). The names range to Moorcock, Vance, Brackett, Burroughs. Tolkien and Herbert belong as well, but more in terms of building interesting and compelling worlds (not that their stories suffered from lack of plot, dialog or intrigue).cturnitsahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08380005283710973072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7237545774117512122010-11-22T12:48:10.471-05:002010-11-22T12:48:10.471-05:00Another quality about Leiber that I feel he has o...Another quality about Leiber that I feel he has over most fantasy writers was his ability of great dialog. Leiber came from a theatrical background as well as lived in the shadier parts of cities such as of San Francisco's Tenderloin district and I think both helped develop his style which was very "adult" in nature. You could tell the first Gord noel Gary wrote was greatly influenced by Leibers style.crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-5616760877528073802010-11-22T12:35:19.425-05:002010-11-22T12:35:19.425-05:00No, Swords is not remotely lesser in any sense. No...No, <i>Swords</i> is not remotely lesser in any sense. Nor is Bazaar of the Bizarre, for that matter. I'm astounded that some people feel that the quality of the F & GM tales fell off as Leiber aged; if anything both author and work matured. <br /><br />Now if you want a lesser Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser tale, try out "The Mouser Goes Below" for size, or one of the two-three page short shorts. Leiber's output could be uneven, but the best of his stories more than excuse the few failures, and there's no discernable correlation between point in his career and quality, inversely or directly, IMO.metamorphosissigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163514061779555557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-92001817077605649012010-11-22T12:08:37.002-05:002010-11-22T12:08:37.002-05:00I don't think Swords is lesser in any way.I don't think <i>Swords</i> is lesser in any way.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13752224263943355669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67239868818834569152010-11-22T12:07:20.052-05:002010-11-22T12:07:20.052-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13752224263943355669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-55098363266338843532010-11-22T11:57:45.300-05:002010-11-22T11:57:45.300-05:00@Tom O'Bedlam
One writer that may qualify, at...@Tom O'Bedlam<br /><br />One writer that may qualify, at least as an example of a D&D Paladin is Elizabeth Moon's "The Deed of Paksenarrion".<br />see:<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deed_of_PaksenarrionUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18231842926923190503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17203549062345726702010-11-22T11:34:27.453-05:002010-11-22T11:34:27.453-05:00I had a hard time with Leiber. Perhaps it was bec...I had a hard time with Leiber. Perhaps it was because I started with Bazaar of the Bizarre, which I still don't enjoy nearly as much as the other F&GM tales.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91913265060593625112010-11-22T11:31:33.577-05:002010-11-22T11:31:33.577-05:00Leiber's Fafhrd and Mouser stories feel more D...Leiber's Fafhrd and Mouser stories feel more D&D to me than any other fiction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60171193304360980792010-11-22T11:22:36.393-05:002010-11-22T11:22:36.393-05:00The Swords of Lankhmar is one of my favorite books...<i>The Swords of Lankhmar</i> is one of my favorite books. I believe it was the second Fritz Leiber book I read, after the collection <i>Swords and Deviltry</i>. It's really where I fell in love with the characters and the city of Lankhmar itself.<br /><br />One of the things that I enjoy most about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser is that they're dreamers and romantics, not merely the stars of dreams and romance. They live in a world of fantasy and adventure, but that doesn't stop them from having vivid imaginations of their own -- consider the Mouser's vision of dueling swordsrats and wooing a slim rat queen. This is charming, and often adds to the poignance of the sword tale.<br /><br />I'm playing/developing a game right now that's primarily inspired by the Twain, and most specifically by <i>The Swords of Lankhmar</i>. I'm greatly enjoying writing the tables.<br /><br />Also, the first D&D product I owned was James Ward's <i>Dragonsword of Lankhmar</i> set.Rose Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16201318275929153053noreply@blogger.com