tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post5413754759862033297..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: Fiend FolioJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27257571105928461492020-12-23T10:35:16.659-05:002020-12-23T10:35:16.659-05:00I loved and used the gith a lot in my campaigns. I loved and used the gith a lot in my campaigns. Joaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00837511216478182329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48102735134217710492020-12-11T00:27:31.111-05:002020-12-11T00:27:31.111-05:00I generally enjoyed White Dwarf's monster colu...I generally enjoyed White Dwarf's monster column and often got some use of the monsters, but I remember being disappointed in the FIEND FOLIO itself. A few monsters were nice to have, but the biggest issue was that the Monster Manual contained a few extremely atmospheric pieces of B&W D&D art - the wyvern flying over the forest, for example, or the lurking giant spider. No illustrations in the Fiend Folio evoked that same sense of wonder and the style of most of the pictures, while somewhat interesting, was very different from the very good art we'd previous seen in the DMG, and Deities & Demigods, or even from the style used in White Dwarf magazine. The Fiend Folio did have a striking and colorful cover, though.<br /><br />I think the other main problem was the "tin ear" that the editor had for made-up monster names. Some are fine, but something like "Protein Polymorph" belongs in Gamma World, not a medieval fantasy game, and there were too many random syllable names as well. In addition to the silly season creatures (Flail Snail, etc.) I hated the boring creatures that seemed to lack all interest or mythic resonance, such as the Frost Man, essentially just barbarian who radiates cold, with no real background or anything.<br /><br />The book certainly wasn't terrible - there were a number of pretty cool critters in it - but there was a sense that it had been packed with "filler" that I hadn't got of most other TSR hardbacks. It was sort of the Blackmoor of the AD&D line, and at least Blackmoor had a certain manic charm to it.<br /><br /><br /><br />Another big part was naming. Fiend Folio's largely made up creatures often had bad (Flail Snail) or unpronounceable <br /><br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05041417374246196569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68073594933982319682020-12-06T06:19:13.808-05:002020-12-06T06:19:13.808-05:00Personally I enjoy the Fiend Folio, yes it's a...Personally I enjoy the Fiend Folio, yes it's a weird grab bag of monsters, but what else are you going to do when the well of common mythology has been mined so thoroughly? I don't have any problems with the artwork, it has the slightly cartoon black and white vibe that a lot of early D&D stuff had, it might be a bit different stylisticslky, but—as a fan of Fighting Fantasy, which it reminds me of—I'm fine with that.<br /><br />I can't claim to use the monster from Fiend Folio with any great regularity, but I view the monsters in Fiend Folio as things you throwcin every now and again to spice up a game. Red Dice Diarieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16518202580306013414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40687830732374888272020-12-06T00:51:21.144-05:002020-12-06T00:51:21.144-05:00Agreed on all counts (and I'm British, so it&#...Agreed on all counts (and I'm British, so it's not just about an appreciation of British idiosyncracy). As much as I love Russ Nicholson, I feel much of his art in the FF is his weakest work. (Though that grell is amazing.)Gavin Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12362875699031245377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71179064504182073192020-12-05T19:41:41.388-05:002020-12-05T19:41:41.388-05:00I didn't dislike the Fiend Folio. I disliked t...I didn't dislike the Fiend Folio. I disliked the Monster Manual 2 though, beyond the Aboleth I don't think I used a single beast.Ruprechthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00139664977453444000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45529754508524394392020-12-04T18:02:47.890-05:002020-12-04T18:02:47.890-05:00This was the first AD&D book I owned. The cove...This was the first AD&D book I owned. The cover alone, glimpsed at the house of the boys who taught me AD&D (which I tried to run using Basic D&D) is such a vivid memory of my first days of gaming. It's still my favorite, and posts about how it's great and how it's overrated are always fun to read.Peter Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246000382321978462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74690883925110860692020-12-04T10:22:00.054-05:002020-12-04T10:22:00.054-05:00Have not seen that Niven reference ever used befor...Have not seen that Niven reference ever used before! :)squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4589445151867172002020-12-03T16:20:04.141-05:002020-12-03T16:20:04.141-05:00It occurred to me, the closest modern thing to the...It occurred to me, the closest modern thing to the FF, and how useful and insane it is, was Veins of the Earth. Those scratchy illos of nonsense—but also a kind of mad sense—horrors down in the absolute dark.<br /><br />The OSR is mostly recycled late-'80s AD&D with B/X mechanics instead, with the serial numbers filed off, but maybe 10-20% taps back into that old vibe of "we make this stuff up, we can make up ANYTHING."<br />Mark Hugheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05325140104622317511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54512859330395153132020-12-03T11:27:36.355-05:002020-12-03T11:27:36.355-05:00My most disappointing AD&D purchase, and possi...My most disappointing AD&D purchase, and possibly most disappointing RPG purchase ever. I have vivid memories of it. When I saw it on the bookstore shelf behind the cashier, I flipped out at the blue color and cover art of the book (I thought it was some kind of Undead). When I got home, I dug into my savings from splitting and stacking wood for the several weeks previous as we readied for Fall/Winter cold. <br /><br />The next day I was at the bookstore again (it was close to my School, and I walked to School) When I got it home and gave it a real flip-through, I was livid. The art and the silliness totally rubbed me the wrong way. I was crushed having spent the $12 plus tax having worked so hard for that money.<br /><br />My opinion today has not changed much. There is some good art in the back by my fave TSR artists. I always liked Russ N (Fighting Fantasy), however I felt/feel his work is out of place for AD&D at the time, which was more of the superheroic style of Willingham, Dee, Roslof. Russ' art was more on the grim fairy tale side of things. A fine style, just too weird of a contrast compared to how AD&D was being presented in all the other products of that 1980-1982 period.<br /><br />Bottom line: I had to sell off my original RQ, AD&D and OD&D collections circa 2005 due to a layoff. Over the years I have replaced all my AD&D hardcovers, barring the Fiend Folio. JEFFBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08862106711059104379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81141788279533677042020-12-03T11:05:29.309-05:002020-12-03T11:05:29.309-05:00I was a huge fan of the FF, and largely use it as ...I was a huge fan of the FF, and largely use it as my "real monsters" mix; there's Humans and a few common creatures in the world, and then all other encounters are with weird horrific things you've never heard of.<br /><br />My absolute favorite monster ever is the "Eye of Fear and Flame".<br />Mark Hugheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05325140104622317511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77008773157469178522020-12-03T08:29:10.582-05:002020-12-03T08:29:10.582-05:00The Fiend Factory, from which the Fiend Folio was ...The Fiend Factory, from which the Fiend Folio was mostly drawn, continued the much hallowed UK fanzine tradition of publishing new monsters to trip up experienced adventurers that already knew how to defeat the established ones. They were pretty much all unique dungeon surprises, and generally expected to be one-off encounters and never to be seen again.<br /><br />There is always a problem of how many monsters is enough in a game. And the answer is invariably either a few well developed ones or an unmeasurable plethora of strangeness (usually aided either by insane magic users either summoning strange creatures from distant planes or creating chimera in their labs) or some sort of portals or cosmic level campaign where you can meet this weirdness.<br /><br />On the gripping hand having each and every monster be unique is also a valid strategy, especially for a sword & sandals game. One pegasus, one (or rather three) medusae, one storm giant (his name is Edgar btw), etc. Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22736191450664937032020-12-03T07:23:37.998-05:002020-12-03T07:23:37.998-05:00Thanks for putting into words things I've felt...Thanks for putting into words things I've felt about the Fiend Folio for years. I don't quite dislike it that much, it ranks near the bottom of all the hardcover books. It has both some of the best and some of the worst creatures and art in all of AD&D.<br /><br />It was my first AD&D book (my mom had no idea what she was getting), and I thought it was really weird. MM2 ranks as one of my faves.Thomas Denmarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06135075012362548876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77307351260986334532020-12-03T00:06:33.006-05:002020-12-03T00:06:33.006-05:00The original "Dragon Warriors" books imm...The original "Dragon Warriors" books immediately situate you in a time and place. Admittedly for me, that's equal parts Mythic Britain and a circa-1994 Batemans Bay book exchange (where I discovered them on holidays), but they're evocative nonetheless!Shane Cubishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09439632627554929290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27004707190283044642020-12-02T15:51:42.274-05:002020-12-02T15:51:42.274-05:00I had another issue with the Fiend Folio - coming ...I had another issue with the Fiend Folio - coming into AD&D at 1E orange-spine, the FF was nowhere to be found. Yet supplements and adventures would keep referring me back to the FF, usually not giving anywhere near enough information to run such monsters without it. Quite frustrating.MXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02839750340785203625noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63479497915538293232020-12-02T13:56:13.139-05:002020-12-02T13:56:13.139-05:00Some of the art kept me at arms length even with f...Some of the art kept me at arms length even with fairly basic monsters. The hook horrors and dire corbys just don’t look cool. Goofy really with smiles and all. But more modern artistic depictions (of the two mentioned there is a Drizzt graphic novel which makes them outstanding...terrifying) have turned me around. <br /><br />It’s interesting how the art can make or break an otherwise encounter worthy creature.<br /><br />I really hate the githyanki art, but again more modern renderings look quite cool.Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38588399916363315422020-12-02T12:50:46.686-05:002020-12-02T12:50:46.686-05:00There were a few interesting creatures, but most I...There were a few interesting creatures, but most I thought were not that good. Also, it seemed a good number attacked elves on sight. Cannot remember if I ever purchased it or a friend did.Russellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16573515239455290988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63030671521757192482020-12-02T12:44:53.239-05:002020-12-02T12:44:53.239-05:00gritiness was always my game - 1st manual i ever g...gritiness was always my game - 1st manual i ever got<br />Konsumterrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18170560484656800416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62741940456148535902020-12-02T12:39:17.434-05:002020-12-02T12:39:17.434-05:00It was a poor cover-choice all around.It was a poor cover-choice all around.squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32315234581589713112020-12-02T11:40:43.782-05:002020-12-02T11:40:43.782-05:00The Githyanki elbows confused me, and are still th...The Githyanki elbows confused me, and are still the object of ridicule on the internet today.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02550166377919057349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47515349929094230812020-12-02T11:32:09.364-05:002020-12-02T11:32:09.364-05:00Well I remember at least four encounters with FF m...Well I remember at least four encounters with FF monsters: being teleported by a Crypt Thing, fighting a bunch of Sons of Kyuss, fleeing from some Skeleton warriors and being mugged by Dark Creepers. <br />You'll probably be surprised to hear that being mugged by Dark Creepers was the scariest, after being teleported by the Crypt Thing. artikidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17474295473142339717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15189588535057176202020-12-02T10:48:22.294-05:002020-12-02T10:48:22.294-05:00I had similar feeling about the FF, however, they ...I had similar feeling about the FF, however, they are also coloured by my memories of some awesome games DM'd by my older brother way bitd. We will never forget fighting a Grell or the Eye of Fear and Flame for the first time. And is there anything really more evil than a Son of Kyuss?<br />So, while many are superfluous, as JB says, it does have monsters in there that will always creep their way into my games.Baggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05708014842299337127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8235780216768938812020-12-02T10:40:14.610-05:002020-12-02T10:40:14.610-05:00The weirdness/silliness of the FF was my initial r...The weirdness/silliness of the FF was my initial reaction too. The "oddly specific" nature of some entries didn't throw me off as much as they all seemed like great ideas for adventure/encounter hooks, but I did realize I probably was going to use most of these much. Many of these seemed like "curveballs" or one-trick ponies to throw off the PCs.<br />That said there are some classic monsters in the FF. Drow, Kuo-Toa, Slaad, Death Knights, Skeleton Warriors, Bullywugs, Kenku, Githzerai & Githyanki, and many others became standards in both published adventures and my home campaign over the years.<br />Overall my problem with the FF isn't that it doesn't have high quality usable monsters, its that there are too many low quality unusable monsters and using the updated random monster tables provided will throw that junk into your adventures unless you want to fudge things. As a result, I never used those updated tables from the FF or MMII.Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00908708023237168012noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75751123794541195482020-12-02T09:10:45.142-05:002020-12-02T09:10:45.142-05:00The Monster Manual was an amalgamation of thousand...The Monster Manual was an amalgamation of thousands of years of myths put to paper. Everything (including the MMII) later felt a bit odder and more forced because they had not survived the crucible of time. We had no preconceptions.<br /><br />Now, 40 years later, the odd has become a bit more familiar, and it's easier to see the merits of the FF and MMII.<br /><br />The grittier FF art was off-putting to me too, back then. Like you, I appreciate it more now. <br /><br />Nice article.squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64826654084962355142020-12-02T08:36:57.788-05:002020-12-02T08:36:57.788-05:00I always appreciated the art of the FF but yes, th...I always appreciated the art of the FF but yes, the monsters were a mixed bag, mostly...bonkers.<br />I mean that both in a good and a bad way. One of the things that confer D&D its charm, imho, is the self-aware absurdity of it all, the humor (and that was perfectly captured in Wormy).<br />I actually prefer the githzerai to the githyanki, but probably my favorite non-MMI humanoid monsters are the Derro.artikidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17474295473142339717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-84439555814619652502020-12-02T08:16:08.901-05:002020-12-02T08:16:08.901-05:00The British Old School is something for which I ha...The British Old School is something for which I have not quite developed a proper appreciation. I really should try to rectify that.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.com