tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post542810485834901240..comments2024-03-19T03:02:38.228-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: In Case You Somehow Haven't Seen It ...James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-84879423182633036122011-12-27T19:08:12.257-05:002011-12-27T19:08:12.257-05:00Tolkien is pretty boring as a thinker and writer. ...Tolkien is pretty boring as a thinker and writer. its about time fantasy celebrates more radical writers who arent tied to "worlds" and quasi-fascist sport team "races" who reside in their own areas, boring romantic Heideggerian similarities with technology vs. nature, etc, etc.. yeah, we get it, he spent a lot of time constructing it. that doesnt mean its amazing.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06816975649174987528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61703671303679617152011-12-23T22:08:23.556-05:002011-12-23T22:08:23.556-05:00The line about fate, isn't "fate" ak...The line about fate, isn't "fate" aka forshadowing. He's saying he's not responsible if the hobbit dies, even in the books thorin scoffed at the idea that bilbo would be any help--in fact that is a central conciet of the LotR ouvre--that nobody thinks hobbits can be heroes.UWS guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01277557128674527225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15484911364538269992011-12-23T14:19:44.943-05:002011-12-23T14:19:44.943-05:00check out this comment on the youtube page:
http:...check out this comment on the youtube page:<br /><br />http://i.imgur.com/e9WwU.jpgnefffffffffffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12056944417895418143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23180312091866420102011-12-23T12:03:27.925-05:002011-12-23T12:03:27.925-05:00I didn't care for most of the changes the scre...I didn't care for most of the changes the screenwriters made, but they successfully dodged several egregious blunders that were considered during filming. If they keep their priorities straight, consistently going back to the text when a problem emerges, they should be all right.<br /><br />Despite my disapproval for the lame dialogue the screenwriters introduced, I did think Jackson was wise to expand Arwen's involvement in the trilogy. She was little more than a footnote in Tolkien's books, but his writings make it clear that she held an important place in his vision of Middle-Earth's history: the Evenstar to balance Luthien's Morning Star. As such, she needed a stronger presence. (I am glad that the filmmakers resisted the Hollywood formula enough to keep Aragorn's and Arwen's romance distant through most of the trilogy, revealing their story through flashbacks and dreams. That required more vision than most studio-types possess.)Sir Wulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08511479387177383215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40030888032450044352011-12-23T11:19:28.724-05:002011-12-23T11:19:28.724-05:00I wouldn't mind Jackson flushing out his writi...<i>I wouldn't mind Jackson flushing out his writing team, actually, as I don't think Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens have been positive influences on his filmmaking and I think most of the bad decisions on the LOTR movies stem largely from their screenwriting (Boyens in particular seems prone to crowing about how her scripting improves on Tolkien's story).</i><br /><br>Indeed. <i>Most</i> of my beefs with the films have their origins in the screenplays.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-72991897485223795452011-12-23T06:09:44.450-05:002011-12-23T06:09:44.450-05:00Actually, I think there's one comment here bit...Actually, I think there's one comment here bitching about textual fidelity, and maybe half a dozen comments bitching about bitching.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59734893065018033422011-12-22T21:32:07.759-05:002011-12-22T21:32:07.759-05:00I swear. it is like listening to fundamentalists ...I swear. it is like listening to fundamentalists whine over changes in interpretation of the Bible.Andrew Logan Montgomeryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16862829026060203177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30882499894129003722011-12-22T17:58:45.837-05:002011-12-22T17:58:45.837-05:00He's just saying he won't be held responsi...He's just saying he won't be held responsible in the event of Bilbo's grisly death.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50456935704113501142011-12-22T15:25:09.408-05:002011-12-22T15:25:09.408-05:00The line about "fate" that Thorin speaks...The line about "fate" that Thorin speaks of is what really unsettles me, as if Thorin saw Bilbo as anything more than a prospective thief at that point and had any idea of what lay ahead for him. It reeks to me of adding nonsensical "epicness" to a story that wasn't quite as world-spanning as the Lord of the Rings.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09358099916267465455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-70999027932160596292011-12-22T14:45:17.602-05:002011-12-22T14:45:17.602-05:00"I'm concerned that while turning The Hob..."I'm concerned that while turning The Hobbit into two separate films, he will consider doing similar violence to its basic architecture. If he has the same team of writers and advisors as he had for LotR, he'll be safe. If not, he may again be tempted to cut loose with some sort of Hollywood bastardization."<br /><br />I wouldn't mind Jackson flushing out his writing team, actually, as I don't think Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens have been positive influences on his filmmaking and I think most of the bad decisions on the LOTR movies stem largely from their screenwriting (Boyens in particular seems prone to crowing about how her scripting improves on Tolkien's story).Andyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14624614486574035692noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37316513063900708802011-12-22T13:14:08.448-05:002011-12-22T13:14:08.448-05:00@aycorn: Despite what I said earlier, I actually l...@aycorn: Despite what I said earlier, I actually liked his early films too, quite a lot more than anything he's done since The Frighteners.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07090296806321882601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8953554231877927952011-12-22T12:41:08.977-05:002011-12-22T12:41:08.977-05:00While I enjoyed Jackson's Lord of the Rings fi...While I enjoyed Jackson's Lord of the Rings films, his comments in the bonus tracks left me concerned about some of the bizarre changes to the trilogy that had been considered in different parts of the production. In order to satisfy the Hollywood-types, they had considered extensive deviations from the original texts, such as placing Arwen in Helm's Deep or having Aragorn battle a physical manifestation of Sauron at the Gates of Mordor. <br /><br />I'm concerned that while turning The Hobbit into two separate films, he will consider doing similar violence to its basic architecture. If he has the same team of writers and advisors as he had for LotR, he'll be safe. If not, he may again be tempted to cut loose with some sort of Hollywood bastardization. <br /><br />From Hollywood's perspective, the text's obvious weak points include its lack of a "dashing figure of romance" to be its central hero, and its lack of a romantic subplot. Would-be screenwriters are told to always include such elements, because "if you don't, they'll just plug one in". I hope that Jackson has the integrity to resist such tampering. (A Gandalf/Galadriel romantic angle would irritate me: "Don't screw with the canon", I say.)<br /><br />The films of the trilogy did disappoint me in one respect: Peter Jackson doesn't have near the love of Tolkien's words that I do. It's natural that an artist in a visual medium might not see the magic in a well-turned phrase, but he repeatedly sacrificed thoughtful, eloquent dialogue in favor of cheap one-liners.<br /><br />(I also would have liked to see Del Toro's take on the project, with Peter Jackson in the Executive Producer's seat. Del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth showed great originality and imagination in how it unveiled its mysteries.)Sir Wulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08511479387177383215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18670798258456105592011-12-22T12:07:01.785-05:002011-12-22T12:07:01.785-05:00Well, I too am in the minority. I think Jackson a...Well, I too am in the minority. I think Jackson and Del Toro (yes I know he's off the project) are the two best fantasy filmakers of the moment. I actually like the LOTR films better than the books (heresy, I know) so his changes do not trouble me. I was a Jackson fan for some time before LOTR, anyway - found his crude early films hilarious and loved "Heavenly Creatures." I, too, liked "King Kong" a lot - and most of what I like about it seems to be what other hated. And, Don Glut to the contrary, I do love the original "Kong." Del Toro's adaptations are fun and his originals are outstanding - "Pan's Labyrinth" alone assures him a place in Valhalla, as far as I'm concerned.<br /><br />So, yeah ... very much looking forward to "The Hobbit" and the trailer only whets my appetite more.aycornhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08098064529676071855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90960031283871263272011-12-22T07:56:08.133-05:002011-12-22T07:56:08.133-05:00For Hobbit i expect more historical classical feel...For Hobbit i expect more historical classical feel. I think the best depiction of hobbit in media other than media is the graphic novel by David Wenzel,( http://www.davidwenzel.com/hobbit.html# ) his illustrations capture mythic classical atmosphere perfectly. For the movie, i think that overly action oriented scenes, fancy leather clothes with enormous weapons, trendy modern looks for dwarves or deviations from plot for popularity is not for me.yegenekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17256862706646389798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52205984174065398672011-12-22T02:47:30.633-05:002011-12-22T02:47:30.633-05:00UnderwhelmingUnderwhelmingartikidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17474295473142339717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45737261889294180082011-12-22T01:51:10.119-05:002011-12-22T01:51:10.119-05:00There's no reason to leave anything out and li...<i>There's no reason to leave anything out and little reason to add anything - other than a fanboy gee ain't it cool factor.</i><br /><br />I'm sure the filmmakers foregrounded Galadriel in order to cover their female-demo bases. <i>The Hobbit</i>'s short on notable female characters, let alone glamorous and sympathetic ones.Leo Richard Comerfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13824237190916037661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17970374526071192022011-12-22T00:48:01.811-05:002011-12-22T00:48:01.811-05:00John said...
@Unknown: I do, but not because of th...<i>John said...<br />@Unknown: I do, but not because of their deviations from the text. Basically they were overwrought. PJ wouldn't know subtlety if it hit him with a plank, and the plank is on fire and has a grenade strapped to it and the grenade sings showtunes.</i><br /><br />Exactly. I am indifferent to PJ's adherence or lack thereof to the source material. I approach adaptations as their own thing (doing otherwise leads to madness). It's his ham fisted TV movie directorial style I dislike. I honestly enjoyed FotR, but the other two, however, we're real letdowns. Of course, some of the problems can be attributed to the supporting cast as well. Orlando Bloom and John Rhys Davies, for example, are best experienced in small doses, preferably doled out whilst I am at the concession stand or, more appropriately, in the rest room.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145284080419502886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-55976881944480762102011-12-22T00:00:41.451-05:002011-12-22T00:00:41.451-05:00"Hey, it's not an either/or situation. I ..."Hey, it's not an either/or situation. I can watch the movie and whine!"<br /><br />Amen, brother, amen.The Wasphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08636805818054637966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21738087312077164872011-12-21T23:49:05.880-05:002011-12-21T23:49:05.880-05:00If it bothers you so much that Thorin doesn't ...<i>If it bothers you so much that Thorin doesn't look dwarfy enough, don't watch the movie. Then the rest of us won't have to hear you whine.</i><br /><br>Hey, it's not an either/or situation. I can watch the movie <i>and</i> whine!James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85013429672864074752011-12-21T23:45:15.808-05:002011-12-21T23:45:15.808-05:00What bothers me the most about the lack of textual...What bothers me the most about the lack of textual fidelity is that there is no reason for it not to exist. They're making 2 long movies out of a single book. There's no reason to leave anything out and little reason to add anything - other than a fanboy gee ain't it cool factor.<br /><br /> Sure movies are visual, blah, blah, blah and things have to be changed from a book to the screen. No, they don't always have to. Particularly when you have all the money and directorial authority that Hollywood's granted a success like PJ.<br /><br /> As for the dwarves - that was gone through here when the publicity shots of each one made it appearance months ago. They look a little better here in action than in the publicity stills, but Thorin still looks off to me.<br /><br /> I've never gotten over how drastically PJ changed the attitudes and motivations of characters in LOTR and I don't doubt we'll encounter similar manifestations of his meddling here. <br /><br /> Do I want to see this? Of course, I can always hope it's sort of enjoyable and I like the way PJ envisions the landscapes of Middle Earth. And maybe, just maybe, he'll prove me and the tons of grumblers wrong.The Wasphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08636805818054637966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61371191864312074472011-12-21T22:56:16.824-05:002011-12-21T22:56:16.824-05:00If it bothers you so much that Thorin doesn't ...If it bothers you so much that Thorin doesn't look dwarfy enough, don't watch the movie. Then the rest of us won't have to hear you whine.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04732052814850525574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32195221104903983302011-12-21T21:45:21.711-05:002011-12-21T21:45:21.711-05:00Robot Wrote:
@James; as far as I know, Angels do ...Robot Wrote:<br /><br />@James; as far as I know, Angels do not engage in extramarital affairs. SO yes, the allusory glance with Galadriel is unsettling. <br /><br />Actually Angels did do that sort of thing. Thats where Nephilim came from.<br /><br />Whether Gandalf would is whole different question.<br /><br />I am quite looking forward to this movie though I'll pass on 3d thanks. It will be out in 2d sooner than later though.5stonegameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10694550968360550229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38204861530655071272011-12-21T20:39:21.432-05:002011-12-21T20:39:21.432-05:00Maybe this Galadriel is more of a nod to the slutt...Maybe this Galadriel is more of a nod to the slutty version of her from Bored of the Rings?<br /><br />Speaking of which, Ralph Bakshi needs to get to work on an animated movie of BOTR.Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78538993697136583562011-12-21T19:48:32.662-05:002011-12-21T19:48:32.662-05:00What's wrong with two of the Three's ringb...What's wrong with two of the Three's ringbearers meeting? It's likely Elrond shows up in that scene too, meaning they are all present for discussion.freebfrosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01851863049585101395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29838240662332652552011-12-21T19:02:15.655-05:002011-12-21T19:02:15.655-05:00Since I do not have the emotional ties to Tolkien ...Since I do not have the emotional ties to Tolkien shared by many of my gaming bretheren, I find the Lord of the Rings films almost more enjoyable than the books. <br /><br />That said, I prefer the Hobbit leaps and bounds over the grand trilogy. So far this looks good. I will wait and see with an open mind.Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.com