tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post5824846814525022679..comments2024-03-28T01:53:34.870-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: A (Very) Partial Pictorial History of OrcsJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-778514405921040202021-08-10T05:31:30.382-04:002021-08-10T05:31:30.382-04:00I've always pictured the orcs as pig-faced, ma...I've always pictured the orcs as pig-faced, mainly due to the first image of orcs I was exposed to: the blue-snouted orcs on the back cover of The Keep on the Borderlands. I must say that I enjoy variations on that theme however.SCE DMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10473859875347172757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48779274122264617982021-08-01T02:13:47.210-04:002021-08-01T02:13:47.210-04:00Glad to see someone else mention the Maleficent mi...Glad to see someone else mention the Maleficent minion connection with regard to the pig-faced orc! <br /><br />Remember that early D&D had heavy Burroughs influence, and included Martian Tharks as possible encounters in some iterations. That got cease-and-desisted, but I think the post-pig orc owes its green skin and tusks to the Burroughs Barsoomian aliens.<br /><br />The "modern" orc also owes a lot to Frazetta's grey apelike brutes, but for what it's worth I think the cover art to "Thief of Llarn" had a face that's just beautifully orcish. Surly, beady-eyed, point-eared, lantern jawed, heavy browed, prognathous, with the impression of underbitten tusks. I feel it must have been a very influential illustration for such a forgotten book. (Art apparently by Gray Morrow, though it's Frazettan enough to be misidentified as such).Rigelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17871675202419307863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6968650514388954852021-07-28T11:57:36.451-04:002021-07-28T11:57:36.451-04:00Looks a bit like Alan Lee's version --- very h...Looks a bit like Alan Lee's version --- very human.squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7701922240307983052021-07-28T06:10:06.059-04:002021-07-28T06:10:06.059-04:00This illustration, made by Swedish RPG artist Nils...This illustration, made by Swedish RPG artist Nils Gulliksson for the 1987 edition of the BRP-based game Drakar och Demoner, will forever be how I see orcs for my mind’s eye: <br /><br />https://www.svenskarollspel.nu/wikia/Orch_%28folkslag%29#/media/Fil:Folkslag_Orch_3.JPGMartinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131883711564207245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-5077365243441332582021-07-27T19:41:01.671-04:002021-07-27T19:41:01.671-04:00The Hildebrandts' orcs remind me of Alf.
I ag...The Hildebrandts' orcs remind me of Alf.<br /><br />I agree with Michael. The early D&D pig-faced orcs appear to be inspired by the Hildebrandts' orcs.Etrimynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12412524174369676893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77824683898448221702021-07-27T14:59:41.205-04:002021-07-27T14:59:41.205-04:00Did you had a look on Tignous art fot the french R...Did you had a look on Tignous art fot the french RPG Rêve de dragon : http://ekladata.com/dNsn91IlGtlKcjCZdhJIOQtBQjE.jpgNicolas Dessauxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03010015806129652185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58626440211843974942021-07-27T11:29:41.978-04:002021-07-27T11:29:41.978-04:00Those Hildebrandt orcs look a bit dragon-ish too.
...Those Hildebrandt orcs look a bit dragon-ish too.<br /><br />I like Franzetta's, but the Bakshi orcs were such powerful imagery. When the animated LotR hit the theaters, it overwhelmed my mental imagery even though I'd already read (and re-read) the books many times.<br /><br />D&D's pig-faced orcs---like the spritely elves of the Monster Manual---is a depiction that seems to diminish them to the comically inept. Both are hard for a Tolkien fan to shallow.<br /><br />That said, what World of Warcraft has done to romanticize the muscle-bound orcs is a hundred times worse. squeenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15975523149573452984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20416396953501161092021-07-27T10:00:14.510-04:002021-07-27T10:00:14.510-04:00Orc is obviously from William Blake ...
But ther...Orc is obviously from William Blake ... <br /><br />But there was some sort of lawsuit about TSR using LOTR names, wasn't there? So then we got Treants, Balors, Halflings, etc. Nevertheless, D&D to my mind has a far more Swords & Sorcery feel. Even if Gandalf can be modelled as a Lvl 5 Druid.Thomas Lindgrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10529775120938964314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3925780811399503272021-07-27T07:07:36.554-04:002021-07-27T07:07:36.554-04:00The proximate source for DCS’ pig-snouted orcs (19...The proximate source for DCS’ pig-snouted orcs (1977) was the Brothers Hildebrandt 1976 Tolkien Calendar (in particular, “Captured by the Orcs”). The Hildebrandts were fans of Disney, especially Sleeping Beauty (which was theatrically rereleased in 1970). Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08868302412533031659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17021144027728677852021-07-26T22:59:10.243-04:002021-07-26T22:59:10.243-04:00I wonder how much orcish iconography influenced, o...I wonder how much orcish iconography influenced, or was influenced by, Maleficent's pig-faced minions in Disney's "Sleeping Beauty" (1959) and Jabba's Gamorean guards in "Return of the Jedi" (1983).Simon J. Hogwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07709835550452996449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10469141578280016552021-07-26T21:20:31.006-04:002021-07-26T21:20:31.006-04:00You guys go ahead. I'm gonna sit this one out...You guys go ahead. I'm gonna sit this one out.Etrimynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12412524174369676893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26718628331340236202021-07-26T20:49:32.091-04:002021-07-26T20:49:32.091-04:00Piggy orcs are the best orcs. It is there in the n...Piggy orcs are the best orcs. It is there in the name ain't it?Brianne, You may call me Mistressynesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00855760861411516801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1887773678573527962021-07-26T18:39:35.819-04:002021-07-26T18:39:35.819-04:00Gygax protesteth too much when it comes to his too...Gygax protesteth too much when it comes to his too-cool-for-school attitude about LOTR. He obviously cribbed tons of stuff from Tolkien. Perhaps its the creative content version of how he avoided acknowledging all the people in the war-game community that he raided for basic rules in Chainmail and early D&D.<br />JohnEilerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18288185520072519535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76905047507855154662021-07-26T17:15:12.589-04:002021-07-26T17:15:12.589-04:00I just love the idea that gygax wasn't influen...I just love the idea that gygax wasn't influenced by LOTR... where else was there orcs? I know where tolkien got it, but where else was it?Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09872338936249305301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66947498156852501592021-07-26T16:46:47.750-04:002021-07-26T16:46:47.750-04:00Prior to the Holmes Basic rulebook, Sutherland had...Prior to the Holmes Basic rulebook, Sutherland had pig-faced orcs in Swords & Spells (1976). See art here on the <a href="https://oldschoolfrp.tumblr.com/post/115126326617/pig-faced-orcs-attack-david-sutherland-from" rel="nofollow">Old School FRP tumblr</a>. And before that, the Brothers Hildebrandt <a href="https://www.theonering.com/galleries/professional-artists/the-two-towers-art/merry-and-pippin-captured-by-orcs-greg-and-tim-hildebrandt/" rel="nofollow">had green, pig-faced orcs in the 1976 Tolkien Calendar</a>, which would have been published before the end of 1975.Zenopus Archiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14069501995927451558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38715736004450241002021-07-26T16:31:33.810-04:002021-07-26T16:31:33.810-04:00I've never had a clear mental image of what I ...I've never had a clear mental image of what I think orcs should look like... but I dislike the direction GW took them, huge with enormous tusks. <br />I think I prefer the more human/simian take... similar to the Sagoths of Pellucidar.Timmy Crabcakeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737954661234574830noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-13901091330900839532021-07-26T15:40:43.680-04:002021-07-26T15:40:43.680-04:00To see Dee's depiction of a (cyclops-) orc, on...To see Dee's depiction of a (cyclops-) orc, one need look no further than that peerless masterpiece of beauty, Deities and Demigods:<br /> <br />https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/0d/29/e50d2927f05f9ec086827cbff15fc693.jpg<br /> <br />Because of this image, my PCs wore belts diagonally across their chests for years.Etrimynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12412524174369676893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19589517871119019902021-07-26T15:04:44.750-04:002021-07-26T15:04:44.750-04:00Great topic! I have an irrational fondness for pig...Great topic! I have an irrational fondness for pig-faced orcs, simply due to D&D nostalgia. But not green orcs for some reason.<br /><br />When forced to think about it, I really like the depiction of orcs in Jackson's LOTR trilogy. There, every orc is unique just like people. Plus they really embody Tolkien's idea that orcs are just the worst that humans have to offer, in every possible way; cannibals, sadists, rapists, cowards, killers, despoilers of nature. <br /><br />I also like Frazetta's simian orcs, even with their scifi samurai helms:<br /><br />https://www.syfy.com/sites/syfy/files/styles/syfy_image_gallery_full_breakpoints_theme_syfy_normal_1x/public/tumblr_n1ggjzsyam1rsh9xbo7_1280_3.jpg<br />Etrimynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12412524174369676893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29190230414067808922021-07-26T14:09:29.728-04:002021-07-26T14:09:29.728-04:00I suddenly realize that Dave Sutherland's orcs...I suddenly realize that Dave Sutherland's orcs looks quite a bit like the trolls, Uz, of Runequest. I never thought of that before.AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48271443078076582012021-07-26T12:24:32.948-04:002021-07-26T12:24:32.948-04:00I was wondering why any sane warrior would crouch ...I was wondering why any sane warrior would crouch with his back to the door.<br /><br />And pig-faced orcs for me!Bonnaconhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12667671409170609819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37604230682109472232021-07-26T11:51:10.791-04:002021-07-26T11:51:10.791-04:00That's true. There are a lot of half-orcs in A...That's true. There are a lot of half-orcs in A1, so you might well be correct.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11627301977579987792021-07-26T11:11:14.550-04:002021-07-26T11:11:14.550-04:00Obviously debatable, but I was always of the mind ...Obviously debatable, but I was always of the mind that Dee's depiction (and DSL's in the same work) were the Half Orcs that were pretty prevalent in A1. JEFFBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08862106711059104379noreply@blogger.com