tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post6360565495828552457..comments2024-03-19T04:29:47.922-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Imagine Magazine: Issue #1James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47082566096684795182012-11-13T17:12:06.867-05:002012-11-13T17:12:06.867-05:00Speaking as a UK gamer from the 80s, 'Imagine&...Speaking as a UK gamer from the 80s, 'Imagine' was a delight from start to its untimely finish. Different but the equal of 'White Dwarf' in its heyday (before it became exclusively a Games Workshop inhouse mag- which was the death knell for the UK hobby IMO). Despite not having played RPGs in 20 years I still recall with sadness the day my local newsagent told me 'Imagine' had ceased trading.George Burdetthttp://www.facebook.com/george.burdett.9noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37867311640413653292012-11-02T09:21:09.126-04:002012-11-02T09:21:09.126-04:00Hi Reverance Pavane, i'm trying to contact you...Hi Reverance Pavane, i'm trying to contact you.<br /><br />please post a comment on mesmerizedbysirens.blogspot.com if you read this. thanksCatacomb librarianhttp://mesmerizedbysirens.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56722305214349211002012-10-30T16:35:34.868-04:002012-10-30T16:35:34.868-04:00Good spot. I just checked Mentzer and it says &quo...Good spot. I just checked Mentzer and it says "First Printing - May 1983" - which is after this issue was published (April '83). Also, the move for Zombies (40'/round) matches Moldvay rather than Mentzer (30'/rd). So, it's definitely a B/X adventure.Zenopus Archivesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60762870854926631282012-10-26T14:03:37.003-04:002012-10-26T14:03:37.003-04:00#416#416Chris Davishttp://www.facebook.com/chrisgrantdavisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67748567478532759842012-10-26T14:02:27.033-04:002012-10-26T14:02:27.033-04:00Agreed. We are all wannabes. And so were they Im...Agreed. We are all wannabes. And so were they Imagine guys. Gygax did it. 30 issues is not success. Neither is five (looking at you GameMaster Pubs). What issue is Dragon on now?Chris Davishttp://www.facebook.com/chrisgrantdavisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19313717301010259052012-10-26T13:19:56.702-04:002012-10-26T13:19:56.702-04:00That said, I love the Pelinore/UK D&D vibe. A...That said, I love the Pelinore/UK D&D vibe. A few twits with bylines that confused happenstance with talent and grew baseless egos can't take away from its awesomeness.Chris Davishttp://www.facebook.com/chrisgrantdavisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56529332093873359692012-10-26T11:24:29.241-04:002012-10-26T11:24:29.241-04:00That said, the quality of the creative aspects of ...That said, the quality of the creative aspects of Imagine was generally very high. It was only slightly marred by the regular presence of unprofessional and rather childish opinions.Chris Davishttp://www.facebook.com/chrisgrantdavisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12516527603995537802012-10-26T10:53:15.043-04:002012-10-26T10:53:15.043-04:00I've often thought UK fantasy products had a b...I've often thought UK fantasy products had a better sense of "time and place" (for lack of a better phrase) when it came to pseudo-medieval fantasy. Most US products, while still fun, felt more like Midwestern towns with the serial numbers filed off.Anthony Raganhttp://breeland.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6616185777904828942012-10-26T10:40:15.508-04:002012-10-26T10:40:15.508-04:00I'm gonna exert my independence from Daddy by ...I'm gonna exert my independence from Daddy by being obnoxiously contrary. I will define my own identity by publicly disagreeing and undermining him. Snugly wrapped in the blanket of economic freedom he provided with his original work, I monkey do -- imitating, trying to improve what I monkey saw him do. And I monkey do it better, because I am so very full of me.Chris Davishttp://www.facebook.com/chrisgrantdavisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-86927304751061561992012-10-26T10:12:27.102-04:002012-10-26T10:12:27.102-04:00Strike "your company's founder", rep...Strike "your company's founder", replace with "co-founder of the entire subject you are discussing and the only reason you have a job or an opinion on the subject".Chris Davishttp://www.facebook.com/chrisgrantdavisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49466303914779783332012-10-26T10:07:33.291-04:002012-10-26T10:07:33.291-04:00There is a way to exert independence or filter for...There is a way to exert independence or filter for your audience without willfully biting the hand that feeds you. It's called tact or finesse or diplomacy or persuasiveness. Things (mental) teenage rebels don't have. So, as a test, today go in and ridicule, in print, the work of your company's founder, to his face, and see how long you keep your job. Anyone that doesn't do this (everyone here that has a job) is positing disingenuous arguments about different markets, credibility, blah, blah, blah, if they're defending the blind and self-righteous STUPIDITY of those involved.Chris Davishttp://www.facebook.com/chrisgrantdavisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87957856629234320532012-10-26T09:58:07.254-04:002012-10-26T09:58:07.254-04:00There's probably some truth to that, but Gary ...There's probably some truth to that, but Gary Gygax has always been relevent, perhaps more so today than in the past few decades with the return of the old ways of gaming, the rise of the retro clones and so on. While Arneson had the idea with Blackmoor and no doubt was brilliant, it was Gygax that could take the unrefined ideas and turn them into real gems. Take a look at the Blackmoor supplement some time and you'll see that Arneson had some crazy, whacky and terrific ideas .. but the rules around them are not so good. His hit location charts spring to mind here. Whereas Gygax defended (in print form within Dragon) the decision to make combat more abstract than this... resisting critics who advocated just such systems becoming part of core D&D. Some of those critics did spin their ideas off into their own games and we are better off with them doing it as it gave us more choice in the marketplace. So Gygax wasn't really wrong about any of this.<br /><br />I mentioned Apple earlier because Steve Jobs also had a reputation for not tolerating the ideas of others and I suppose, staying true to his vision of things should be. He was another mega-success story. So there may be something in this approach, after all.The Recursion Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41857042743406151932012-10-26T09:50:54.624-04:002012-10-26T09:50:54.624-04:00Having read several issues of Imagine prior to eve...Having read several issues of Imagine prior to ever seeing the above comments by Gygax, I was left feeling disappointed by the immaturity and amazed at the lack of professionalism. It was, and still is, idiotically self-indulgent, amateurish, and pretentious yet juvenile -- the dark side of some geeks' eternal childishness.Chris Davishttp://www.facebook.com/chrisgrantdavisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76441889502592228072012-10-26T06:56:41.864-04:002012-10-26T06:56:41.864-04:00Having started gaming in '83 with a bunch of f...Having started gaming in '83 with a bunch of friends via the Mentzer Red Box set before quickly moving to AD&D, Imagine captured the spirit of gaming at that time, it also had the air of inclusiveness rather than requiring you to have extensive background knowledge. <br /><br />When I eventually discovered Dragon it seemed a dry and dense magazine, almost off-putting.<br /><br />As with a lot of items 'back in the day', the magazines were rolled up, thumbed, torn, drawn on and generally thrown away after a few months.<br /><br />So finding the complete set of 30 issues, in mint condition, nearly 14 years ago, is still one of the best gaming finds I've made.Blumfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7994603102988201512012-10-26T05:18:14.183-04:002012-10-26T05:18:14.183-04:00The reason for the neophyte articles was of course...The reason for the neophyte articles was of course the newsstand distribution, and the new readership that they thought they would reach.<br /><br />White Dwarf did the very same when they became available at the newsstands. "The Name of the Game" (#52, April 1984) was an article series that ran for 4 issues and portrayed the different RPGs that were available back then. <br />But even before that they had article series aimed at beginners, like "Introduction to D&D" (#23, February 1881, 5 issues) and "Introduction to Traveller" (#36, December 1982, 4 issues).<br /><br />Regarding critical reviews: What I really liked about the US Dragon Magazine during the late 80s and early 90s were reviews by Allan Varney, often grouped thematically ("horror games"), and the critical view they took of TSR's offerings when directly compared to the competition. More often than not the competing products would receive better grades than TSR's fare...<br /><br />So the US branch did basically the same, what was EGG ranting against?<br /><br />And finally, offering an English edition of the Dragon, comprised of 50% content from the US edition, would have been stupid beyond belief. With a foreign language edition this would have made sense but not in the same language.<br />This would have split the readership who would not have wanted to buy 50% content twice, and not only in England, but internationally. In Germany I bought and read both Dragon and Imagine (and White Dwarf), I wouldn't have done so if they had had overlapping content.<br /><br />The English branch of TSR was allowed to do what they felt nessecary for their market. Other licensors were not given that free rein, and that was one of the reasons why D&D failed so miserably on the German market.Mondbuchstabennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39713955484167347792012-10-25T13:31:34.342-04:002012-10-25T13:31:34.342-04:00I think that's an interesting point, pookie, a...I think that's an interesting point, pookie, and highlights one of the differences between American fantasy and British fantasy I've been trying to put my finger on: grit. Perhaps even a bit of grime as well. As a borad generalisation, I think American fantasy tends to be more clean-cut, more idealised. Ours has - or had - dirt under its fingernails.Andrew Staplesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4841415961501287062012-10-25T10:54:57.657-04:002012-10-25T10:54:57.657-04:00re: the english: 'duh.'
gygax says in th...re: the english: 'duh.'<br /><br /><br />gygax says in the interview that he had a private fiefdom at TSR, where he could plug away at whatever little projects tickled his fancy. for a guy whose first hit game was in no small measure a written expansion of another guy's ideas, that sounds nonideal... one suspects that he'd've stayed more relevant post-AD&D had he been part of a wider conversation about what the rapidly-changing playerbase wanted from games.<br /><br /><br />interest: exhausted. i'm out.Wallynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19665088722382249052012-10-25T07:51:50.857-04:002012-10-25T07:51:50.857-04:00Andrew Staples:
"I think you're right wit...Andrew Staples:<br />"I think you're right with the pinch of salt. Either that, or Gygax really didn't know us Brits. Royal Dragon? How frakkin' patronising. That'd have gone down like a ton of lead."<br /><br /><br />I have to agree with that. Especially at the height of the Cold War in the '80s there was a lot of resentment of America and Americans, probably more than today. You see it in White Dwarf's hostile reviews of Twilight: 2000 and The Price of Freedom. And Brits are very ready to detect and despise the whiff of being patronised. I think in marketing terms, Turnbull probably did take the right approach for the British market.simontmnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-603721057698878972012-10-25T04:05:01.359-04:002012-10-25T04:05:01.359-04:00The english do not have issues of control or a var...The english do not have issues of control or a variety of nature/nurture issues; you sound like a racist! If you were attempting to be funny, you just made yourself look like a fool.<br /><br />Back on point though, spinning what's there as being that Gary Gygax didn't want to listen to criticism isn't actually very accurate, by my reading of this. What he's saying is that the criticism should be coming from another source if in print form, which has merit to it. Would Apple let Apple employees openly criticise the new iPad in an Apple funded magazine? If you think so, you are kidding yourself. You just don't hear about it. On a wider point, time and again Gary wrote that people should spin their ideas off into their own games and thereby let the market test their validity. His were already proven by the fire of the marketplace and indeed have stood the test of time and indeed is what the OSR is often trying to return to. Yet it takes no effort to criticise, hence his point of view.The Recursion Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54488969034286467122012-10-24T20:11:31.950-04:002012-10-24T20:11:31.950-04:00Thanks for the kind words. :)Thanks for the kind words. :)Anthony Raganhttp://breeland.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26739248611993581802012-10-24T17:49:15.187-04:002012-10-24T17:49:15.187-04:00I too rushed to get this from the newsagents after...I too rushed to get this from the newsagents after seeing a<br />copy on the proprietor’s desk in a secondhand bookshop (that my father had designed and built!) and got every copy after. Where I received my issues of White Dwarf via<br />subscription, Imagine was available locally and provided a very good<br />counterpoint to White Dwarf. It was always slightly less polished as it kept<br />touch with the fanzine routes.<br /><br /><br />Imagine did contain American content – early issues<br />reprinted character classes like the Barbarian, the Cavalier, and the<br />Acrobat-Thief, but this became less and less as the magazine acquired its own character.<br />Its focused issues were always a pleasure – Imagine #14 was a favourite – and the<br />home grown material always held an edge and a grit that is absent in magazines<br />such as Dragon. It is a pity that the house setting of Pelinore never saw<br />publication beyond the pages of Imagine, as it can be as the genesis of the<br />style that would come to the fore in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. <br /><br /><br />Anyway, this retrospective series is going to be a genuine<br />pleasure. Thank you, James.pookienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9697144980913793532012-10-24T17:47:48.934-04:002012-10-24T17:47:48.934-04:00I too rushed to get this from the newsagents after...I too rushed to get this from the newsagents after seeing a<br />copy on the proprietor’s desk in a secondhand bookshop (that my father had<br />built!) and got every copy after. Where I received my issues of White Dwarf via<br />subscription, Imagine was available locally and provided a very good<br />counterpoint to White Dwarf. It was always slightly less polished as it kept<br />touch with the fanzine routes.<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />Imagine did contain American content – early issues<br />reprinted character classes like the Barbarian, the Cavalier, and the<br />Acrobat-Thief, but this became less and less as the magazine acquired its own character.<br />Its focused issues were always a pleasure – Imagine #14 was a favourite – and the<br />home grown material always held an edge and a grit that is absent in magazines<br />such as Dragon. It is a pity that the house setting of Pelinore never saw<br />publication beyond the pages of Imagine, as it can be as the genesis of the<br />style that would come to the fore in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />Anyway, this retrospective series is going to be a genuine<br />pleasure. Thank you, James.pookienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45927773142808792242012-10-24T16:54:00.834-04:002012-10-24T16:54:00.834-04:00Great to see Imagine getting the recognition it de...Great to see Imagine getting the recognition it deserves, and thanks, James, for planning a series on it. Vivienne has pretty much said it; I too just picked it up from my local newsagent, and it was a very important influence on my formative role-playing years. I even consulted its club pages when I was picking a university, to make sure that wherever I ended up had a decent RPG society! A vital part of the early 80's UK gaming scene.Erzignoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38573504772015017012012-10-24T13:36:05.876-04:002012-10-24T13:36:05.876-04:00Anthony, I loved those Marienburg articles.Anthony, I loved those Marienburg articles.Kelvin Greenhttp://profiles.google.com/thekelvingreennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21841290581559523152012-10-24T12:17:45.520-04:002012-10-24T12:17:45.520-04:00This magazine got me into roleplaying, and I didn&...This magazine got me into roleplaying, and I didn't buy it through a hobby store, but spotted it one month in my local newsagents shop in southern Scotland and was intrigued enough by the cover to lift it down, flick through and buy it. Got it every month after that, and bought the earlier ones more recently on eBay. It was a very good magazine for its time, and it did a good job of introducing me to the hobby. I was rather gutted when it ended.Vivienne Dunstannoreply@blogger.com