tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post6929913628725135175..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: A ChallengeJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39011769195101392132008-10-17T10:58:00.000-04:002008-10-17T10:58:00.000-04:00CAS is my favorite pulp author, bar none.CAS is my favorite pulp author, bar none.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1829559374495971122008-10-15T20:52:00.000-04:002008-10-15T20:52:00.000-04:00If anyone is still interested in this, here is an ...If anyone is still interested in this, here is an essay by Michael Moorcock of Elric fame http://www.revolutionsf.com/article.php?id=953. It's called Epic Pooh and goes into how much High Fantasy is conservative sentimental and related to nursery rhymes. <BR/><BR/>I'd have to say I agree. Tolkiens work, for me anyway, is best used as a base to begin from and then turn inside out. <BR/><BR/>Hmm...I guess I'd rather read about Saruman as a main character. That's probably why I like Clark Ashton Smith so much.mkotschihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16442422156486691317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7398844485818527602008-07-02T12:24:00.000-04:002008-07-02T12:24:00.000-04:00If anyone is interested, there is a list of the bo...If anyone is interested, there is a list of the books Tolkien enjoyed here:<BR/><BR/>http://www.librarything.com/talktopic.php?topic=5631Akiyamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01002160797943960637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39460501231914183352008-06-30T04:23:00.000-04:002008-06-30T04:23:00.000-04:00Interesting. I would have a similar list, although...Interesting. I would have a similar list, although probably with Leigh Brackett instead of Howard (who is an influence, but more in imagery than tone) and maybe either <B>Wizardry VII.: Crusaders of the Dark Savant</B> or Jeffrey Stone's <B>Quest for the Nightstone</B> (a Hungarian fantasy novel) instead of Lovecraft - both for mixing science and technology, and the latter also for a good realisation of the small gods concept. Finally, gamingwise, Bob Bledsaw narrowly beating out Gygax.<BR/><BR/>I guess two out of five is not much, but the general direction is there.Melanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07165894144553629675noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62099545717951317962008-06-29T20:29:00.000-04:002008-06-29T20:29:00.000-04:00"There's not enough discussion of playing these ga...<I>"There's not enough discussion of playing these games we all love so much. Don't get me wrong: I think theory is very important and I think (obviously) the history of the hobby is even more important. At the same time, we are talking about entertainments here and philosophizing about games without actually playing them is about as pointlessly decadent as I can imagine."</I><BR/><BR/>This is now up on blog, right under the title.David Larkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04133630988557116729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7586449468754061672008-06-28T12:35:00.000-04:002008-06-28T12:35:00.000-04:00Here is an interesting thread on the subject of th...Here is an interesting thread on the subject of the (virtually non existant) relationship between Howard and Tolkien:<BR/><BR/>http://www.conan.com/invboard/index.php?showtopic=4374Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05646247954542936623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63866604859240313432008-06-28T12:05:00.000-04:002008-06-28T12:05:00.000-04:00Re: De CampI don't know a great deal about him as ...Re: De Camp<BR/><BR/>I don't know a great deal about him as a man or even as a writer. He's probably (along with Merritt) the author I've read least of those listed in Appendix N. From what I have gathered, he had a very high opinion of himself and frequently tried to puff himself up at the expense of others, including such writers as Lovecraft, as you mentioned.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51805457825903167992008-06-27T20:35:00.000-04:002008-06-27T20:35:00.000-04:00Wow, I am a huge Robert E Howard fan. I didn't get...Wow, I am a huge Robert E Howard fan. I didn't get into his work until the last year or so when I started reading pulp stuff. His work is my favorite fantasy world.<BR/>Ofcourse, I loved "The Dying Earth" original book. Vance is a fantastic writer, and I look forward to reading more of his work. I think Vance gotten a very unfair bad rap from all the haters of so called "Vancian Magic", from people I guarantee have never read his work and think his only purpose in life was nerfing mages.<BR/>I read nearly all of the most famous Lovecraft work recently and I can understand his influence, but I wasn't that impressed. Different strokes for different folks.<BR/>I've read one CAS story and want to read more.Thwackohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00829538057125935040noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3494511294989396762008-06-27T17:00:00.000-04:002008-06-27T17:00:00.000-04:00If I recall correctly, Lin Carter's book reference...<I>If I recall correctly, Lin Carter's book references L. Sprague De Camp as saying that Tolkien read and liked Conan. There is, so far as I know, no direct evidence of this, just De Camp's word, which, I've been lead to believe, is unreliable. I remember that someone found the pulp fantasy anthology that De Camp gave to Tolkien when they met in the late 60s.</I><BR/><BR/>Ah, just so. I had forgotten that the info was second hand through de Camp. While I have no specific reason to believe it isn't true, both Carter and de Camp would have had a vested interest in tying the two together, considering all of the Howard pastiches and "posthumous collaborations" with REH they were doing back then and the contemporary Tolkien mania. <BR/><BR/>de Camp doesn't seem like the most reliable dude, I'll agree. I've read de Camp "biography" of HPL, and while truly entertaining it is so condescending (and at points, even downright contemptuous) to the gentleman from Providence that one wonders about LSDC's agenda.metamorphosissigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163514061779555557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47779136933812069892008-06-27T16:56:00.000-04:002008-06-27T16:56:00.000-04:00With respect to the original post, I have this to ...With respect to the original post, I have this to say: "Yup. Same."Matt Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678557558458924177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42111495242146127782008-06-27T14:11:00.000-04:002008-06-27T14:11:00.000-04:00Re: Tolkien and HowardIf I recall correctly, Lin C...Re: Tolkien and Howard<BR/><BR/>If I recall correctly, Lin Carter's book references L. Sprague De Camp as saying that Tolkien read and liked Conan. There is, so far as I know, no direct evidence of this, just De Camp's word, which, I've been lead to believe, is unreliable. I remember that someone found the pulp fantasy anthology that De Camp gave to Tolkien when they met in the late 60s. The volume contained a Conan story, but, based on marginal notes, Tolkien only seems to have read -- and disliked -- a Lord Dunsany story contained therein. I'm inclined to think that, if there were incontrovertible evidence that Tolkien liked and approved of Howard's writings, we'd see a quote or two plastered on every Howard collection ever published.<BR/><BR/>Or it could in fact be try, but I am deeply skeptical.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19103030793580891922008-06-27T13:30:00.000-04:002008-06-27T13:30:00.000-04:00IIRC the reference to Tolkien having read Howard a...IIRC the reference to Tolkien having read Howard and enjoying his work is in the Lin Carter paperback appreciation of the LotR "trilogy". The quote from the good professor is something along the lines of, "I quite enjoy the Conan stories." I'll try to find the exact citation, if you're interested. Definitely not an urban legend, though.<BR/><BR/>I agree that Middle-earth is not that "gamable" in the sense of an RPG campaign setting. I was thinking more of his depiction of mythical creatures like halflings, elves, etc. and how that got translated over into D&D. Halflings will always be "hobbits" to me (and look, act, accordingly, which is why I hate 3e halflings), all D&D elves will always seem like fairy-like, less grand shadows of JRRT's elves, etc.. <BR/><BR/>Ironically, my own worldview couldn't be further from Tolkien's along every possible axis, yet <I>The Hobbit</I> was literally the first fantasy novel I read, so remains my first love/influence.metamorphosissigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163514061779555557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38244939205421765652008-06-27T11:23:00.000-04:002008-06-27T11:23:00.000-04:00I thought the whole Tolkien being a fan of Howard ...I thought the whole Tolkien being a fan of Howard was an urban legend. I'd be tickled if it turned out to be true, though.<BR/><BR/>As to Tolkien himself, I would say he's been a <I>huge</I> influence on me personally. I actually find that my own worldview matches up with Tolkien's in quite a number of places, which is no surprise to anyone who knows me. In gaming, though, I'm not much influenced by him. I don't think Middle Earth is a very gameable setting and I shy away from Tokienian interpretations of many fantasy elements in my own campaigns. <BR/><BR/>All of this is to say that I respect and admire Tokien as a man and as a writer, just as I recognize the debt all fantasy gaming owes to his idea. However, I don't look to him as an influence in my games, except perhaps subconsciously.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69175649867905693152008-06-27T11:14:00.000-04:002008-06-27T11:14:00.000-04:00These authors were all strong influences on my own...These authors were all strong influences on my own approach to RPGs as well. Personally I would feel compelled to add Tolkien to the list (near the top). Clearly he wrote in an entirely different fantasy tradition than the pulp guys, and the two styles are incompatible in many ways, but I don't think the seminal nature of LotR (in particular) can be overstated. <BR/><BR/>I know it's fashionable in some circles to leave Tolkien out of these kinds of "influence" lists, especially since Gygax himself downplayed (if not outright disowned), but EGG was almost certainly in the minority among the founders on FRPGs in that respect. Tolkien by his own admission, was a fan of REH and there is some similarity in their world-building approaches. <BR/><BR/>I'm by no means claiming that you should feel compelled to list Tolkien, just wondering what role his work played in your own development, and/or where you think he fits into the tradition of RPGs.metamorphosissigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163514061779555557noreply@blogger.com