tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post6931618900745715535..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Dwimmermount, Sessions 33-34James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6927069443754635542010-03-18T22:30:37.955-04:002010-03-18T22:30:37.955-04:00That Gelatinous Cube model.. whereever did you fin...<i>That Gelatinous Cube model.. whereever did you find such a thing? It looks great!</i><br /><br>It's an Otherworld mini. You can find a link to their site on the right hand side of the blog.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-7746390714930748152010-03-18T15:02:27.255-04:002010-03-18T15:02:27.255-04:00That Gelatinous Cube model.. whereever did you fin...That Gelatinous Cube model.. whereever did you find such a thing? It looks great!FeelinZombifiedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12335655076199322349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54569797976410979732010-03-16T21:56:21.715-04:002010-03-16T21:56:21.715-04:00I'd be curious (in possibly future blog posts)...<i>I'd be curious (in possibly future blog posts) what kinds of things you are adding? and why?</i><br /><br>That's the plan. I've already added some spells, monsters, and magic items from AEC. I'll almost certainly add more as time goes on.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17518971387873065062010-03-16T21:54:58.753-04:002010-03-16T21:54:58.753-04:00I wonder if 3e's insistence on the use of batt...<i>I wonder if 3e's insistence on the use of battle mats and such, that contributed to the decline in mapping skills. Or, was it White Wolf-like story games, which may not use maps at all?</i><br /><br>I think the deterioration of mapping skills happened way before WW or 3e appeared on the scene. As I recall, most gamers abandoned maps -- and dungeons -- during the tail end of 1e and certainly during 2e.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26135791479002713122010-03-16T21:45:57.538-04:002010-03-16T21:45:57.538-04:00I also started with a simple system for simplicity...I also started with a simple system for simplicity(LL) and find it hard to resist expanding it before I even start playing it.<br /><br />I'd be curious (in possibly future blog posts) what kinds of things you are adding? and why?Norman J. Harman Jr.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01319655075997712313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33212052489173930602010-03-16T21:21:54.588-04:002010-03-16T21:21:54.588-04:00I wonder if 3e's insistence on the use of batt...I wonder if 3e's insistence on the use of battle mats and such, that contributed to the decline in mapping skills. Or, was it White Wolf-like story games, which may not use maps at all?jdh417https://www.blogger.com/profile/14541882649762424101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1324804591387297692010-03-16T20:00:30.363-04:002010-03-16T20:00:30.363-04:00Nice write-up..Dwimmermount is your own creation, ...<i>Nice write-up..Dwimmermount is your own creation, I take it?</i><br /><br>Yes, it's the megadungeon around which my OD&D campaign currently revolves.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52386035226503864492010-03-16T19:59:35.313-04:002010-03-16T19:59:35.313-04:00Don't rush into the weapons speed modifiers an...<i>Don't rush into the weapons speed modifiers and such, and your game will still stay fast and breezy.</i><br /><br>There's little danger of that. I never used speed factors when I played 1e back in the day, though I did use weapons vs. AC adjustments. I'm often tempted to use them in OD&D, but I have come to enjoy the speed of combat as it is that I don't think I'm missing much.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34325410251706876872010-03-16T19:57:51.384-04:002010-03-16T19:57:51.384-04:00It is certainly not heroic and it is not the only ...<i>It is certainly not heroic and it is not the only motivator (I would hope, anyway), but good mapping can create compelling adventuring.</i><br /><br>Yep. I think the ever-growing map of Dwimmermount is one of the things that's kept the campaign going for as long as it has. My players are very motivated to explore the place to the fullest, which, being a megadungeon, will take forever. I'm constantly adding new levels to the place, as well as changing details here and there in order to keep it "fresh."James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25392251308802174472010-03-16T19:55:39.909-04:002010-03-16T19:55:39.909-04:00I hope this isn't a patently dumb question, bu...<i>I hope this isn't a patently dumb question, but how do you handle the acquisition of hirelings/retainers/men-at-arms?</i><br /><br>I actually crib the rules from Moldvay/Cook for hirelings/henchmen, which dictate the number of each a character may have based on his Charisma and how loyal they will be. Those same rules also include rough costs per month to employ them, which I have rejiggered slightly. The PCs often share their wealth with hirelings and henchmen get a half share of XP each in addition to any monetary rewards their masters grant them.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65711316468044593202010-03-16T16:40:23.444-04:002010-03-16T16:40:23.444-04:00@David:
The maps I draw as we go are done with pen...@David:<br />The maps I draw as we go are done with pencil on graph paper, either freehand or with a straight edge. Once I get a collection of related maps I often convert them to campaign Cartographer just for the practice.<br /><br />The dungeon tiles are indeed Hirst arts blocks. Specifically the Fieldstone mold #70 and the Flagstone tile mold #260. These are a new design that I built more recently than the older modular dungeon we'd been using. Yes the blocks are unpainted, The local store where I buy my plaster also sells plaster colourant that gives it that nice gray colour out of the mold. <br /><br />I have some more pictures of the whole set I've made so far at http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k285/SH_Sagan/Terrain Work/<br /><br />@Anthony<br />I have made some small attempts to make a 3D dungeon out of all my maps. The main stalling point is that I'd do this through the use of AutoCAD and 3DSMax, both of which will require me to make a huge number of tools to create the maps. I just haven't had the time and energy to do this so far.<br /><br />So so far the maps of Dwimmermount are a stack of pieces of graph paper and a few Campaign Cartographer files. <br /><br />We have however used the maps as overlays for each other to determine if stairs lead somewhere we've been. Just this session last we found some stairs up that after consulting the old maps we determined leads to an area of the dungeon that we've not been yet.Magnavoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11869288382891827153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37618049717875922352010-03-16T14:56:38.598-04:002010-03-16T14:56:38.598-04:00Really, guys, "curse"? I never looked up...Really, guys, "curse"? I never looked upon added options as any sort of "curse", merely a natural projection of expectations as players get more experienced and want more variety. We all know the one guy who has every item in the DMG memorized; he's the guy we invented the Bracers of Invisibility or Ring of Missile Protection for. Nothing wrong with it, I consider it one of the great strengths of the game, and it doesn't have to end up with stacks and stacks of supplements being the inevitable endgame.Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40732851167964347872010-03-16T14:42:32.322-04:002010-03-16T14:42:32.322-04:00I'm curious, James: have your players (or just...I'm curious, James: have your players (or just the mapper) tried to capture the 3D aspect of your dungeon, the vertical axis and the way the levels relate to each other? Or do they simply have a flat map for each level? Most dungeon designs I've seen (not many in recent years, I'll grant) are flat, using only the X and Y-axes, rarely taking advantage of the Z.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3040516189172214792010-03-16T14:28:19.502-04:002010-03-16T14:28:19.502-04:00Chello!
Nice write-up..Dwimmermount is your own c...Chello!<br /><br />Nice write-up..Dwimmermount is your own creation, I take it?<br /><br />I've been tempted to get some Hirst molds myself, but my wife threatened me with bodily harm. I'm allowed to have them when the oldest daughter goes to college and her bedroom becomes my study and I can store them there! :)Anthony N. Emmelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14017952532295866111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77413924287641516552010-03-16T13:05:59.920-04:002010-03-16T13:05:59.920-04:00Thanks Richard - I'm familiar with a lot of wh...Thanks Richard - I'm familiar with a lot of what you mentioned, so that will be very easy/convenient for me to adopt. <br /><br />Much appreciated.Stephen Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872161469696334548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37543221127258568622010-03-16T13:05:58.920-04:002010-03-16T13:05:58.920-04:00I went the opposite way over the decades - scaling...I went the opposite way over the decades - scaling back my 1st edition AD&D to proto-AD&D you describe. Don't rush into the weapons speed modifiers and such, and your game will still stay fast and breezy.Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28893174511098811392010-03-16T13:00:41.028-04:002010-03-16T13:00:41.028-04:00clarification: compensation equivalent to a year&#...clarification: compensation equivalent to a year's typical pay for an agricultural worker at the place of enlistment... whatever you adjudicate that to be. I'm not suggesting that dungeoneers are likely to need threshers or ploughmen in their party, but ag. work tended to be paid at fairly constant rates across early modern Europe and provided a handy going day rate for labour; it informed a bunch of ideas about proper pay even in industries - such as piracy and privateering - where day rates were not used.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9912586422328755382010-03-16T12:54:48.045-04:002010-03-16T12:54:48.045-04:00Another great constant, from the Barbary galley to...Another great constant, from the Barbary galley to the Caribbean pirate to the Timawa slave-raiders to the East India companies, that's bound to discomfit long-time players: compensation was almost always paid for injury or loss of ability arising from the venture. Very often where dependents were known about that included compensation to them for a death. Such compensation tended to be fixed, not variable with profits, and could be 6 months or a year's pay for an agricultural worker in compensation for the loss of an arm, leg or eye.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66797206676834096782010-03-16T12:48:21.634-04:002010-03-16T12:48:21.634-04:00In the spirit of being helpful even if I'm but...In the spirit of being helpful even if I'm butting in, I have a suggestion for S. S., CFA regarding paying hirelings:<br />If dungeon-delving is a rare/novel activity in your setting, let the players try to work it out, and roleplay through the resulting labour disputes. I have a sense it'll add to the depth and engagement of the game.<br />If dungeon-delving is well established as a kind of industry, but you want a nice "period feel" for it, can I recommend Bartholomew Roberts' Articles of Account (should be possible to find online, otherwise there's a copy in Angus Konstam's <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Pirates-1660-1730-Elite-Angus-Konstam/dp/1855327066/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268757745&sr=8-3" rel="nofollow">Pirates 1660-1730</a>. Opinion is divided over whether they were <a href="http://madmariner.com/seamanship/piloting/story/ECONOMICS_OF_PIRACY_082509_SP" rel="nofollow">happy socialist-anarchists</a> or <a href="http://blindkat.hegewisch.net/pirates/piratelaw.html" rel="nofollow">dowtrodden petty tyrants</a>, but in general they operated share systems rather than wage systems, and fairly egalitarian share hierarchies, with the captain getting maybe 4 shares, an ordinary sailor getting 1 share and a boy getting half a share - similar divisions are found on English and Dutch privateers, and privateering was actually a respectable, legal profession.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-5406126884360263462010-03-16T11:24:53.262-04:002010-03-16T11:24:53.262-04:00James, I agree that megadungeon play and mapping g...James, I agree that megadungeon play and mapping go hand-in-hand. Not only is mapping almost compulsory, an incomplete map drives much of the game...What's behind this door over here? Does this corridor connect with that room over there? It is certainly not heroic and it is not the only motivator (I would hope, anyway), but good mapping can create compelling adventuring.Rustyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01786312855250456688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9215148752317130882010-03-16T11:04:36.679-04:002010-03-16T11:04:36.679-04:00I hope this isn't a patently dumb question, bu...I hope this isn't a patently dumb question, but how do you handle the acquisition of hirelings/retainers/men-at-arms? <br /><br />I always felt the D&D (or rather, AD&D) rules were a bit vague. Do they get a day/month wage? A full share of the treasure? A half-share? Whatever the players role-play? <br /><br />I'm about to begin a new campaign and have surprisingly never had players who wanted to use retainers. I suspect this group will be different and would like a pointer or to (or a reference to the rule(s) I'm missing). <br /><br />Thanks!Stephen Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12872161469696334548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67997173844046953092010-03-16T10:26:25.896-04:002010-03-16T10:26:25.896-04:00I love it! I do have a couple of questions - what...I love it! I do have a couple of questions - what do your players maps look like? Do they use graph paper, or freehand it? <br /><br />It's nice to see a Hirst Arts dungeon on the table. It looks unpainted? And how much do you have built up? Can we get some more pictures, and maybe a post on how you use it for your games?David The Archmagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649391406526258069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31952105867156866422010-03-16T10:09:36.801-04:002010-03-16T10:09:36.801-04:00Problem is: where does it stop?
That's why I s...<i>Problem is: where does it stop?</i><br /><br>That's why I started with OD&D, since I can add to its basic skeleton selectively and doing so establishes no expectation that any given rule or element of 1e will necessarily be present. <br /><br />That said, I do think <i>D&D</i> does languish under a "curse," one that it shares with many RPGs. That's why I've made a great effort to keep the game as simple as possible and to introduce new rules/elements only when they serve a useful purpose.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88658774264423194292010-03-16T09:58:48.253-04:002010-03-16T09:58:48.253-04:00"I've admitted on numerous occasions that..."I've admitted on numerous occasions that, deep down, AD&D will always be the edition of Dungeons & Dragons for me. My choice of OD&D for Dwimmermount's ruleset is more about wanting to scale back expectations and to keep complexity at a low level to start. However, as the campaign has evolved over the last year, I've been slowly adding rules and elements from the Supplements, bringing the game ever closer to a kind of "proto-AD&D." <br /><br />Now that's very interesting. <br /><br />Albeit being myself an "old school" D&D fan (Moldvay's Basic Set), it appears every new player I drag to our hobby eventually wants "more options" for his characters.<br /><br />That leads me to start with the Basic Set (for the absolute roleplaying beginers) and then quickly move to the AD&D1 books, which I consided, by the way, to be the REAL Dungeons & Dragons...<br /><br />Problem is: where does it stop?<br /><br />I mean: how long can we play AD&D1 before starting to "need" more stuff (weapons, spells, skills, classes, monsters, magic weapons or artifacts...)? <br /><br />Is this the D&D "curse", to reproduce the same mistakes over and over, begining with a "pen and paper" game and ending with two dozens of large books filled with new rules?<br /><br />If you compare D&D with Call of Chtulhu, the contrast is great, for this last game is pretty much the same since 1982, and I still take great pleasure to play it...Le Baronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10243853568677750451noreply@blogger.com