tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post7008442055594026474..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Gygax on Hobby vs. BusinessJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27928667971927750372010-04-23T15:14:23.387-04:002010-04-23T15:14:23.387-04:00Freud once wrote that the mark of human maturity i...Freud once wrote that the mark of human maturity is the capacity to balance work and love. I think we all, like EGG, struggle with that balance at times. I suspect Rudy Kraft caught him on a bad day.Matthew Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17343263539473683579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85784226760241903552010-04-21T22:59:17.451-04:002010-04-21T22:59:17.451-04:00I know Gary had a weekly game when he was working ...I know Gary had a weekly game when he was working on Lejendary Adventure. He also worked on designing stuff about twelve hours a day before his stroke. He was proud of his work ethic...<br /><br />Anyway, maybe the man was going through a frustrating period at TSR, and wanted to warn would-be designers that it ain't all "fun and games", that it's hard work. Who knows? He'd said such things in the past. When asked about working in the RPG industry, Dave Arnesons advice was simply, "don't quit your day job". Just so.<br /><br />I do know for a fact he played through his own material when designing for Lejendary Adventure and Troll Lord material. And I also know, beyond a doubt, he wasn't one to cynically push out formulaic filler crap, just to put it on sale with his name on it. He always took pride in his efforts (however it was received).<br /><br />-dan crossNathalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15126829124055535761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22560710438833530382010-04-21T16:25:10.504-04:002010-04-21T16:25:10.504-04:00(aside: prozine, not fanzine; another one that did...<i>(aside: prozine, not fanzine; another one that didn't quite make it, alas)</i><br /><br>You must forgive me; I'd never even heard of <i>Gryphon</i> until this week. Looking at issue 1, though, you're right. It's quite clearly intended to be a professional magazine on par with <i>Dragon</i> or <i>Different Worlds</i>. Its subscription price was $40 annually, which would have been rather expensive in 1980, I think.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31042238279291463702010-04-21T16:17:19.134-04:002010-04-21T16:17:19.134-04:00Didn't exactly do EGG much good, did that?
Bo...Didn't exactly do EGG much good, did that?<br /><br />Bob Bledsaw managed both well enough. As did Greg Stafford. As did the GW guys. etc.<br /><br />(aside: prozine, not fanzine; another one that didn't quite make it, alas)irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3314834488245195972010-04-21T10:57:40.700-04:002010-04-21T10:57:40.700-04:00@Chirine ba Kal
"The art of writing, versus ...@Chirine ba Kal<br /><br />"The art of writing, versus the art of playing, may very well be 'different enough' to avoid the problem."<br /><br />Well, when I get home, I usually don't want to edit any more text. I realized this rather sharply when I started preparing S&W pamphlets for an upcoming game.<br /><br />Playing is a different job from reffing is a different job from designing, but they share a core you have to stay connected to. Or that I have to stay connected to, anyway.Rose Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16201318275929153053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-86138736427448750072010-04-21T10:07:22.638-04:002010-04-21T10:07:22.638-04:00Following up on your comment, I think it may have ...Following up on your comment, I think it may have to do with how close your hobby is to your job; when I was in the business of casting up miniatures and flogging them off at conventions, the last thing I wanted to do when I got home was paint up more of the things. The art of writing, versus the art of playing, may very well be 'different enough' to avoid the problem.chirine ba kalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15089801259918671141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4811229663853912662010-04-21T10:04:31.127-04:002010-04-21T10:04:31.127-04:00Plus, and maybe I'm going off the deep end her...<i>Plus, and maybe I'm going off the deep end here, but. Some things are vocations, the old-fashioned literal Catholic way.</i><br /><br>If that's the deep end, I'm off it too.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89989080535978089902010-04-21T10:03:08.250-04:002010-04-21T10:03:08.250-04:00"I'm glad to hear that. I don't think..."I'm glad to hear that. I don't think it has to be true, which is why I find Gary's comment a little frustrating. Perhaps I'm naive but I see no reason why one's avocation cannot also be one's vocation."<br /><br />There's no absolute reason. I mean, sometimes you have to grow up, but that doesn't mean you can't grow down again. Life is change, and so are schedules.<br /><br />Plus, and maybe I'm going off the deep end here, but. Some things are vocations, the old-fashioned literal Catholic way.Rose Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16201318275929153053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57004161438657612312010-04-21T09:40:40.921-04:002010-04-21T09:40:40.921-04:00But I don't want to leave aside the insinuatio...<i>But I don't want to leave aside the insinuation that once you get a job it all becomes "uninspired, soulless," and worst of all, unplayed. Not true.</i><br /><br>I'm glad to hear that. I don't think it has to be true, which is why I find Gary's comment a little frustrating. Perhaps I'm naive but I see no reason why one's avocation cannot also be one's vocation.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24357907971309686662010-04-21T09:30:21.094-04:002010-04-21T09:30:21.094-04:00I work in games, full time. I'm a designer, an...I work in games, full time. I'm a designer, and that means I play a lot. I playtest my own stuff, and I play a fair amount of other people's stuff.<br /><br />But it's not really about me. I'm not a business guy. My bosses, and their bosses, the business guys, they all play weekly games.<br /><br />Sometimes, yeah, you come home and you don't want to run a game because you've been scratching out probabilities all day or checking lists of powers for problematic side effects. It happens.<br /><br />I know jack shit about Gary Gygax, but I know you can make games and play games. It's not something I'm willing to let go of.<br /><br />Maybe Gary didn't have time, and, you know, that's cool. Different things take up different people's time. I think he had kids, among other things.<br /><br />But I don't want to leave aside the insinuation that once you get a job it all becomes "uninspired, soulless," and worst of all, unplayed. Not true.Rose Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16201318275929153053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9589317880770301782010-04-21T07:43:55.876-04:002010-04-21T07:43:55.876-04:00I'm not sure Gary worked on things he didn'...I'm not sure Gary worked on things he didn't play, but rather he was providing a cautionary tale that running a business is more than just playing games all the time and then publishing your best work. There's a lot involved in running a company like early TSR--payroll, accounting, earnings, taxes, licensing, coordinating sales and business/convention trips, etc. Even assuming most of the busywork is handled by staff, it is a tasking job.<br /><br />I have a feeling if things proceeded as they did, Gary would have still authored but he would have given primary D&D writing duties to another--either Zeb Cook or Jeff Grubb or both seemed to be the candidates being groomed for those roles, before the fights with the board started.<br /><br />They say when your hobby becomes your job, find another hobby. However, I did see Gary playing and enjoying games, so I doubt it was as grim as some profess. <br /><br />I feel a similar situation came with Roger Moore. Roger Moore was one of my favorite authors in Dragon Magazine. Yet, as soon as he became the actual editor (as opposed to "contributing editor", a fancy word for a writer who's in every issue), his output was almost non-existent. I kind of wish somebody else had become editor because I missed Roger Moore's writing so much.JRThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06028363896728357260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-53313557018966768982010-04-21T07:12:50.149-04:002010-04-21T07:12:50.149-04:00@ James: I don't want to be nasty, but have yo...<i>@ James: I don't want to be nasty, but have you played all the material you produced as freelance over the years?</i><br /><br>Nope -- and I'd be the last person to call that a praiseworthy practice. My best stuff, then and now, arose out of actual play and, having had the experience of freelancing, I don't think I'd ever want to go back to it.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81661935092271496242010-04-21T05:49:26.076-04:002010-04-21T05:49:26.076-04:00quote: "it's sad to see him imply that he...quote: "it's sad to see him imply that he'd worked on things he hadn't actually played"<br /><br />@ James: I don't want to be nasty, but have you played all the material you produced as freelance over the years?KristianHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00232005660954059260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89030611413985317072010-04-21T02:06:46.396-04:002010-04-21T02:06:46.396-04:00I've just been promoted from staff writer to d...I've just been promoted from staff writer to deputy editor on a weekly magazine, and I hardly have time to write any articles now, no matter how interesting I find a given topic. <br /><br />My week's mostly filled with copyediting, fact-checking and managing workflow between editorial and design. Writing takes a very different frame of mind to all that.<br /><br />I can't imagine how much Gary's workday must've changed with the insane growth of TSR!Shane Cubishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09439632627554929290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31681565660306578472010-04-21T00:35:17.599-04:002010-04-21T00:35:17.599-04:00You know, all the successful video game companies ...You know, all the successful video game companies I worked with or near were started by two guys, childhood or college buddies: one with an engineering degree, the other with an MBA.<br /><br />It's possibly tragic that Gygax didn't have a second partner that he found trustworthy at TSR to handle the business end.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63945897708014236512010-04-21T00:13:26.666-04:002010-04-21T00:13:26.666-04:00Running an organization can be very difficult, bot...Running an organization can be very difficult, both time consuming and emotionally draining. One gathers that Gary himself had hoped creating a game company out of his beloved hobby would not be so hard, that he would still have been able to be primarily a gamer and only secondarily a businessman. His comments feel like words of wisdom to warn off others from going through what he went through unless that's really what they want.<br /><br />Kudos to Rudy Kraft for drawing out this moment of insight.Rick Marshallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01707062453047354335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46422162095206900262010-04-21T00:03:51.839-04:002010-04-21T00:03:51.839-04:00You may well be right, as Gary notes earlier in th...You may well be right, as Gary notes earlier in the interview that he only runs the Greyhawk campaign 3-4 times a year at most. Still, that too is sad.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32613259166325003002010-04-20T23:16:11.463-04:002010-04-20T23:16:11.463-04:00Seems to me he was referring to running a business...Seems to me he was referring to running a business and not game design itself. He had less time to play and I would assume design games. Would seem to be the case considering how long ToEE took to come out, not to mention Greyhawk and the rest...The Proper Ganderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16763626491655026793noreply@blogger.com