tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post7743225548457939984..comments2024-03-19T03:02:38.228-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: Adventures in FantasyJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46017602194647952282010-04-10T17:07:58.869-04:002010-04-10T17:07:58.869-04:00James has given a kinder (and fairer IMHO) review ...James has given a kinder (and fairer IMHO) review of AiF than I usually see for the game. Although it is much more polished than first Fantasy Campaign there are still a few gaps, rough spots unexplained terms/stats and rule contradictions that would make it difficult to play without a bit of fudging. Still, for me its very cool stuff.<br />One reason tracking time was important for Arneson is that he had his players chracters doing a lot of between adventure stuff; so one might be building a temple, while another was attending a university, while somebody else was engaged in a trading venture.DHBoggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02170439175265397893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64582967868498198652010-04-09T02:12:02.835-04:002010-04-09T02:12:02.835-04:00Historical Footnote:
I was working for Dave at th...Historical Footnote:<br /><br />I was working for Dave at the time at Adventure Games, as the chief 'Tekumel Boat Person' (as he described us); the staff at AGI was made up of Dave's friends from the First Minnesota ACW reenactment group, and none of them were fantasy gamers of any type. Ken Fletcher and I were the only people there with any fantasy gaming experience; Richard was a free-lance author, and rarely in the shop.<br /><br />The problem with AiF wasn't that is was a bad game or anything, it was simply one of no marketing. Dave had bought it back from Excalibur with the money that the first of his settlements with TSR, and like many other of the AGI product line was more or less just there because Dave or one of his friends had done the game. There was no real 'in-house' support for this game like there was for, say, "Compleat Brigadier", and it has to be said that there wasn't much support for fantasy gaming of any kind in house.<br /><br />AGI's Tekumel line existed because of Dave's personal friendship with Phil, and my presence at AGI was a direct consequence of that. It always amazed the AGI staff that we 'boat people', so-called because we lived on pallets in AGI's basement under tarps (it was a very wet basement!) could sell our rather recondite products and the main AGI line never seemed to sell at all; I kept pointing out that one needed to run games at conventions and advertise the heck out of a game, otherwise it'd never sell to anyone.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure that all the remaining copies of AiF went to Flying Buffalo when Dave closed AGI; you might want to try them to see if they have any copies left...<br /><br />yours, Chirinechirine ba kalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15089801259918671141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42730216667738110902010-04-08T16:22:21.053-04:002010-04-08T16:22:21.053-04:00I always thought the emphasis on time accounting w...<i>I always thought the emphasis on time accounting was because Gygax expected GMs to be running multiple, potentially interacting groups in the same campaign setting. One group of adventurers might pass a lot of "game-time" quickly crossing a wilderness, while another beavered away in the dungeon. You needed to know how their actions affected the dungeon/wilderness environment.</i><br /><br>Correct. This is made explicit in later parts of the DMG section I quoted. I think this assumption on Gygax's part is another big element that shows how contemporary play is quite different from its forebears.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39229076805548193732010-04-08T16:01:53.214-04:002010-04-08T16:01:53.214-04:00Rach's reflections said...
As a devoted A...<i>Rach's reflections said...<br /><br /> As a devoted Arnesonian, this is quite interesting to me. I'd love to get a look at the rules, see how they play.</i><br /><br />Rach, as a devoted Arnesonian, you should join us at <a href="http://blackmoor.mystara.us/forums/index.php" rel="nofollow">the Comeback Inn!</a> :)Havard:https://www.blogger.com/profile/03672640381532559035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39551507147923813122010-04-08T12:41:06.902-04:002010-04-08T12:41:06.902-04:00"Well, James is right... AIF is pretty much w...<i>"Well, James is right... AIF is pretty much what Dave thought D&D should have been (and pretty much WAS the way he ran it).<br /><br />And TSR didn't "suppress" it. It just never really caught on.<br /><br />Old Geezer, RPGnet"</i><br /><br />Was it that AiF was poorly marketed, then, or was 'the Arneson experience' simply untranslatable to another game-table?Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30387969324984985432010-04-08T07:13:46.874-04:002010-04-08T07:13:46.874-04:00I never kept any detailed records of exactly what ...I never kept any detailed records of exactly what time it was or how much time had passed, initially. Eventually I had some players who hung on my every word saying "but it was summer last week," so I began keeping general notes re: season or month. Usually it would be a week or less game-time between adventures (as we had hp come back completely between adventures).<br /><br />That being said, I own AIF, thanks to the magic of Ebay. It's been awhile since I looked at it, but I remember the combat system being kinda interesting, but it needed more tables telling you the modifiers to hit. If I were to play it, I'd probably ignore the fiddly bits (like maintaining skills) and it would end up a lot like Moldvay or Holmes-era D&D. <br /><br />And I'm looking forward to downloading Dragons at Dawn too! *drool*Eric R. Wirsinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632409261940844934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28089697220465775322010-04-07T23:10:37.831-04:002010-04-07T23:10:37.831-04:00Tracking time matters more if you've got a lot...Tracking time matters more if you've got a lot of players and the campaign is working more on a daily basis. You're running far more of a world & setting with interacting groups than the 1 DM - 1 Party we have (mostly) today.Merrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17977952863903634899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88978584187820135712010-04-07T22:15:59.077-04:002010-04-07T22:15:59.077-04:00Well, James is right... AIF is pretty much what Da...Well, James is right... AIF is pretty much what Dave thought D&D should have been (and pretty much WAS the way he ran it).<br /><br />And TSR didn't "suppress" it. It just never really caught on.<br /><br />Old Geezer, RPGnetUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07583187734106603845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-84567691981845394382010-04-07T22:05:42.751-04:002010-04-07T22:05:42.751-04:00I always thought the emphasis on time accounting w...I always thought the emphasis on time accounting was because Gygax expected GMs to be running multiple, potentially interacting groups in the same campaign setting. One group of adventurers might pass a lot of "game-time" quickly crossing a wilderness, while another beavered away in the dungeon. You needed to know how their actions affected the dungeon/wilderness environment. <br /><br />At the least there was an assumption that would often be characters who wouldn't be present in a given session, whether they be absent PCs, henchmen, or even NPCs.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01272921931873031194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26905293033833409412010-04-07T21:16:38.271-04:002010-04-07T21:16:38.271-04:00Count me as another who doesn't understand the...Count me as another who doesn't understand the emphasis on tracking time. Is this in regards to the D&D endgame and domains (i.e. earning from your peasants)? I just don't see that it matters if party 2 enters the maegadungeon 1 week after party 1 or 3 weeks. Any grognards with some experience to weigh in on this?Telecanterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07238356788092725244noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2708269161077779192010-04-07T18:47:44.100-04:002010-04-07T18:47:44.100-04:00I've been wanting to see a copy of this game e...I've been wanting to see a copy of this game ever since I saw the AIF-writeups in the original Thieves' World box set.Knightskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397391662639446678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67490031664016861862010-04-07T17:43:19.549-04:002010-04-07T17:43:19.549-04:00And apparently even Adventures in Fantasy has alre...And apparently even <b>Adventures in Fantasy</b> has already been retrocloned...<br /><br />http://sites.fastspring.com/apriorcrs/product/dragonsatdawn<br />http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-book/dragons-at-dawn/8609478Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68824488311244253382010-04-07T17:07:49.125-04:002010-04-07T17:07:49.125-04:00As a devoted Arnesonian, this is quite interesting...As a devoted Arnesonian, this is quite interesting to me. I'd love to get a look at the rules, see how they play.Rachel Ghoulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04765944479141792643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34437300606929333162010-04-07T17:05:33.757-04:002010-04-07T17:05:33.757-04:00I enjoyed keeping track of time in my own campaign...I enjoyed keeping track of time in my own campaigns, at least at the calendar level. Turn-by-turn tracking in a dungeon or other "tactical" setting annoyed me, however. In those cases I'd engage in hand-waving. <br /><br />On a related, Chaosium's "Cities" booklet (IIRC) had a nice section on accounting for "down time" between adventures. It included not only skill development (appropriate for their system) but tables for events that might be nothing, but might also become adventure seeds. Very handy.<br /><br />security word: "dera," dialect for a female derro.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82673360299075678692010-04-07T16:38:35.500-04:002010-04-07T16:38:35.500-04:00> But D&D? Why the emphasis?
I think Gygax...> But D&D? Why the emphasis?<br /><br />I think Gygax was right about keeping notes for a numer of reason and I wish more GM's over the years would of done so! The main one being so much goes on in a session that it's easy to forget what happens the next time you get together as the longer the sessions transpire, the more people forget. Plus, so many ideas pop up within a session that it's good to be able to jot them down should you ever want to use any of them down the road.<br /><br />Maybe even more important is to chronicle what happen for people to read such as all the fun were getting from Brother Candor and his Fortune's Fools '-)crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25601541616088329032010-04-07T16:36:54.570-04:002010-04-07T16:36:54.570-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15692179641057860532010-04-07T16:11:16.157-04:002010-04-07T16:11:16.157-04:00Richard Snider went on to create Powers & Peri...Richard Snider went on to create <i>Powers & Perils</i> for Avalon Hill, which had a few supplements: a screen, an adventure module, and a campaign environment set. I have the basic rules box and the campaign environment box.<br /><br /><i>Powers & Perils</i> had for a long time a <a href="http://www.powersandperils.org/" rel="nofollow">small group of devoted players</a> long after it went out of print.<br /><br /><i>P&P</i> had some really interesting ideas and flavour, cheek by jowl with ideas that on the page just seemed pretty unworkable for actual play (keeping track of experience for every single swing in combat, and every use of a skill: ouch).<br /><br />It's character generation system was baroque and complex, but I thought in hindsight that a properly built spreadsheet would have made it vastly simpler.<br /><br />It's entirely possible that <i>P&P</i> would make for a rather interesting "sword & sorcery" inspired gaming experience, but I have never played it.Viktorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04867648528753994863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43680585444348752082010-04-07T15:06:49.633-04:002010-04-07T15:06:49.633-04:00I had a copy of this for a while, signed by Arneso...I had a copy of this for a while, signed by Arneson no less, picked up in a secondhand bin. The same copy had been drifting around the local area for years, showing up at cons', trade tables and raffles. It was the sort of thing that seemed valuable enough to want, but once you had it you couldn't do much with it, so it soon got passed off. Continuing the tradition I gave my copy away to a fellow who ran a fun D&D3 demo back in 2000, and like to think its continued to make the rounds ever since.E.T.Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10839361427618049936noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39521912679402379712010-04-07T14:17:08.404-04:002010-04-07T14:17:08.404-04:00I can see the importance of maintaining Time Recor...I can see the importance of maintaining Time Records with systems like Runequest - where characters have the option for skill training during their downtime. (Or Gurps, with income gained through employment during downtime). But D&D? Why the emphasis? <br /><br />All that comes to mind is time to rest, and the ability to re-memorize spells. Or HP recovery. But both of these factors can be easily handwaved and, IMO, have no effect on running a MEANINGFUL campaign.KPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18374233546533225028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45298288446118927192010-04-07T13:20:03.260-04:002010-04-07T13:20:03.260-04:00Incidentally, do you make anything of the fact tha...Incidentally, do you make anything of the fact that (1) this fantasy game never caught on, and (2) has few proponents extolling its virtues as compared to OD&D. Are both simply related to AiF being somehow suppressed by T$R?Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-68399483188162429012010-04-07T12:54:42.990-04:002010-04-07T12:54:42.990-04:00I browsed through a couple of old Dragon Magazines...I browsed through a couple of old Dragon Magazines, but did not come across any adverts for AiF. How was it marketed, back in the day?Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1892628897297846932010-04-07T12:48:02.712-04:002010-04-07T12:48:02.712-04:00Thanks for this insightful review James! Very appr...Thanks for this insightful review James! Very appropriate on this day. I have only seen parts of AiF previously, so this was really something I can appreciate. The Bleakwood setting is also mentioned in the First Fantasy Campaign by the way. I wonder how similar this game is to the new retro-game, Dragons at Dawn? http://blackmoormystara.blogspot.com/2010/04/dragons-at-dawn-rpg-released.htmlHavard:https://www.blogger.com/profile/03672640381532559035noreply@blogger.com