tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post8257504721292103890..comments2024-03-18T20:22:06.331-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Pulp Fantasy Library: Rhialto the MarvellousJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59210827829348281122010-10-14T23:53:54.310-04:002010-10-14T23:53:54.310-04:00I always thought The Dying Earth was the best of a...I always thought The Dying Earth was the best of all these stories. Vance can be kind of inconsistent.<br /><br />Only sort of related, but I noticed that the guy who's doing that deep analysis of the D&D magic rules and trying to make some sort of point-based overlay for it is back at it again:<br /><br />http://feadad.blogspot.com/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35567687142148496842010-10-13T19:44:51.192-04:002010-10-13T19:44:51.192-04:00IOUN could be latin like SPQR, or INRI.
Lazarous ...IOUN could be latin like SPQR, or INRI.<br /><br />Lazarous Lupin<br />http://strangespanner.blogspot.com/<br />art and reviewLazarus Lupinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13498179029332944165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42693157006088782562010-10-12T18:56:58.592-04:002010-10-12T18:56:58.592-04:00I'm not insulting Cabell's writing, mind y...I'm not insulting Cabell's writing, mind you. I've got a ton of Cabell under my belt, and he's great if you're in the right mood for his wit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76342980354400736112010-10-12T18:55:08.167-04:002010-10-12T18:55:08.167-04:00Dude. Cabell says that every woman is the same wom...Dude. Cabell says that every woman is the same woman. That isn't real philosophy.<br /><br />I like Vance, but it took me a long time to get into his work and I still haven't really gotten into The Dying Earth or Lyonesse. I found The Grey Prince to be both accessible and thought-provoking, so you might enjoy that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40853535673285263422010-10-12T17:27:32.881-04:002010-10-12T17:27:32.881-04:00(Sorry realised I'd edited badly - this is a b...(Sorry realised I'd edited badly - this is a bit better)<br /><br />Cheer up GrumpyCelt! All style and no substance? That's the main point of Rhialto the Marvellous at least, a bunch of smartalecs who have seen and done it all several times over and posess the power of gods, but, being human, indulge in peevish squabbles and petty one up manship to give life meaning. <br /><br />There's a great line from Roger Sheckley's 'The Alchemical Marriage of Alastair Crompton' where the hero asks an immortal megabeing why his species spends so much time getting smashed out of their faces on dangerous drugs - 'Well we all acheived perfect enlightenment aeons ago. What are we supposed to do? Sit around for all eternity grinning at each other?'<br /><br />And Vances other books are not lacking in substance IMO. All his books say something about the human condition, but since Vance is a bit of a misanthrope, not everybody finds the underlying message appealing or funny.<br /><br />Have you read the first book in this sequence, the eponymous 'The Dying Earth'? A bit darker and grimmer and wears its 'meaningfulness' more shallowly. Of if you want real philosphy dressed up as really daft fantasy try James Branch Cabell instead.Baz Blatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661154817910604866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60946995801547764272010-10-12T17:24:25.107-04:002010-10-12T17:24:25.107-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Baz Blatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661154817910604866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34211804632235699302010-10-12T11:36:37.792-04:002010-10-12T11:36:37.792-04:00If you hurry over to eBay, there's a copy of t...If you hurry over to eBay, there's a copy of the Dying Earth RPG for sale (the auction ends in like an hour and a half).<br /><br />As long as you don't mind bidding on an item for sale from someone with zero feedback.<br /><br />I'd bid on it myself, but of course, it's for US bidders only...Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8594184790594865512010-10-12T06:12:15.267-04:002010-10-12T06:12:15.267-04:00I loved this book :)
and as for the genre it'...I loved this book :)<br /><br />and as for the genre it's "fantastic" at his highest, and I think that to keep it fantastic you must not know everything<br /><br />it's magic? it's tech? it's both? it's neither? who cares as long as it works!<br /><br />lately some fantasy material (also and mostly in rpg) is a little tamed because tell TOO much, the gods are this, the planes are that, magic works so and so, miracles works in this other way :( this is not good IMO at leastFabio Milito Pagliarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13043436735116048822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57299230692313043522010-10-12T05:06:21.186-04:002010-10-12T05:06:21.186-04:00Vance is another writer who I find to be all style...Vance is another writer who I find to be all style and no substance. Reading him is like eating a meal consisting of nothing but marzipan and cake frosting. It's just not something I can get into.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00801468265072232351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74849584186848833512010-10-12T04:25:25.242-04:002010-10-12T04:25:25.242-04:00Was it ever explained anywhere if IOUN actually st...Was it ever explained anywhere if IOUN actually stood for anything? It looks like an abbreviation (or initialisation), but I don't think I've ever seen it mentioned anywhere, or even what they really do, except store the owner's memories somehow.<br /><br />Vance is one of my favourite authors, I'd always read anything he cared to write.<br /><br />I'd certainly say that the Dying Earth RPG is well worth picking up if you can (I was a playtester). We've had some games that just left us laughing so hard that we couldn't play for a while.<br /><br />MarkMarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04409904855518312412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29870418811697623502010-10-12T00:03:52.467-04:002010-10-12T00:03:52.467-04:00@Michael
I've got book where this was quoted ...@Michael<br /><br />I've got book where this was quoted in storage, but Robert Silverberg wrote about he had ordered a copy of the book fully expecting a science fiction book based on how it had been advertised in a fanzine. He said it took him a long time to learn to like the book for what it was instead of what he had hoped it was going to be.Cameron Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659549078009511670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83783581380716651532010-10-11T20:19:24.806-04:002010-10-11T20:19:24.806-04:00>I'm going to put forward an assertion that...>I'm going to put forward an assertion that may qualify as heresy:<br /><br />>If written today, they would be classified as science fiction, not fantasy.<br /><br />Far from heresy, these were science fiction when they first appeared. I'm not one to quibble about genre definition, but if one is going to use the terms to meaningfully distinguish examples of literature, The Dying Earth falls under science fiction. Furthermore, The Dying Earth has served to inspire an impressive array of later sf work, foremost of which is Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun, set in a similar dying future Earth which borrows liberally from the conventions of technology and culture established by Vance, as does Wolfe's rich use of language replete with archaic vocabulary. There is a recent book of tribute fiction called Songs of the Dying Earth, edited by George R.R. Martin and Gardner Dozois.Michael Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14994557942003895872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60502389840381682052010-10-11T20:13:49.613-04:002010-10-11T20:13:49.613-04:00The Dying Earth RPG is indeed brilliant, and has C...The Dying Earth RPG is indeed brilliant, and has Cugel-level, Turjan-level, and Rhialto-level style adventures. Sadly OOP now, but the mechanics live on in Robin Laws' Skulduggery, I think...fantasygamebookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05240994072742026340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9724565417348160682010-10-11T19:15:27.413-04:002010-10-11T19:15:27.413-04:00Love the dying earth, it has a dry wit that works ...Love the dying earth, it has a dry wit that works well. I think that Gene Wolfe's shadow of the torturer owes a big debt to Vances.<br /><br />If you've not seen the RP version of the dying earth you should at least plop down the bucks for the first book. It's quick, assertive, and very much in keeping with the feeling and themes of the stories.<br /><br />Lazarus Lupin<br />http://strangespanner.blogspot.com/<br />The Antimatter of tasteLazarus Lupinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13498179029332944165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49227332270949249512010-10-11T18:37:50.975-04:002010-10-11T18:37:50.975-04:00Holy cow... I have copies of Flashing Swords 1 &am...Holy cow... I have copies of Flashing Swords 1 & 2 floating around here somewhere... Was so taken with them in my youth that I sought out Lin Carter for an autograph... Time to go digging.Andrew C. Durstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12009795254968642036noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8246509584465602822010-10-11T18:11:35.834-04:002010-10-11T18:11:35.834-04:00Kinda like the opposite of Flight of Dragons in wh...Kinda like the opposite of Flight of Dragons in which technology is the bane of magic. The super lame ending shows science countering Omedon's spells.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-qDN22rFuoARR Purcellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15199967221911382542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71816604089085991302010-10-11T16:58:48.845-04:002010-10-11T16:58:48.845-04:00Vance's Dying Earth books are nothing if not c...Vance's Dying Earth books are nothing if not consistent sources of mixed feelings. I love them for the prose and the cleverness, but at the end of the day I can't fully sympathize (in those rare cases where I can sympathize at all) with the characters. <br /><br />Which is why I prefer his later "Lyonesse" books. Same excellent prose, same cleverness, and at some points the same set pieces, but they also include characters one can root for.<br /><br />The magic system is different, though, where it is explained at all. In that, I greatly prefer the system of Dying Earth which has neither muss nor fuss.Cameron Woodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06659549078009511670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41123322673603953062010-10-11T16:00:19.746-04:002010-10-11T16:00:19.746-04:00A rib-tickler all right, and I love the idea of th...A rib-tickler all right, and I love the idea of the ultimate coven of all powerful arch magi snivelling and bickering like a badly behaved primary school class. <br /><br />BTW has anyone played the Dying Earth RPG? Not in the least old school in its mechanics, but does have the excellent idea of rewarding players XP through 'taglines', bits of Vancian dialogue that have to be delivered during play, with extra marks for making them funny.Baz Blatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09661154817910604866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-34863269398987542662010-10-11T15:45:01.306-04:002010-10-11T15:45:01.306-04:00Btw, AD&D 2nd Edition version (there may be ea...Btw, AD&D 2nd Edition version (there may be earlier ones) of the <i>robe of stars</i> says: "The garment also enables the wearer to survive comfortably in the void of outer space."<br /><br />I think that's a titillating ability and I really like the science fantasy flavor of it. It was lost in the later editions and e.g. Spelljammer just didn't capture the right kind of weirdness. (Points to 4E for its cosmology that combines space and the astral plane)Pekkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104355467265113471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63933522993656386692010-10-11T14:12:20.362-04:002010-10-11T14:12:20.362-04:00I'd agree with kipper that this is one of Vanc...I'd agree with kipper that this is one of Vance's funniest books, but it's a slow, subtle humor; if you read inattentively, you won't realize how funny what you've just read is.John Harper Brinegarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17592827787099084705noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82851708560664567052010-10-11T14:06:32.763-04:002010-10-11T14:06:32.763-04:00> "The interactions between the immensely ...> "The interactions between the immensely powerful and self-absorbed wizards is priceless and almost worth the price of admission alone."<br /><br />I agree with this statement, except I would change "almost" to "ABSOLUTELY!"<br /><br />This is actually the first Jack Vance book I ever read BitD, and I'd still rank it in my personal top 5 Jack Vance books. I find it literally laugh-out-loud hilarious no matter how many times I've read it, definitely one of the funniest books of his (equalled or surpassed only by the Cugel stories).kipperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05986436534528705471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74014951348308649022010-10-11T14:05:54.436-04:002010-10-11T14:05:54.436-04:00I have the Orb collected edition as well, though I...I have the Orb collected edition as well, though I've only read 'The Dying Earth' and the first third of 'Eyes of the Overworld'. Great stuff.<br /><br />When it comes to genres, I'll have to echo the observation/complaint mentioned by Rob (and, I think, our blog host) about the 'stratification' of genres. I just use the phrase 'speculative fiction' as an all-encompassing term for horror, sci-fi, and fantasy. It's not pretty or evocative, but it's a nice workman's term, that gets the job done. It'd be nice, really nice, if the term 'generic fantasy' was an oxymoron, but sadly, that's not the kind of world we live in.Chaos Clockworkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04122472296580033166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18471818135213096412010-10-11T13:56:02.651-04:002010-10-11T13:56:02.651-04:00It's been quite a while since I read these (an...It's been quite a while since I read these (and, in fact, the cover in the picture is the very book I have), but I think I enjoyed them a wee bit more than the Cugel stories. Regardless, in both sets of tales, Vance's ability to make one laugh as his characters rationalize the most beastly behavior is wonderful. Time to re-read, I think.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64846815945367836512010-10-11T13:40:49.933-04:002010-10-11T13:40:49.933-04:00I was wondering when you'd get around to this ...I was wondering when you'd get around to this one. Agree that it's a bit of a mixed bag in comparison to the rest of the Dying Earth stories by Vance. <br /><br />But what a great storehouse of proper names to mine for a campaign. Herark the Harbinger, Byzant the Necrope, Khulip's Nasal Enhancement,etc.Chris Kutalikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01414743509426875792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91041973342337574982010-10-11T13:34:33.655-04:002010-10-11T13:34:33.655-04:00I just finished the Orb books all-in-one collectio...I just finished the Orb books all-in-one collection of the Dying Earth stories, and I'm going to put forward an assertion that may qualify as heresy:<br /><br />If written today, they would be classified as science fiction, not fantasy.<br /><br />The setting is Earth, far in the future. The "magic" is the last remnants of technology at the Clarke's Law levels -- something like John Ringo's "There Will Be Dragons" universe. The "demons" et. al. are either aliens or constructs or both. The fantastic creatures are genetic experiments gone wrong (or right, depending) or mechanisms of long-forgotten purpose. Spells, as described in that excerpt, are programs or access codes that tap into that ancient technology.<br /><br />In one of the early stories, one of the characters flat-out states that he's been attempting to rediscover mathematics, so as to better understand magic. This, to me, reinforces the idea that magic is the remnants of technology.<br /><br />Now, this is not to say that the Dying Earth stories need to be moved from slot "A" to slot "B". More of a statement of how pigeon-holed we've let our genres become.<br /><br />(And I think this reinforces the idea that "Glory Road" was Heinlein's journey down the same path.)Rob Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03010767328260010949noreply@blogger.com