tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post8488039165274971652..comments2024-03-29T07:58:31.156-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: Middle-earth Role PlayingJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64818042078243299852020-12-31T01:36:07.568-05:002020-12-31T01:36:07.568-05:00I have very fond memories of MERP! After AD&D,...I have very fond memories of MERP! After AD&D, it was the game that my group played the most in high-school. I ran an epic campaign set in the early Fourth Age, wherein the PCs journeyed to the far north to recover the lost palantiri of Arthedain (this was based on an adventure outline in the campaign module, "Rangers of the North," which later would be developed into a full-blown campaign, "Palantir Quest").<br /><br />Yes, the magic system did not match well with the way magic is portrayed in Tolkien's stories (although later editions tried to fix this somewhat by introducing both a "corruption" mechanic and a "detection" mechanic in order to render the use of "flashy" magic more dangerous). But it was a fun system. It had all the good things from Rolemanster in it (critical hits, an intuitive skill system, etc.) but avoided RM's complexity. (Indeed, I regretted moving from MERP to RM back in the day -- the costs far outweighed the benefits.)<br /><br />And of course the maps (by Peter Fenlon) and art (especially the covers by Angus McBride, although I like the work of Charles Peale and others as well) were amazing. <br /><br />There is a MERP retro-clone -- well, not quite, but a game that is clearly inspired by MERP and compatible with its gaming materials -- called "Against the Darkmaster." I missed the kickstarter for it (I learned about it too late) but hope to get a hardcover copy in 2021. I'm sure nostalgia is colouring my judgement, but I still love the system! Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6322119471098757042020-12-31T01:19:40.363-05:002020-12-31T01:19:40.363-05:00While I like ICE's Middle-earth material a lot...While I like ICE's Middle-earth material a lot more than Robert Conley does, I do agree with him that AiME does a rather good job in adapting D&D to Middle-earth. And the AiME adventures do feel more "Tolkien-ish" than most of ICE's products ever did. <br /><br />As for the availability of AiME, will the Free League not be revising and publishing them in the future (now that they have the Tolkien license)?Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75964295468536505902020-12-27T08:20:04.613-05:002020-12-27T08:20:04.613-05:00I played in a few MERP games in the '80s and e...I played in a few MERP games in the '80s and enjoyed them well enough, but never fancied running it myself because I found the system too fiddly for my taste.<br /><br />A few years ago, I discovered Mike Davison's little supplement "Drums in the Deep: Dungeon Crawling in Middle-earth". I thought it very elegant and clever (especially the idea of the Ranger class as a variant of the Cleric) and I was inspired to dig out the old I.C.E. module Hillmen of the Trollshaws and adapt it to make an adventure I'd be happy to run. "Drums in the Deep" is written for Holmes Basic but I used Swords & Wizardry Core, which is pretty close. The floor plans in those I.C.E. modules are often praised, and I was struck while stocking my version of Cameth Brin (the Dúnedain fortress which is principal location in Hillmen of the Trollshaws) by the fact that it's a very good example of a "Jacquayed" dungeon, with multiple entrances/exits and complex connections between different levels, some obvious and others concealed or well-guarded. Anyway, it worked well. We had a good time and my players commented positively on the way the Middle-earth setting affected the "flavour" of the game sessions. In general nowadays I prefer to run campaigns set in worlds of my own creation, but I'm also cooking up at least one more adventure set in Middle-earth, because sometimes it's just fun to put one's own twist on a familiar dish.ClawCarverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236809815213343281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2698530857613622592020-12-27T06:48:12.697-05:002020-12-27T06:48:12.697-05:00Quite so! The way I see it, we know there are all ...Quite so! The way I see it, we know there are all sorts of strange folk - Men, Dwarves, Wizards, and what have you - travelling through Bree-land and staying a night or two at the Prancing Pony. They're not all carrying Rings of Power, nor holding the fate of Middle-earth in their hands, but certainly some of them are having their own adventures, and those are ripe with roleplaying possibilities. ClawCarverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236809815213343281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40994494857265931062020-12-27T01:26:04.404-05:002020-12-27T01:26:04.404-05:00I found AiME to be attractive in appearance, but p...I found AiME to be attractive in appearance, but pretty awful as a game owing to the terrible mechanics that basically call for way too much rolling in place of actual roleplaying. And the classes were some of the lamest I've ever seen in an RPG. So I sold all my AiME stuff. Plus, I'll never touch anything connected to 5e or WoTC again owing to their ridiculous SJW stances. So I'll likely skip the new game as I still own pretty much the whole MERP run.Persimmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966572602767972805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35450005544358963412020-12-27T01:16:41.814-05:002020-12-27T01:16:41.814-05:00Love MERP despite its issues. It was our main gam...Love MERP despite its issues. It was our main game of choice in the mid to late 90s. But man, those criticals made it ridiculously lethal. We lost lots of PCs and several others were maimed in various ways, as healing magic wasn't all that widespread.Persimmonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02966572602767972805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16692587538056436282020-12-26T19:54:22.076-05:002020-12-26T19:54:22.076-05:00The Rise Up Comus blog also has a great blog post ...The Rise Up Comus blog also has a great blog post about using the 1937 version of The Hobbit as a setting.<br /><br />http://riseupcomus.blogspot.com/2017/09/1937-hobbit-as-setting.htmlNarmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635665594860371230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36748431208223924722020-12-26T19:43:32.356-05:002020-12-26T19:43:32.356-05:00I really like both The Hobbit idea and the Star Wa...I really like both The Hobbit idea and the Star Wars idea. I've read forum threads in various places riffing on both ideas.Narmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08635665594860371230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47695863126005674482020-12-25T21:57:00.218-05:002020-12-25T21:57:00.218-05:00I love this approach. I’ve been wanting to run a S...I love this approach. I’ve been wanting to run a Star Wars game along similar lines for a long time, treating only the very first film (Episode IV) as canonical.SurrenderMonkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01867098480604057724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42666449805020242802020-12-24T03:46:50.906-05:002020-12-24T03:46:50.906-05:00With my group I recently started a game of Under H...With my group I recently started a game of Under Hill, By Water, a wonderful mini-game tailored around Hobbits and their way of life. Using MERP maps and some of the sourcebooks' material as background we're enjoying immensely the minimalist feel. We set it at the start of the Fourth Age, in the Shire, of course, and the focus will be on the rebuilding of Arthedain and its effect on Hobbits' lives. We could have used The One Ring, which we played before, but, while well made, it has too many interaction rules and complications that we felt unimportant, while MERP would have been decisively too complicated. Check the game here (I have no relation with the guy who made it): <br />http://riseupcomus.blogspot.com/2017/01/under-hill-by-water.html Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24227851178435442222020-12-23T19:07:58.280-05:002020-12-23T19:07:58.280-05:00Ever since hearing about the idea of using Holmes ...Ever since hearing about the idea of using Holmes Basic as a complete game, I have thought that it would be perfect for Middle Earth in the 3rd / 4th age. You don't see much beyond 1st or 2nd level spells in the books; I'm assuming that you apply some interpretation to the text like "black dart" = magic missile and so on. Maybe some of the real heavies could have broken out a 3rd level spell or two, but PCs will not attain such heights of power.<br /><br />I like MERP, especially some of the supplements, but some stuff goes too far, particularly the "Lofty Bridge" Mage spell list that gives Fly and Teleport spells; I would have expected to see villains using those if not Gandalf (would have saved the eagles some trouble though).<br /><br />The 1642 setting is interesting since the war in the north is intriguing and lasts almost 600 years (about half of it left to go by this time). A lot of the rest of the setting doesn't look the way we would expect (no Rohan, Dagorlad, Rammas Echor, etc.) so that time period seems really tuned to Eriador. Nothing wrong with that though.<br /><br />If D&D 3rd / Pathfinder is "Tom Clancy's Lord of the Rings", MERP combat is definitely Tarantino. Lots of ears, noses, fingers, etc. going missing. I don't mind the implied realism; if you get bitten by a wolf the size of a horse, it probably should take your arm off if all you're wearing is leather.<br /><br />Were I to run it again, I would never allow access to the "Lofty Bridge" list and maybe forbid mages altogether (as PCs; plenty of evil scions of Numenor studying witchcraft to beat up). But I think it probably still holds up for OSR purposes.Korgothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04683370654357044679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-53514214958367853632020-12-23T13:03:18.530-05:002020-12-23T13:03:18.530-05:00I utterly ignore the LOTR map. I use The Hobbit ma...I utterly ignore the LOTR map. I use The Hobbit map with completely different (non-Tolkien) stuff off the edges.Geoffrey McKinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00042661843714609025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19567544756999259522020-12-23T12:57:15.793-05:002020-12-23T12:57:15.793-05:00Sadly true. The only suggestion I have is to put o...Sadly true. The only suggestion I have is to put out a call that you are interested in the two core books and see if any of your readers are willing to sell you their copies. Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69710924969580835782020-12-23T12:53:24.024-05:002020-12-23T12:53:24.024-05:00Interesting! Do you use the full map from the LOTR...Interesting! Do you use the full map from the LOTR, or just use the Hobbit map and make up your own version of what is off the edges of the map?Alanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582898842629047347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15568055144250492092020-12-23T12:49:16.416-05:002020-12-23T12:49:16.416-05:00You make excellent points, but it's probably m...You make excellent points, but it's probably moot, since I don't think the AiME books are easy to get hold of anymore, at least not in my neck of the woods.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54183326236797027792020-12-23T12:42:11.900-05:002020-12-23T12:42:11.900-05:00My AD&D games set in Middle-earth consider onl...My AD&D games set in Middle-earth consider only The Hobbit as canonical (with background flavor sprinkled in from 1930's Quenta). I set them several years after the end of The Hobbit, and they are unabashedly AD&D games. I consider only happenstance that The Hobbit tells of a halfling finding a ring of invisibility and encountering goblins on his way to steal a red dragon's hoard. It could just as well have been a gnome illusionist finding a cube of force on his way to slay some achaierai.Geoffrey McKinneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00042661843714609025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26994410483776638752020-12-23T12:24:39.565-05:002020-12-23T12:24:39.565-05:00ANother comment is that there is no reason that th...ANother comment is that there is no reason that the general design principle of AiME can't be applied to another editions of D&D like OD&D or AD&D. That by altering the "lists" the result still is recognizable as a version of the parent edition but supplies a very different experience that successfully evokes the feel of a specific setting. Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-72118619026421285652020-12-23T12:22:09.924-05:002020-12-23T12:22:09.924-05:00You do yourself a disservice in not obtaining a co...You do yourself a disservice in not obtaining a copy. It is perhaps the clearest example of how a RPG can be altered into supporting a setting with different assumptions like Middle Earth by focusing on changing the lists (class, creatures, treasure, etc) and adding a select handful of new subsystem (AiME Journeys and Shadow). Yet the result is a 5th edition RPG. <br /><br />The One Ring while an excellent Middle Earth RPG is not instructive compared than any other purpose built system designed to support a system. Even the forthcoming 2nd edition from Free League.<br /><br />Finally as for not owning 5e, the free basic rules from Wizards is all you need to supply the bits missing from AiME. <br /><br />https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrulesRobert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29351735226699146052020-12-23T11:39:00.794-05:002020-12-23T11:39:00.794-05:00Never played the system, but have the Mines of Mor...Never played the system, but have the Mines of Moria supplement that I have used for constructing Dwarf holds for 30 years. Nicely done and gave adventure seeds for different eras.of Middle Earth so you could avoid playing in the time of the Ring bearer. Rod Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12824146866756155345noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57386087098298334132020-12-23T11:20:54.811-05:002020-12-23T11:20:54.811-05:00Unless it requires the players to sings songs ever...Unless it requires the players to sings songs every couple of hours its not "Tolkien" enough for me.<br /><br />Never really wanted to play a game in Middle Earth during the events of the novels. Just like any other epic story set during a conflict say Starwars or (shuder) Dragonlance the war is won by someone else so sure you can have your own adventure but its always in the shadow of the settings true heroes. So yeah maybe moraly ambitious D&D style treasure hunters set in the aftermath of the war of the rings raiding orc lairs and such is the best approach for Middle Earth.sevenbastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11961009160456478009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45621309060754871312020-12-23T11:00:27.971-05:002020-12-23T11:00:27.971-05:00I'd wager that another reason for why it was w...I'd wager that another reason for why it was wise to put MERP in the middle of the third age/right after the great plague, besides allowing for more freedom for the player characters to make their mark on the world, is that there were simply more people, and more stuff to do in general, back then. When reading Tolkien's trilogy, one gets the impression that the crossroads village of Bree is pretty much the largest human settlement in all of Eriador by the time of the War of the Ring. During the latter half of the 17th century TA, by contrast, you at least had Arthedain alive and kicking, Tharbad was yet to be deserted (even though the rest of the petty kingdom of Cardolan had pretty much fallen apart), etc etc.<br /><br />Not to mention that Angmar is a much more interesting seat of the Big Dark Enemy than dull, dreary Mordor.Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03131883711564207245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71988234621766373792020-12-23T10:36:11.352-05:002020-12-23T10:36:11.352-05:00I have heard others say that too, so you're no...I have heard others say that too, so you're not alone in your judgment. Since I don't own or play 5e, this isn't really an option for me. When Free League's game comes out, I'll be giving it a serious look, since I've enjoyed most of their other games.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39585005232903621512020-12-23T10:20:49.249-05:002020-12-23T10:20:49.249-05:00Bought it the day it showed up on shelves. Was nic...Bought it the day it showed up on shelves. Was nice to see a lite version of RM. <br /><br />I still run any ME games (using other systems- Fantasy Age works well) in a middle Third Age period. I loved that about MERP and ICE's work.JEFFBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08862106711059104379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-19918869297356655112020-12-23T10:12:12.404-05:002020-12-23T10:12:12.404-05:00I still strongly recommend getting copies of Adven...I still strongly recommend getting copies of Adventures in Middle Earth and the Loremaster Guide for AiME. Before that I was skeptical that a D&D edition could capture the feel of adventuring in Middle Earth but AiME does it and then some.<br /><br />And it is far more approachable than the narrative driven design of The One Ring. Robert Conleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03863009007381185340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49453800217365721042020-12-23T09:32:13.601-05:002020-12-23T09:32:13.601-05:00I am actually not sure the game system is as weird...I am actually not sure the game system is as weird a match as it's sometimes portrayed. While your Middle Earth inhabitants might not go around casting Ice Bolt II at each others, I feel much of the things they cast as "magic" is there in the books, but just described as elven heritage or "pure blood" or highly skilled abilities of some of the characters in the saga. Viewed that way I think the system is a better fit that its given credit for.AndreasDavourhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.com