tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post8659720389317011097..comments2024-03-19T04:29:47.922-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Pulp Fantasy Library: The Seven GeasesJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82521987194531950262010-03-09T08:30:03.847-05:002010-03-09T08:30:03.847-05:00On consulting the Irish department in the college,...On consulting the Irish department in the college, the general consensus would appear to be that "geas" is pronounced "gee-yass" or thereabouts.<br /><br />But your mileage may vary.Conrad Kinchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15683395740934527502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31859719029752889232010-03-09T08:23:13.801-05:002010-03-09T08:23:13.801-05:00One of the reasons I love modern occultists is tha...One of the reasons I love modern occultists is that they are working very hard to create intricate art. A lot of their work crosses over with gamers' interests, and this story is one of the places where I've seen some interesting discussion. The best occultist interpretation, in my opinion, is the one in <a href="http://www.kiva.net/~julianus/voor.html" rel="nofollow">this article</a>, which combines Western Ceremonialist Cabala with Smith's work to make a beautiful interpretation of the story as one of failed initiation (not surprising, since Vooz was not exactly the enlightened sort).faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23246005156152320242010-03-09T08:14:09.238-05:002010-03-09T08:14:09.238-05:00Suburbanbanshee: It's not so simple, actually....Suburbanbanshee: It's not so simple, actually. When Cú Chulainn eats dog in violation of one of his geasa (he does so in order not to violate another of them), he immediately loses all of his strength on his left side. So, geasa can be poison.<br /><br />Geasa can also be warnings, the result of prophetic utterings of future doom.<br /><br />Further, geasa can be compulsions, as several characters in the Táin grab hold of heroes by the ears and lay a geas on them to do something-or-another. The whole issue is very complicated, not least because all of the stories we have were written at a time when those beliefs were, at best, on the wane. There's a useful, and scholarly, article on the subject called <a href="http://www.celt.dias.ie/publications/celtica/c23/c23-38.pdf" rel="nofollow">"Geis, prophecy, omen, and oath"</a> (pdf) in <i>Celtica</i> Vol. 23, if anyone is interested in following up on the concept in more detail.faoladhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-14201658039934087312010-03-09T03:05:48.161-05:002010-03-09T03:05:48.161-05:00Two notes:
1. Where do the Voormis live? At the V...Two notes:<br /><br />1. Where do the Voormis live? At the Voormis' address. Now lisp the answer and you get "Voormithadreth".<br /><br />2. CAS gives us here a sort of inverted Mount Olympus, since the "gods" of Mount Voormithadreth lives beneath rather than on top of the mountain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56073499905785872852010-03-08T22:57:00.445-05:002010-03-08T22:57:00.445-05:00I dug the story up on the net after this posting a...I dug the story up on the net after this posting and enjoyed it. It's interesting to think of all the weird fantasy tropes being invoked that were brand new at the time of writing. I also agree with some posters here that the ending was rather perfunctory, which is a sad waste of such a good setup of worse and worse chtonic horrors "regifting" the poor bastard to each other.BigFellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03052419088140204154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50567331753354146072010-03-08T21:10:54.672-05:002010-03-08T21:10:54.672-05:00The snakemen are awesome in this story.
IMO the f...The snakemen are awesome in this story.<br /><br />IMO the funniest CAS stories are The Door to Saturn (for obvious reasons) and The Beast of Prophecy (for inserting himself). The ending of Enchantress of Sylaire is priceless too.Pekkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13104355467265113471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-728585678514042502010-03-08T19:27:02.658-05:002010-03-08T19:27:02.658-05:00Oh, but it wasn't a kryptonite thing. Breaking...Oh, but it wasn't a kryptonite thing. Breaking the geas activated an evil fate to come upon you, but you weren't going to choke on the rabbit or anything.<br /><br />Anyway... I'm glad to know that there is a Great Literary Source for the gaming version of geasa. It always bothered me that the different meaning seemed to come out of left field.Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66787631047105688362010-03-08T19:22:15.324-05:002010-03-08T19:22:15.324-05:00The more important thing is that here we have the ...The more important thing is that here we have the concept of the geas binding as a _positive command_ that made you Go Places and Do Things, whereas the geasa of women, smiths, and Druids was a _negative command_ which meant death to transgress.<br /><br />You were perfectly fine if you never ate rabbit, etc., although you would probably run into a situation where you were forced to eat rabbit out of politeness and then die horribly. <br /><br />Now, if the story had been a humorous tale of how the guy tried to avoid his various geases, and how they all came down upon him at once so that he died in seven horrible ways at once or something, that would be a lot more Irish.Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-86058865140351519472010-03-08T16:57:35.312-05:002010-03-08T16:57:35.312-05:00Geas is an Irish word and as such can be pronounce...Geas is an Irish word and as such can be pronounced in a myriad of ways, and an expert will be able to tell you which part of Ireland you (or your teacher) are from based on it. I think the vowels vary east-west and the consonants north-south (might be the other way around), so you can get a pretty fine accuracy.<br /><br />Our Irish Studies teacher pronounced it "gay-ass", and we were young enough that this did not produce a flicker of amusement.Nagorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04934827653905274555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73368341207275145542010-03-08T16:12:52.675-05:002010-03-08T16:12:52.675-05:00In this respect, there's a clear affinity with...<i>In this respect, there's a clear affinity with H.P. Lovecraft's otherworldly creations, who likewise take little notice of Man.</i><br /><br />One highpoint of the story is the reptilian sorcerer's refusal of Ralibar as a specimen of humanity because, in the form of a Voormi, he already had one.<br /><br />Noted REH scholar Don Herron had an essay titled "The Double Shadow: The Influence of Clark Ashton Smith", in Underwood and Miller's JACK VANCE (Writers of the 21st Century Series) published in 1980. He notes the influence this particular story had on <i>The Eyes of the Overworld</i>.<br /><br />I personally prefer Vance's take on the "scoundrel punished by irate sorceror" tale because CAS' version ends too abruptly to be entirely satisfactory.Scallop Skulled Skaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09614954870582728737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58397200016208640202010-03-08T14:18:21.598-05:002010-03-08T14:18:21.598-05:00It all gets worse once you start associating with ...It all gets worse once you start associating with people who write dictionaries.<br /><br />I knew a cheeky professor who once cited a dictionary in a scholarly argument to shut down her opponent. Turns out she wrote that entry. =)Korgothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04683370654357044679noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18278548897362719772010-03-08T13:34:27.478-05:002010-03-08T13:34:27.478-05:00Well, the dashboard dictionary on my iBook agrees ...Well, the dashboard dictionary on my iBook agrees that it's pronounced "gesh", so it's official as far as I'm concerned. Lord knows that's the most research I'm willing to do on the subject.TyBannermanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13241483332119936529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49979028541645745722010-03-08T13:34:02.932-05:002010-03-08T13:34:02.932-05:00Mike,
There you go. We can both be right. From a ...Mike,<br /><br />There you go. We can <i>both</i> be right. From a certain point of view :) <br /><br />A happy ending for all.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90112694728033699302010-03-08T13:30:26.278-05:002010-03-08T13:30:26.278-05:00Well, EGG did suggest the anme but it came from on...Well, EGG did suggest the anme but it came from one of his stories.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robilar#cite_note-1<br /><br />Comment first, fact check later, I always say :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76240215300332634702010-03-08T13:30:22.349-05:002010-03-08T13:30:22.349-05:00Thanks for your post on Seven Geases. I have thoug...Thanks for your post on Seven Geases. I have thought about this story a lot, and I agree with your assessment. I don't read and reread CAS for balanced plot lines in a modern narrative style. CAS was primarily a poet and visual artist, therefore I succeed when I consider his stories as surreal and beautiful paintings. His literary detractors miss the point, I think.<br /><br />I deeply love Seven Geases for its raw atmosphere, style, and creativity. The underground society of scientist lizard men makes me giddy with joy. ALso, the whole subterranean setting of Seven Geases makes it a fine model for a feeling to strive for in D&D.<br /><br />Between the flavor of weirdness and the baroque verbiage, the Vance / CAS similarities are huge and I am skeptical of Vance's claims he hadn't read CAS before the 1950s.Bob Reedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12073807225519106277noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8204699786555485692010-03-08T13:13:38.575-05:002010-03-08T13:13:38.575-05:00I understand and appreciate the uses of a prescrip...I understand and appreciate the uses of a prescriptivist approach to the language arts. But I feel that I must note that if a large percentage of gamers 'mispronounce' arcane terms such as geas and melee then at some point popular opinion may trump the pedant's style guide. The most stalwart gish must bow to a million geese, in my opinion.Jeff Rientshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17493878980535235896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9387849431268182852010-03-08T13:12:55.407-05:002010-03-08T13:12:55.407-05:00Except that the "sh" sound on the end of...<i>Except that the "sh" sound on the end of "geas" isn't the same "sh" sound that exists in English. It's actually midway between the "s" and "sh" phonemes, articulated with the tongue underneath (rather than behind) the alveolar ridge -- as in Irish names (Sean, Seamus)</i><br /><br>I don't know about anyone else, but, when I say those names, I pronounce them with an "sh" sound at the beginning.<br /><br /><i>Fact of the matter is, even when you say "gesh", you're probably pronouncing it wrong.</i><br /><br>Never claimed otherwise, but "gesh," wrong as it undoubtedly is, seems closer to the truth than do most of the alternatives gamers use (or Pratchett's "geese").James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42133510313849749792010-03-08T13:07:53.350-05:002010-03-08T13:07:53.350-05:00"Melee" was a problem for us back in 198..."Melee" was a problem for us back in 1980, but "charisma" was even worse. We were talking about "CHAH-risma" for almost a year before we were corrected. :)Rob Barretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17791752557408134270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25145835441968816232010-03-08T13:02:35.689-05:002010-03-08T13:02:35.689-05:00A classic story, complete with the alpine catoblep...A classic story, complete with the alpine catoblepas.<br /><br />I enjoy re-reading this one every so often. To me the story has an almost Dunsanian quality to it, sort of like The Distressing Tale of Thangobrind the Jeweller.<br /><br />Lin Carter, some years later, virtually re-wrote this and it read like a bad train wreck.<br /><br />Leave the good stuff to the masters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35119690151287250172010-03-08T13:00:30.807-05:002010-03-08T13:00:30.807-05:00Except that the "sh" sound on the end of...Except that the "sh" sound on the end of "geas" isn't the same "sh" sound that exists in English. It's actually midway between the "s" and "sh" phonemes, articulated with the tongue underneath (rather than behind) the alveolar ridge -- as in Irish names (Sean, Seamus) or in certain Chinese words (wuxia, xiaolin). Fact of the matter is, even when you say "gesh", you're probably pronouncing it wrong.John Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06522143715905888511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23816408122854287692010-03-08T12:42:05.996-05:002010-03-08T12:42:05.996-05:00Where did you get the "Gesh" pronunciati...<i>Where did you get the "Gesh" pronunciation from?</i><br /><br>Gaelic, of the Irish variety, I believe. Most of the sources I've seen in recent years have used that pronunciation and a fellow I knew in grad school who was studying medieval Gaelic assured me that it -- or, rather, something very close to it, because I can't pronounce Gaelic worth a damn -- was the "proper" pronunciation. If I'm mistaken on this score, I'd love to know it.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65713742413512606842010-03-08T12:40:09.433-05:002010-03-08T12:40:09.433-05:00'Eiglophian' is one of these little miracl...'Eiglophian' is one of these little miracles of invented language -- it wraps around the associations of blackness and stone so perfectly that it's as though it always was there, waiting to be invented just for that purpose.<br /><br />Love this story. What a treat for the readers of WT when that issue appeared.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285645317925993821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49655877647136076632010-03-08T12:40:00.759-05:002010-03-08T12:40:00.759-05:00Terry Prachett has "geas" heard/confused...<i>Terry Prachett has "geas" heard/confused as "geese" in "A Hat Full of Sky". But of course he could also be wrong, or purposly so as it was done through two character conserving.</i><br /><br>He does and lots of gamers of my acquaintance pronounce just that way because of it.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12795117404481538132010-03-08T12:39:15.540-05:002010-03-08T12:39:15.540-05:00I had never known Jack Vance was influenced by any...<i>I had never known Jack Vance was influenced by anyone until I started reading C.A. Smith. That story, especially, must have had a huge impact on Vance. I don't feel it lessens his work any...it's just interesting to have been a Vance fan for so long, yet not know about Smith.</i><br /><br>It's interesting, because, while I agree that Vance seems to have a lot of affinity with Smith, especially stylistically, I distinctly recall reading Vance's denial that he'd read any CAS until well after he'd started writing.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75229310952556153842010-03-08T12:37:55.327-05:002010-03-08T12:37:55.327-05:00I just read this story last week and I wondered if...<i>I just read this story last week and I wondered if Rob Kuntz's "Robilar" was derived from "Ralibar" -- didn't EGG suggest the name to him and we know he loved puns.</i><br /><br>As I've come to understand it, Gygax wasn't a fan of Smith and hadn't even read much (any?) of his stuff until Rob Kuntz suggested he do so. Given that, there may well be a connection between the two names, but, if so, it comes wholly from Kuntz, not via EGG.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.com