tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post1137074418581065491..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Dwimmermount and PlotJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47699781360355837572009-11-30T21:30:02.239-05:002009-11-30T21:30:02.239-05:00I call them story seeds too - I try to create litt...I call them story seeds too - I try to create little one line events that when encountered can trigger "things", with the actual event deciding what sort of thing happens. I also try to use what I call "waves", things that will happen in the setting - things like a famine occurring in the fall - events that <i>will</i> occur unless the players do something that will affect it.<br /><br />Now Ive found that some care in seeding can let you nudge what will happen in the campaign a little, for example in the Barbarians of Lemuria Dark Sun game I'll be running the party is organized around a trader, so more of the seeds will involve trading/trade houses over more generic stuff. That way the story will involve the trader and the trade house that employs the party, but Im not scripting what, Im just tweaking the odds to accommodate that kind of story.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14741915662135713990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36834638043788667852009-11-30T12:31:38.050-05:002009-11-30T12:31:38.050-05:00"(If anyone remembers the old Islandia campai..."(If anyone remembers the old Islandia campaign products from The Companions, that's where I learned this style. They were some great adventures.)"<br /><br />Yes, good call Anthony. The Companions series presented a deatiled plot line, where events progressed (sometimes in the background) because of, or in spite of the characters actions, although characters actions could influence the final events (and even derail them completely). If the characters did nothing, events would proceed as written and it might have profound effects on the campaign. This is the style I use myself, and I have to admit I need this sort of "structure" in my campaigns to present a good game.<br /><br />In my campaign, I sketch out a short, 2-3 year "preview" of what the forces that be will do in the game world should no obstacles be placed in their path....it is up to the players, of course, whether on not they become these "obstacles" and put their mark upon history by altering these events.Badmikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06199830751033032585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40914853425257192472009-11-30T10:56:53.596-05:002009-11-30T10:56:53.596-05:00If that's so, then what *is* the difference?
W...<i>If that's so, then what *is* the difference?</i><br /><br>Well, I don't know for sure that that <i>is so</i>. I've played in enough new school campaigns -- some run by myself -- to know that there's a much greater emphasis placed on "satisfying" dramatic conclusions to adventures, character arcs, etc. than is the case in old school games. I think there's definitely a great deal more emphasis on emulating literary/cinematic techniques, often with rules to support such things than anyone ever dreamed of in the old days. There's a much greater sense that, if a player takes the time to flesh out his character's personality, background, and goals, the referee ought to make use of them, because the character is the primary locus of attention, while I think old school gaming placed more attention on the campaign itself, if that makes sense.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56809979708192343152009-11-30T10:48:16.157-05:002009-11-30T10:48:16.157-05:00James wrote: "Most of my ire is directed towa...James wrote: "Most of my ire is directed toward contemporary published adventures rather than a particular style of play."<br /><br />This makes sense. However, I think it may point to a distinction that you are drawing that isn't necessarily real. You've just said that new school modules aren't necessarily indicative of the way that people actually play the games. In other posts, you've made the same point about old D&D modules (because they're tournament modules, they don't reflect the sandbox-y character of some early games). <br /><br />So maybe the play style of the new schoolers and the old schoolers isn't that different. If that's so, then what *is* the difference?Akivahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17962605092009953080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91105045967508112422009-11-30T10:15:38.532-05:002009-11-30T10:15:38.532-05:00So is James arguing against a straw man?
I think i...<i>So is James arguing against a straw man?</i><br /><br>I think it depends on what I'm arguing against. :) Most of my ire is directed toward contemporary <i>published</i> adventures rather than a particular style of play, although I think many gamers learn the "right" way to run adventures by modeling what they see in published ones. I think adventure built on the presumption that there will be certain "scenes" or even "encounters" run the risk of being too heavy-handed and imposing a "story" rather than facilitating one to arise naturally.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11918333023702935482009-11-30T10:11:17.728-05:002009-11-30T10:11:17.728-05:00I agree with most of what James said. But is there...I agree with most of what James said. But is there a mad epidemic of pre-ordained stories among newer school gamers? In my experience, there isn't. For example, even the White Wolf groupies criticize many of the adventures for being too scripted. So is James arguing against a straw man?Akivahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17962605092009953080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33268007564821245042009-11-30T09:22:48.121-05:002009-11-30T09:22:48.121-05:00Story happens. It's not something (IMO) that ...Story happens. It's not something (IMO) that you can even create on purpose in an RPG (that's something else you've got hold of there, Mr. Conductor), but rather something that sneaks in from the back porch while you're not looking, and then hovers in the tenuous and ever-shifting mindspace created by player-GM interactions. If you try and manipulate it directly, it pops like a soap bubble and then you've ruint it. Just play the game, and it flourishes. Kinda Zen that way.<br /><br /> -DYADestroyYouAlothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11713840319693422886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89502333833346473122009-11-28T20:58:52.184-05:002009-11-28T20:58:52.184-05:00Classic sandbox play where the players embrace or ...Classic sandbox play where the players embrace or dump plots (but not consequences!) at will. Old school at it's finest!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03072822001932002924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49201369321745269482009-11-28T17:26:12.228-05:002009-11-28T17:26:12.228-05:00Very well-reasoned. Reading this, I can see my GMi...Very well-reasoned. Reading this, I can see my GMing style never was and likely never will be wholly "old school," but some sort of a "squishy centrist who leans old-school." I have too strong an urge to create a story to resist completely, so I constantly have to remind myself let the players tell 75% of the tale.<br /><br />When I do have a story in mind, what I do is make a timeline of how events will proceed <b>if the players do not intervene</b>, intentionally or unintentionally. If they do nothing that affects that timeline, then events proceed in the background while the players attend to whatever they're focused on. When they do interfere, then my knowledge of NPC motivations and goals, the randomness introduced by the dice, and the players' choices guide the future of the campaign. (If anyone remembers the old Islandia campaign products from The Companions, that's where I learned this style. They were some great adventures.)<br /><br />In short, I like a world that still moves when the players aren't looking. Call it a three-quarter sandbox, I guess. :)<br /><br />Security word: "flenees." Multiple victims of the dreaded Flen.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21343627414567655782009-11-28T17:05:36.075-05:002009-11-28T17:05:36.075-05:00I call them "triggerable events".I call them "triggerable events".Zak Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05443268280676127815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81656609485547846072009-11-28T14:40:27.773-05:002009-11-28T14:40:27.773-05:00James,
Thanks for writing these, it certainly answ...James,<br />Thanks for writing these, it certainly answers some questions I've had while reading your posts. My current group is just finishing up a Call of Cthulhu campaign refereed by myself, and we are going to try a little OD&D next year (mostly inspired by your blog). Right now I am still wrestling with how interesting to make the campaign world, but I will certainly be leaving the story up to my players, with a nudge in one direction or another if they need it. It's amazing how many resources there are online for recreating the Old School feel. Your contributions in this area are much appreciated.<br /><br />Inating - adding more entrances to the map of your megadungeon.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09008362389081964297noreply@blogger.com