tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post3323767188493921843..comments2024-03-28T15:30:09.903-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: The Articles of Dragon: "Realistic Vital Statistics"James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4828415097479336162012-03-02T12:24:07.857-05:002012-03-02T12:24:07.857-05:00"They are really stretching with this nonsens...<b><i>"They are really stretching with this nonsense. They probably should just admit that they don't really know how it works and leave it at that, instead of pretending they do by likening bees to helicopters."</i></b><br /><br />You're making the all too common mistake of assuming that, if you don't understand it, then it must not make sense.<br /><br />Did you even bother to read the other two paragraphs?https://www.blogger.com/profile/14398295844409607075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18240479270642816212012-03-02T09:42:56.633-05:002012-03-02T09:42:56.633-05:00That there is some grade A munchkinism.That there is some grade A munchkinism.Necropraxishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12716340801054739658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87158484587023754322012-03-02T06:56:00.868-05:002012-03-02T06:56:00.868-05:00From the linked article... "...that their fli...From the linked article... "...that their flight is explained by other mechanics, such as those used by helicopters."<br /><br />They are really stretching with this nonsense. They probably should just admit that they don't really know how it works and leave it at that, instead of pretending they do by likening bees to helicopters. But that's just my opinion ;-)Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9991579063266069982012-03-01T15:23:51.646-05:002012-03-01T15:23:51.646-05:00"...according to physics, bees are not suppos...<b><i>"...according to physics, bees are not supposed to be able to fly..."</i></b><br /><br />That's just a common misconception based on an old misapplication of fixed-wing aerodynamic theory. See here:<br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee#Flight" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bee#Flight</a>https://www.blogger.com/profile/14398295844409607075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-84816277616021703152012-03-01T11:34:24.563-05:002012-03-01T11:34:24.563-05:00An axe trap that flies out of the wall 5 feet from...An axe trap that flies out of the wall 5 feet from the ground dealing 2d6 damage to anyone that it hits.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-72537995838211943192012-03-01T11:32:38.729-05:002012-03-01T11:32:38.729-05:00Yeah but according to physics, bees are not suppos...Yeah but according to physics, bees are not supposed to be able to fly either, so take it all with a pinch of salt.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11345938599378621472012-03-01T04:59:22.854-05:002012-03-01T04:59:22.854-05:00At least in OAD&D "by the book," wei...At least in OAD&D "by the book," weight and height DO matter, since they can determine which weapons can and cannot be used (as defined in the PHB.)<br /><br />It's interesting to note that the Birthright campaign setting has dwarves which weigh almost twice the "standard" AD&D dwarves, and that's simply explained by the fact that their bodies have very high density (and this is reflected also in the fact that they take half damage from bludgeoning weapons.)<br /><br />I think verisimilitude is interesting to have in a game, but it need not coincide with realism.Antoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17258180992723371727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21772570800602226772012-02-29T14:41:12.910-05:002012-02-29T14:41:12.910-05:00Are we as adherents of the OSR supposed to handwav...Are we as adherents of the OSR supposed to handwave or even disregard everything save that which can be represented by "M-U1 S9 I14 W10 D12 C13 Ch9 hp 3?"<br /><br />Put another way, is knowing that the PC is or is not a dwarf really that important?<br /><br />My own 2 coppers of course.Doug Younghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08233615249302361280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10393832834033271912012-02-29T13:16:21.681-05:002012-02-29T13:16:21.681-05:00Weight mattered in a Dark Sun campaign I ran once ...Weight mattered in a Dark Sun campaign I ran once where my brother was a psionic thri-kreen (giant grasshopper type thing). He had a psionic ability that allowed him to change size as I recall. He asked me if this would change his weight too. Foolishly, thinking he was trying to increase the power of the ability, I replied in the negative. "Excellent" he replied, shrank himself to a tiny incredibly dense insect and went round jumping on peoples' chests as they slept...Tobzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09924994287077924911noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-86323643821127769122012-02-29T09:50:40.906-05:002012-02-29T09:50:40.906-05:00But dwarves are tougher, that could translate to h...But dwarves are tougher, that could translate to harder (and denser) bones and also a more sturdy flesh and completion.Mandramashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03456455146548941366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81210781102839663502012-02-29T09:48:05.860-05:002012-02-29T09:48:05.860-05:00It matters for spells like teleport that can allow...It matters for spells like teleport that can allow to teleport some amount of weight. also, ropes can resist only a specific weight before snap. <br />In fact, I can't imagine when you could use height at all.Mandramashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03456455146548941366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37309631008451844892012-02-29T08:38:35.613-05:002012-02-29T08:38:35.613-05:00"Although my real issue isn't with weight...<i>"Although my real issue isn't with weight as such, it's with having an exact number, as if 175 pounds has to be distinguished from 180."</i><br /><br />It's almost like there should be more convenient units, like "stone", in which to measure body weight or something. :-)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85891897924542636502012-02-29T08:35:56.429-05:002012-02-29T08:35:56.429-05:00I can also agree with that.I can also agree with that.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16570186614144136192012-02-29T03:18:54.679-05:002012-02-29T03:18:54.679-05:00I am in agreement with what w2 has said. It is fu...I am in agreement with what w2 has said. It is fun to think about how something works. Take for instance the question, "<a href="http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2011/04/physics-question.html" rel="nofollow">How could dragons fly?</a>"Random Wizardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16200875405900408519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12665158817601427522012-02-29T01:00:26.637-05:002012-02-29T01:00:26.637-05:00How did no one bring up the Lord of the Rings film...How did no one bring up the Lord of the Rings films? Of course weight would be a factor in tossing a dwarf!<br /><br />I'll go ahead a apologize now.Marty Runyonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08456700794989273981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32339223065876650292012-02-28T23:10:22.484-05:002012-02-28T23:10:22.484-05:00@w2 I second everything you said.<b>@w2</b> I second everything you said.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14398295844409607075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12193832894783984242012-02-28T21:41:49.236-05:002012-02-28T21:41:49.236-05:00There are cases where an attempt to inject "r...There are cases where an attempt to inject "realism", via a new subsystem that is unwieldy or intractable (e.g., DMG initiative or unarmed combat, or Greyhawk boxed-set weather) has been a great tragedy. <br /><br />There are other cases where a certain replacement would make some people happier, the system being of no change in complexity (like here, or with coins), and those who truly don't care wouldn't notice the difference. <br /><br />As far as I can tell. Personally, I wouldn't even mind if such things were put up to a vote so we can be sure.Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28885678434231340972012-02-28T19:40:31.287-05:002012-02-28T19:40:31.287-05:00Looking back, I appreciate the emphasis on realism...Looking back, I appreciate the emphasis on realism in D&D and other role-playing games. My pursuit of a more realistic D&D world led me to a lot of places that taught me a lot about real world history, physics, etc., in much the same way that reading all that Gygaxian prose expanded my vocabulary. Almost none of it ever proved useful in actual play, but that game was a major catalyst in my education.<br /><br />Additionally, I do appreciate realism in a game. Granted, many of the realism-oriented articles that appeared in sources like Dragon were questionably researched and would have been clumsy to put into actual play, but that doesn't undermine the value of what the authors were trying to do. You can make a fun game that is completely made up without any attempt to reflect the way physics, biology, economics and so forth work in real life; but I think the very best fantasy is the stuff that is meticulously researched and is faithful to reality except for where the creator has made a deliberate decision to inject fantastical elements.w2https://www.blogger.com/profile/14740129415409195581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51605486372290351712012-02-28T18:11:26.038-05:002012-02-28T18:11:26.038-05:00To me, knowing whether a dwarf has brown hair or r...To me, knowing whether a dwarf has brown hair or red is <i>more</i> 'useful'.<br /><br />Firstly, answering the question doesn't make the game collapse.<br /><br />Secondly, it gives you a clear idea of the character's appearance in a way that weight doesn't.<br /><br />Although my real issue isn't with weight as such, it's with having an exact number, as if 175 pounds has to be distinguished from 180. If character's weight/build was expressed as 'thin', 'average', 'muscular' or 'fat' then (to me) that would be fine.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51680211919132565902012-02-28T18:06:00.167-05:002012-02-28T18:06:00.167-05:00In Tunnels & Trolls fairies are apparently den...In Tunnels & Trolls fairies are apparently denser than titanium.<br /><br />On the other hand fairies are obviously magic in a way that dwarves aren't.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2464065663710334882012-02-28T16:12:16.239-05:002012-02-28T16:12:16.239-05:00Just in case people wonder why I said the maths wa...Just in case people wonder why I said the maths was wrong...<br /><br />Dwarves are commonly portrayed as being as broad as a human, thus their cross sectional area would be the same, so a 4' Dwarf would be 2/3 the weight of a 6' Human.<br /><br />Humans get less broad as they get smaller, and BMI reckons this as being proportional to the square of their height. So if a 4' Dwarf weighed the same as a 4' human you'd expect it to be 4/9 of the weight of a 6' human.<br /><br />Thus if a 6' human weighed 180lbs, these two estimates would give a Dwarf weight of 120lbs or 80lbs respectively. Split the difference and call it 100 ;-)Joe Nuttallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395295081337987607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28619864512160670972012-02-28T15:56:50.409-05:002012-02-28T15:56:50.409-05:00Brand me a heretic to the OSR, but I do like some ...Brand me a heretic to the OSR, but I do like some of the "realist" articles that appeared in Dragon over the late 70s and into the 80s; I like a bit of crunch in my games, and many added a nice "texture," for lack of a better word. Still, I recall reading this article at the time and wondering why the author bothered, and why the editor accepted it.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78269141329382450642012-02-28T15:42:58.842-05:002012-02-28T15:42:58.842-05:00The question of the relative density of dwarves an...The question of the relative density of dwarves and humans reminds me of the joke from Joel Rosenberg's books: "How do you make a dwarf float?" "One dwarf, two scoops of ice cream, and a gallon of root beer." (This is right after a dwarf's inability to float is of direct relevance to the plot, of course.)Matthew Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905727799828366356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31183046525761343782012-02-28T14:29:12.137-05:002012-02-28T14:29:12.137-05:00Dwarf weight is important when you're trying t...Dwarf weight is important when you're trying to haul your dead/dying buddy out the dungeon!<br /><br />I tend to keep the demihuman weights and increase their heights, which IMO don't fit how the races are actually portrayed so - IMCs halflings ca 3'10"-4', dwarves ca 4'6"-4'8". A 6' dwarf would indeed be 400-500 lbs though!Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73300353487072323592012-02-28T14:15:07.635-05:002012-02-28T14:15:07.635-05:00Knowing the correct weight of the dwarf is, of cou...Knowing the correct weight of the dwarf is, of course, not really that useful. But, having decided to write on this pointless subject, the author has completely bogus calculations, thus making it a useless article on a pointless subject :-)<br /><br />The desire for "realism" often leads to long debates, complicated rules, and no extra level of realism - slowing the game down and gives you no benefit in return.<br /><br />This didn't start in the Silver Age however. Read again the spell "Enlarge" in the PHB. I think that nicely explains how the spells section alone is roughly 60 pages. At approx 3 times as many words per page as the OD&D books, so that's nearly as long as OD&D + Greyhawk + Blackmoor! (less the Temple)...Joe Nuttallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02395295081337987607noreply@blogger.com