tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post3355676618348695424..comments2024-03-29T07:58:31.156-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: GangbustersJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49487977961276392942010-05-24T13:19:38.656-04:002010-05-24T13:19:38.656-04:00Rick,
This crotchety old man-in-training is glad ...Rick,<br /><br />This crotchety old man-in-training is glad to have made your day. Thanks for <i>Gangbusters</i>. I loved it as a younger man and I hope to have the chance to play it again as an older one.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10765885240648368132010-05-21T13:22:15.138-04:002010-05-21T13:22:15.138-04:00I thought it was cool/funny that Lakefront was Chi...I thought it was cool/funny that Lakefront was Chicago in all but name. The Wards map in the box set was Chicago, and game places like the 4 Dueces and the Lexington Hotel, as well as Mayor "Big Bill" Thompson, are right out of Capone's biography (which I'm reading right now). And I'm guessing "Al Tolino" was a sort of Al Capone/Johnny Torrio (Capone's first boss) combo.BriCalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04862163586864822798noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61464166993340456882010-05-21T03:31:58.281-04:002010-05-21T03:31:58.281-04:00On the subject of justice: Trials are settled by a...On the subject of justice: Trials are settled by a roll of the % dice, beginning at straight 50/50 odds (IIRC) but with a lengthy list of modifiers affecting the roll. I always found it immensely amusing that nowhere in the entire list was any consideration for the defendant's guilt or innocence.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26005626402755921002010-05-20T20:40:44.362-04:002010-05-20T20:40:44.362-04:00You could always tell your players that it's a...You could always tell your players that it's a historical fiction background. Like if you wrote a book about your city's gangster history, and then Hollywood made a movie of it.<br /><br />You could also give players a chance to win some sort of NoPrize points by writing down what their historical issue is, but not talking about it to the other players. You could let them cash in their points for extra rolls or something; and this would probably encourage your players to read up on the subject. :)<br /><br />If you were really mean, or if your players were overly picky, you could fine them extra rolls for writing down history nitpicks that turned out to be wrong. <br /><br />You could also retcon some historical issues. Like, if you had an error in court procedure, you could remember it and let somebody file an appeal, if you wanted to use that. If you didn't, you'd just continue to ignore it.<br />All errors you didn't want to retcon would be blamed on Hollywood.Bansheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12594214770417497135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-13822902473437009402010-05-20T12:58:50.220-04:002010-05-20T12:58:50.220-04:00The choice of Lakefront City over Chicago, New Yor...The choice of Lakefront City over Chicago, New York, Los Angeles, Detroit, or any other city with a major mob presence had nothing to do with marketing conservatism or fear of backlash from offended dockworkers. It goes hand-in-hand with Raymond Chandler setting his stories in fictional Bay City and Gray Lake instead of Santa Monica and Silver Lake. A fictional setting lets you put in whatever you want and combine elements from many real places in a single locale, thus avoiding some of the historical RPG pitfalls mentioned above.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87018860561474284572010-05-20T10:29:04.586-04:002010-05-20T10:29:04.586-04:00I picked this one up at my local Half-Price Books ...I picked this one up at my local Half-Price Books after hearing good things (a Godsend to anyone looking for old-scool gaming materials). I really liked the lean design of it and it was fascinating to see some of the first steps out of the dungeon. I'm planning on running my group through the "Cody Jarret Bank Heist" scenario on our next Throwback gaming night.<br /><br />As for historical gaming, it's a catch-22. If you set a game in a historical setting, people get irritated if the details are wrong. If you set a game in a pseudo-historical setting, people get irritated over the changes you make to the setting (see also l5r/7th Sea) Honestly, I prefer pseudo-historical gaming, because it lets me have greater freedom while still drawing on historical details.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12098545506479026723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59596221212556179882010-05-20T08:52:55.848-04:002010-05-20T08:52:55.848-04:00I think that the problems with historical RPGs is ...I think that the problems with historical RPGs is the problem of reality, accuracy and simulation. When dealing with a fantasy/science fiction setting you need only create a world with (more or less) internal consistency. The legal system of Dragonport, or wherever, need only 'make sense'. It can draw on historical examples, but it doesn't need to be faithful, just fun. Efforts to achieve accuracy in a historical RPG setting threatens to be a 'fun drain', and these efforts can be the result of a GM with a perfectionist streak, or worse, driven by players who know 'too much' - 'no, no, no, the US legal system didn't work that way in the 1920s', 'no, that wasn't how a newspaper printing press would be organised back then', etc. <br /><br />This isn't so much a problem in historical wargames, which create a tightly bounded scenario, but it is in an RPG in which the players are offered substantial freedom of action.AndyBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04750253755036359481noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36901917810474654102010-05-20T00:45:56.331-04:002010-05-20T00:45:56.331-04:00Great, incredible game faithful to...and ahead of ...Great, incredible game faithful to...and ahead of its time. My Gangbusters story:<br /><br />I GM'ed my brother, who played a gumshoe private-eye. We played some mystery module involving a murder at a high-class party, a roomful of suspects, and a key to a locker hidden under a train station sink. His answer, blissfully miss all the clues, bust into the local speakeasy, and beat up the local mob boss for answers. <br /><br />What could only be explained as an action movie of revenge plots followed, with shootouts in newspaper offices, gunfight car chases through streets, ending in a final mob war versus the gumshoe in the train station for the contents of the locker.<br /><br />Best mystery game I ever ran.Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08597777050200216937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61408022810985575822010-05-20T00:29:27.530-04:002010-05-20T00:29:27.530-04:00For myself, it was somewhat difficult to meanfully...For myself, it was somewhat difficult to meanfully portray either faction in this tableau. It could be said to be difficult to support any constitutional amendment based on moralistic imperative which would seem to limit the choices of consenting adults.<br /><br />On the other hand, if one is to believe historical accounts, the violent nature of those who opposed the amendment is something most might find hard to convincingly role play. While it is not out of bounds to think some of the villainization of the so called mobsters was a consequence of the non-diverse dominant Anglo-Saxon culture fearing immigration by southern Europeans, it would be hard to state that the historial record is entirely inspired by such concepts.<br /><br />Given that difficulty, one seems propelled to the side of the 'G-Men' but with the backdrop of their exploits being that of enforcing of what some may call moralisticly inspired law, I found myself hard pressed to passionately play or game master either perspective. My efforts to play a journalist of mixed WASP/Italian heritage, seeking to bring to light the issues discussed above met with limited dynamic success.Dick Jauronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277594110550051441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83416821730232497002010-05-19T22:53:24.464-04:002010-05-19T22:53:24.464-04:00oh brother...oh brother...crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-44998679586502431232010-05-19T22:52:34.567-04:002010-05-19T22:52:34.567-04:00Dam you Bogger for not letting me edit my typos!Dam you Bogger for not letting me edit my typos!crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45834064247271109222010-05-19T22:50:34.733-04:002010-05-19T22:50:34.733-04:00I always seemed Gangbusters was more fitting as a ...I always seemed Gangbusters was more fitting as a game to come out of Chaosium then TSR. But yeah, I can't imagine why your GM didn't seize the moment as it would of been a more fitting demise ito allow your PC to drop of the of the film and THEN have an assassination attempt on your PC when he got back home. That's how Raymond Chandler or Ben Hecht would of done it. BTW, was there an Appendix N in GB'?crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83661120685749077672010-05-19T22:47:34.612-04:002010-05-19T22:47:34.612-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.crowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54358686418354006582010-05-19T22:06:33.123-04:002010-05-19T22:06:33.123-04:00We were in high school when we played Gangbusters....We were in high school when we played Gangbusters. We settled the possibility of everyone being on different sides by.. simply being on different sides. <br /><br />We had more patience for waiting for our turn, and we had time to blow on games.<br /><br />But I was kinda bummed when the game master wouldn't let my reporter turn in my film to the newspaper at midnight. While in retrospect I should have simply said "ok, I'll wait" I instead went home where the criminal characters assassinated me.<br /><br />Ah, well. We played Paranoia as well.redbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04600098550347299095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56921260853106098402010-05-19T19:40:06.585-04:002010-05-19T19:40:06.585-04:00One of the interesting things (to me, at least) ab...One of the interesting things (to me, at least) about Gangbusters was that it strongly encouraged PC's (especially criminals) to drive their own storylines. This was years before such a notion gained a foothold with the Indie gaming crowd.Knightskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397391662639446678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29154926842635041582010-05-19T17:59:50.935-04:002010-05-19T17:59:50.935-04:00John's post reminds me that the reason we star...John's post reminds me that the reason we started playing Gangbusters was that the father of one of our players (a preacher) got worried about D&D and wouldn't let him play anymore. I brought in the Gangbusters rule booklet so he could show his dad and see if it passed muster, and it did--I think that introduction from Elliot Ness's son (if I remember right) helped a lot! We ended up having more fun with Gangbusters than we ever did with D&D, and that's saying a lot.<br /><br />I wonder how many other kids were saved from a roleplaying ban by Gangbusters? Not just a great game, a public service.motortreehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00231385275327332486noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38010121015174055032010-05-19T17:49:51.758-04:002010-05-19T17:49:51.758-04:00At GenCon (I think it must have been either '8...At GenCon (I think it must have been either '81 or '82) I got to play in a session of Gangbusters run by Mr. Acres and I agree with Steven above, Mark ran a Thompson gunning, dynamite chucking good time! Thank you Mr. Krebs, Mr. Acres, and Mr. Moldvay.Brewmiesterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05326434449476576356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77900685304953677462010-05-19T17:42:09.649-04:002010-05-19T17:42:09.649-04:00Rick Krebs:
Thanks very much for your insight! Mu...Rick Krebs:<br /><br />Thanks very much for your insight! Much appreciated.<br /><br />MichaelMichael (in NYC)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07812962280866467016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43448695676918117722010-05-19T17:27:29.240-04:002010-05-19T17:27:29.240-04:00Wow, the man himself.
I think Rick's comment ...Wow, the man himself.<br /><br />I think Rick's comment confirms what I had suspected on first reading James' post: that the "fictional Chicago" approach was a symptom of TSR's legal/marketing conservatism. After all, it's a lot harder to offend when you use fictional cities, fictional criminals, fictional ethnicities, etc than if you were to make a game about, say, WASP FBI agents tracking down Italian and Jewish mobsters in real-life 1930s Chicago and Los Angeles.<br /><br />This is, of course, one of the real dangers of "historical" RPGs: sometimes an RPG needs Evil Doodz as guilt-free cannon fodder, and it's tough to provide a steady stream of those outside of a fantasy/sci-fi setting.Picadorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01244353406711565712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41932190846828296222010-05-19T17:14:10.943-04:002010-05-19T17:14:10.943-04:00Mark's GB-playtest campaign was the best RPG c...Mark's GB-playtest campaign was the best RPG campaign I ever played, bar none. Some GMs have it and some don't -- Mark absolutely had it, and he was steeped in everything GangBusters. We'd have sessions with a dozen or more players, all in different careers on both sides of the law, and no one was ever bored. It was amazing to play. --SteveStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11677895164302972957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8075244293920556932010-05-19T15:08:32.943-04:002010-05-19T15:08:32.943-04:00Gangbusters, Gangster!, Crimefighters (from Dragon...Gangbusters, Gangster!, Crimefighters (from Dragon Magazine), Flashing Blades, Boot Hill, En Garde...<br /><br />I have a great fondness for historic and pulp rpgs. I wonder if anyone tried a Napoleonic era RPG. <br /><br />I am a fan of Marc Acres work. While I don't think his game systems are as elegant as those of Greg Gorden, he has some wonderfully inspirational material. Chill, TimeMaster, Star Ace, and Sandman are great additions to the rpg field.Christian Lindkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12381310217234123318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51054729925760636922010-05-19T13:26:44.939-04:002010-05-19T13:26:44.939-04:00Thanks James for your kind words and your criticis...Thanks James for your kind words and your criticism is fair. With eGG and BB eager to have a background in their childhood city (if you thought Gary's detail on ancient weapons was exacting, so was his interest in unions and the Chicago ward system), TSR's marketing research leaned toward the original fictional approach. My hope was your experience. That players would adopt their local home town as the setting and then draw on their local city history or current events to provide the plot for the game.<br /><br />AlinCT your Great Aunt story has made my year.<br /><br />The story of the publishing of Gangbusters is a foreshadowing of the attitudes and events that led to the end of TSR. Gangbusters deserved better and I wish I had had a chance to meet Tom Moldvay.<br /><br />James, your evaluation and comments mean a lot to this crotchety old man. Now you kids get off my lawn 8-)Rick Krebshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02455824039524230156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11297728652613168762010-05-19T13:06:46.204-04:002010-05-19T13:06:46.204-04:00I rember seeing both of the softcover eddtions of ...I rember seeing both of the softcover eddtions of Gangbusters and Boothillin the 90's and wishing I had the money to buy them, but didn't.sevenbastardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11961009160456478009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38221409893235804432010-05-19T12:48:34.965-04:002010-05-19T12:48:34.965-04:00Great post!
Along with Boot Hill, Gangbusters was...Great post!<br /><br />Along with Boot Hill, Gangbusters was (and still is) my favorite of TSR games. Both of them provided hours upon hours of entertainment - plus some wonderful gaming memories that have stuck around for close to thirty years now.<br /><br />Even though I grok the follow the leader mentality, I never understood why TSR neglected those two games to the extent they did. Yeah, yeah... 'All Hail The Cash Cow', and all that. Still, if you do not promote the lesser known products in your line, how the heck am I to know they even exist? <br /><br />Did you know that both Boot Hill and Gangbusters were updated in 1990? Because I sure didn't.The Mayflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04291942599248504928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48224741629660567062010-05-19T11:53:36.313-04:002010-05-19T11:53:36.313-04:00It's funny how a) almost all the TSR games but...It's funny how a) almost all the TSR games but D&D had skill systems, usually percentile and b) how they almost all also had (basically irrelevant) levels. I wonder if including levels somewhere in your game design was some sort of corporate requirement.Matthew Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04905727799828366356noreply@blogger.com