tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post3361298235558338220..comments2024-03-28T09:41:39.187-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: GROGNARD's GRIMOIRE: The Price of MagicJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51005210823971311662008-08-13T16:29:00.000-04:002008-08-13T16:29:00.000-04:00Your wizard's blight here suggests that the univer...<I>Your wizard's blight here suggests that the universe contains a strong ethical code, which wizards violate.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure it's an ethical code per se, so much as another example of the notions that a) there are some things man was not meant to know and b) the ends never justify the means. The concept of "black magic" is of comparatively recent vintage; for most of its history, the West has seen all magic as inherently disordered -- whether in its ends, its means, or both. Pulp fantasy is heir to that older tradition and I would argue that, once magic makes the transition into being viewed simply as another "technology," neither good nor evil in itself, you can see a dividing line between older and newer fantasy.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12259309863484630732008-08-13T16:21:00.000-04:002008-08-13T16:21:00.000-04:00I have zero interest in deconstructing or critiqui...<I>I have zero interest in deconstructing or critiquing pulp fantasy's approach</I><BR/>That's fair enough - especially since I suspect that if you try to deconstruct pulp fantasy you end up destroying it. The question I was fumbling towards is whether there's any point really fleshing out "other" religions or races in such a setting, and whether it's appropriate to try to spice the gameworld's cultures up with an understanding of real world religions. Doing so suggests taking on a bit of a disinterested scholar's attitude about religions, which may be simply inappropriate in idiom. Your wizard's blight here suggests that the universe contains a strong ethical code, which wizards violate. Should that extend to religions, with one or more "approved" gods on one (the players') side and unspeakable demons and rituals for the bad guys? In that case, I guess familiar (1930s) cultural tropes are in and research can only get in the way. Which is a perfectly valid approach, albeit one that would make me very conscious of occupying a genre if I were playing.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30928171536172867602008-08-13T16:00:00.000-04:002008-08-13T16:00:00.000-04:00is the point of a pulp fantasy to recreate pulp fa...<I>is the point of a pulp fantasy to recreate pulp fantasy tropes? If the treatment of religion is not subtle in the sources, do you run with that?</I><BR/><BR/>Well, yes. I have zero interest in deconstructing or critiquing pulp fantasy's approach to such things. I'll occasionally tone down certain things if I'm personally uncomfortable with them (which is rare), but the goal here is to go for a full bore pulp fantasy version of <I>D&D</I>.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45925771249461189562008-08-13T15:58:00.000-04:002008-08-13T15:58:00.000-04:00never been terribly comfortable with Clerics-as-me...<I>never been terribly comfortable with Clerics-as-medieval-Hospitallers.</I><BR/><BR/>My beef with them is that they're mostly redundant if you also have paladins, which I plan to.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45523419924168436492008-08-13T15:57:00.000-04:002008-08-13T15:57:00.000-04:00Can't wait to see what you do to the "priest".I'll...<I>Can't wait to see what you do to the "priest".</I><BR/><BR/>I'll be talking about the Cleric in my second Grognard's Grimore tomorrow (August 14).James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58763885174745371022008-08-13T10:07:00.000-04:002008-08-13T10:07:00.000-04:00Now you set me thinking about a philosophical issu...Now you set me thinking about a philosophical issue: is the point of a pulp fantasy to recreate pulp fantasy tropes? If the treatment of religion is not subtle in the sources, do you run with that? <BR/>Maybe my previous comment is irrelevant, and the point is to enjoy some good clean colonialist stereotyping, while poking fun, with Conan, at heroic conventions.richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-70223582525537170242008-08-13T08:44:00.000-04:002008-08-13T08:44:00.000-04:00Another name for the priests:"hierophant" (from an...Another name for the priests:"hierophant" (from ancient Greece and the Tarot deck).<BR/><BR/>I've never seen a good toolbox supplement for handling religion in games: if the category is left unmarked it always ends up being Christianity* with the serial numbers filed off, or Hollywood Aztec sacrifice for the bad guys. This is too bad, since the whole discipline of Anthropology pre 1950 or so was focused on the very different practices of other peoples - there's no shortage of material, from spirit possession to zen koans. <BR/><BR/>* this is especially clear when you start looking for job descriptions: the differences between priest, pastor, monk and bishop are all loud and clear, but where's the khodja, the dervish, the lama or the bissu?richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-80128503024899054892008-08-13T08:08:00.000-04:002008-08-13T08:08:00.000-04:00I may be starting a project to eliminate the Cleri...I may be starting a project to eliminate the Cleric class from my OD&D campaign, moving some of the Cleric spells to the Magic-User list. Spell-casting Priests would be Magic-Users with individualized cult spell lists, and militant types would be Fighting Men, Paladins, or Berserkers.<BR/><BR/>Like you, I very much like the idea of Magic-Users and Priests being somewhat creepy, and have never been terribly comfortable with Clerics-as-medieval-Hospitallers.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10856299661187809371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47862343412620637912008-08-12T19:19:00.000-04:002008-08-12T19:19:00.000-04:00Wow very nice. Love it. Can't wait to see what you...Wow very nice. Love it. Can't wait to see what you do to the "priest".Mike D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13199531732115178349noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47974731830751310012008-08-12T17:50:00.000-04:002008-08-12T17:50:00.000-04:00I love it!And if I may be so bold as to make a sug...I love it!<BR/><BR/>And if I may be so bold as to make a suggestion...<BR/><BR/>I have been recently introduced to (and become enthralled with) the writings of Jack Vance - partly motivated by your blog -, and since then I've grown to appreciate D&D's traditional magic system on a whole new level.<BR/><BR/>While some people seem intent on tearing down "Vancian" magic - I say we need MORE Vance, not less!<BR/><BR/>So I suggest:<BR/><BR/>* More extravagant names! Who needs "magic missile" when you can have "The Unerring Gilded Projectile"? Or "sleep" in lieu of "Zagyg's Expeditious Somnifacient"?<BR/><BR/>* A spell failure mechanic. Even Vance's dependable sorcery is a fickle force, with spells going awry in the most bizarre manners. <BR/><BR/>This would also tie in nicely with other pulp fantasy influences, e.g. Howard's crazed sorcerers struggling to control over summoned entities.Iglesiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08416128782481346800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43819712255299062272008-08-12T17:25:00.000-04:002008-08-12T17:25:00.000-04:00I like it...I also like verhaden's addition to it....I like it...I also like verhaden's addition to it.<BR/><BR/>It helps get the "this isn't Gandalf or Harry Potter" across in an fairly easy way.Pulp Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486803457210325703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33981470309921458222008-08-12T16:42:00.000-04:002008-08-12T16:42:00.000-04:00Going along with possible afflictions, how about s...Going along with possible afflictions, how about something along the lines of Philotomy's "Spell Special Effects"? A wizard who uses "Fireball" too often might start to permanently smell like sulfur. The "Strength" spell could manifest itself at inopportune times, or maybe "Detect Evil" casts itself without the caster's consent and gives false positives?<BR/><BR/>Of course, DM's discretion is highly advised if this route is taken as to not completely debilitate wizards and the like.nothinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07988753905326172273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20459708977933807572008-08-12T16:41:00.000-04:002008-08-12T16:41:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.nothinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07988753905326172273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-44883708382098719382008-08-12T15:13:00.000-04:002008-08-12T15:13:00.000-04:00I like it. As I've understood it, magic in pulp fa...I like it. As I've understood it, magic in pulp fantasy is very dark and sinister, but powerful for those ambitious or crazy enough to use it. It looks very good for laying out the tone of the game to players right away.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13973301663176412762noreply@blogger.com