tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post4043613959234128415..comments2024-03-29T07:58:31.156-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Go FigureJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27562104389937248222012-05-08T12:59:35.521-04:002012-05-08T12:59:35.521-04:00The constant tinkering with D&D is evidence of...The constant tinkering with D&D is evidence of constant corporate meddling.<br /><br />4e was not a bad idea at all*, the problem is that it deviates from what most fans saw as core D&D mechanics; had it been marketed as a wholly new system/setting (just using the generic setting of the rulebook), it probably would have had a little less success, but created far less PR problems for WotC. Allowing the exodus to Pathfinder was a huge mistake on a corporate level.<br /><br />I realize that here I'm going to get a lot of disagreement with my statement that 4e was not a bad idea. I think the powers system, in particular, was a really good idea. It gave weapon–using classes immediate flavor they otherwise would have lacked; I don't know how many players have quit D&D shortly after starting because they were handed a fighter as a new character and they were bored to death just swinging a weapon. I also liked the system's near–complete excising of gish–y builds; they always struck me more as gaming the system rather than actually creating a coherent character in your setting.<br /><br />A lot of the rejection comes from people who <i>never actually attempted</i> a 4e campaign. I was in one—a rather large one, at that—with a number of players who had never role–played at all (and, of the three of them, only one had played WoW, before anyone throws that one in) and they all <i>loved it</i> in a way I've rarely seen from new role–players.Aristonhttp://anthropismos.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35676255415873474332012-05-01T08:12:41.536-04:002012-05-01T08:12:41.536-04:00 Since so many other companies made variations of ... Since so many other companies made variations of their rules, why not the other way around?doreshnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82841156897001042702012-04-30T18:43:16.622-04:002012-04-30T18:43:16.622-04:00RE: C&C I assure you it doesn't take muc...RE: C&C I assure you it doesn't take much to use a 1E module with C&C. There are basic conversions online that are all of 1 page long. It's easy and you as a GM can do it on the fly, without needing much prep.R.J. Thompsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49974318766470984302012-04-30T18:33:25.515-04:002012-04-30T18:33:25.515-04:00Again it exists, in a way, as Castles & Crusad...Again it exists, in a way, as Castles & Crusades. In fact, what I am seeing on the WOTC boards about how D&D Next is supposed to play looks an awful lot to me like their own variation of C&C.R.J. Thompsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25221743974106869862012-04-30T18:30:16.317-04:002012-04-30T18:30:16.317-04:00The Modular D&D game essentially exists, but i...The Modular D&D game essentially exists, but is published by Troll Lord Games and called "Castles & Crusades." Check into it. The only edition that does not seem to convert well to it is 4E.R.J. Thompsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25104746184802640722012-04-30T11:44:47.019-04:002012-04-30T11:44:47.019-04:00"-The next generation of DM's are writing..."-The next generation of DM's are writing code not on graph paper" Rubbish, people thought that ten years ago too, games like Baldurs Gate sold like crazy. These are not either/or propositions, all of these lines run complimentary. People who play World of Warcraft also DM D&D and also play Warhammer (as an example).The Recursion Kingnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-70514114229506799572012-04-28T10:41:52.147-04:002012-04-28T10:41:52.147-04:00I agree with much, but not all, of what has alread...I agree with much, but not all, of what has already been said below. <br /><br /><br />My perception (from waaay outside) is that WotC is producing 5e in an attempt to retake "market leader' position from Pathfinder. Why is that important given the financial triviality of the tabletop RPG market to a multinational company like Hasbro? Because a significant part of the equity in the "Dungeons & Dragons" brand name is the perception that it is the '10,000 lb gorilla' of the hobby. <br /><br />If it is no longer so for any extended period of time, I suspect the value of the "D&D" brand will be diminished greatly. And THAT is important to Hasbro for two reasons. For one, they probably hope to leverage the "D&D" brand beyond pen-and-paper RPGs (where probably the vast majority of the value of the brand lies today). And secondly, Hasbro's accountants have probably attributed a multi-million dollar value to the "D&D" brand on their balance sheet, and I suspect the company is loathe to write that down materially.Dan2448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32555334892657214252012-04-28T07:38:38.596-04:002012-04-28T07:38:38.596-04:00James, Wizards might agree with you if the current...James, Wizards might agree with you if the current series of D&D board games is any indication.James Hutchingsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-53344511958406765152012-04-28T07:37:03.594-04:002012-04-28T07:37:03.594-04:00Is there a current series of D&D novels? I kno...Is there a current series of D&D novels? I know there are Pathfinder ones, or there were relatively recently.James Hutchingsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90013052877359919682012-04-28T07:35:03.491-04:002012-04-28T07:35:03.491-04:00One of the groups at my local cards and games shop...One of the groups at my local cards and games shop plays 4th edition with My Little Pony figures for the player characters.James Hutchingsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78613434185234046392012-04-27T23:35:07.432-04:002012-04-27T23:35:07.432-04:00Those titles are evidence against a placeholder ho...Those titles are evidence against a placeholder how? The whole point of using a <i>placeholder</i> for the inventory system is so that the actual product won't be prematurely revealed by accident. If it's a placeholder, the titles are going to be false.<br /><br />Second, your "etc." is misleading. The third wasn't, as that would imply, "D&D 3.5 MM - with errata". The third title was "Provalone". Which is a blatantly obvious placeholder.<br /><br />Third, there is absolutely no business reason to keep a 3.5 reprint under wraps, because announcing a 3.5 re-release wouldn't hurt any of WotC's current products. Such an announcement could only hurt sales of Pathfinder by encouraging remaining 3.5 players not to switch.<br /><br />On the other hand, announcing that 4e core with errata is coming would depress sales of 4e core, while announcing Next is coming in September would both hurt 4e sales and suck enthusiasm out of the "playtest". Keeping one of those under wraps actually makes sense.seethelunaticnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58459268835461795432012-04-27T22:43:35.727-04:002012-04-27T22:43:35.727-04:00We are seeing the end of the "Dungeons & ...We are seeing the end of the "Dungeons & Dragons" tabletop game. The brand will live on with other product but the game will end now. 5E is the last gasp and I think it is pretty apparent that it will fail. There is just no one to sell it to. The old school doesn't want it, the 3.xers don't want it, and the 4Ers are just baffled about why it exists at all. The wholesale abandonment of 3E and the OGL was a horrendous business decision. In hindsight, for the company, so was making 3E OGL in the first place. Paizos massive (OGL inspired) success sent the D&D bean counters into a tailspin and will ultimately end the D&D game itself. <br /><br />The reprints are a symptom of the end, not a new beginning. Everyone always knew reprints of the old stuff was always a last ditch alternative to grind a few more dollars out of the game before its demise. We are seeing it now. The last chapter in this story could involve some type of legal action against its competitors (namely Paizo but maybe OSR games as well). This effort is, of course, doomed to fail but they have to try something. <br /><br />Cook saw the writing on the wall and moved on while his reputation was still intact. He now gets designer credit on the final version of D&D but won't be around to see it fail as a product. He gets the last laugh on WoTC on behalf of not only himself but all the other friends of his they treated so poorly in their Christmas season blood baths. He's leaving at exactly the worst time for Hasbro but the best time for him. Smart. Diabolical even.TheEndnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61681589768915967102012-04-27T15:30:56.869-04:002012-04-27T15:30:56.869-04:00I'm pretty sure that Hasbro has their own tele...I'm pretty sure that Hasbro has their own television channel. They should really be making a new, non-terrible D&D cartoon series. Get John Rogers to write it. Have a My Little Pony crossover. That'll sell some books.<br /><br />The above is semi-serious, but no more than semi.Nathan Eastonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49964944219273964312012-04-27T14:44:14.933-04:002012-04-27T14:44:14.933-04:00If face to face was a barrier to social activity, ...If face to face was a barrier to social activity, Mark Zuckerberg would be poor, there is no barrier to creating content in computer games, people are building castles, making new spells and adventures, forging new magic items in games like skyrim, just as pen and paper guys did in 1975. Guys writing new content for skyrim have more in common with gygax and arneson than computer illiterates give them credit for. There is also a to of money to be made with a d&d/skyrim like game. Reprinting old books is a marketing effort, 5e is just marketing fluff for a crpg to be announced in 2013.UWS guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01277557128674527225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1118500813049752682012-04-27T13:57:59.927-04:002012-04-27T13:57:59.927-04:00 Great comment, thanks for that. Great comment, thanks for that.deltanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-84262058508765017402012-04-27T11:47:24.271-04:002012-04-27T11:47:24.271-04:00This is very close to the position I've come t...This is very close to the position I've come to as well.James Maliszewskihttp://grognardia.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49014531663033812312012-04-27T11:39:55.076-04:002012-04-27T11:39:55.076-04:00I suspect that WOTC management is really living in...I suspect that WOTC management is really living in fairy-tale land with the hopes that they are appending to the entire project, and that this was probably a source of the friction with Mr Cook. Then again they have to be enthusiastic in this regard, because it's their careers at stake and to paraphrase a certain set of books (and TV shows) Christmas is coming.<br /><br />Personally I think they are approaching the wrong crowd in their redesign - essentially preaching to the converted. The hope that they can win back both halves of the Empire is a forlorn one. Instead the D&D brand (which is exceedingly strong outside the hobby), should be focused on bringing the new blood in rather than appealing to the old blood (who will no doubt buy the product any way). And their marketing strategy sucks - modularising the game is simply expanding the ability to market canonical rule-books (the only essential part of the game, which has always been the problem with the industry).<br /><br />Instead I think they should have shifted focus onto the D&D boardgames and used the Hasbro connection to not just push these into the dedicated game stores but also into the chain stores. Use these as the entry point into the D&D game for newcomers, and then introduce expansions that guide people into creating their own content for the game (as well as producing supplements that will continue to satisfy people that just want the boardgames). People will naturally role-play their characters in this sort of situation; take a look at kids playing with the Lego dungeons. You don't need rules to do that. And this reduces the entry barrier into the hobby by providing ready-to-go adventures that don't need gamemasters, reading massive rule books, or any other advanced prep.<br /><br />I definitely think the D&D brand is strong enough to get away with this, even though the "traditional" role-players will howl like gutted otaygh at the idea of abandoning the idea of a distinct rule-set (at least until later).<br /><br />The main competition to tabletop RPG is, of course, computer RPGs, not different editions. And you can't succeed against them by trying to be like them. They are ready to go out of the box, much more spectacular, and much easier to use. Instead we need to levearge the advantages of tabletop, which include (a) it's a social activity done face-to-face, (b) there is less of a barrier to creating your own content, and (c) you can act in a manner not envisaged by the designer/writer of the game. We need to provide this to people.Reverance Pavanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29916147537671923862012-04-27T11:39:23.812-04:002012-04-27T11:39:23.812-04:00I probably misread as I can't find anything th...I probably misread as I can't find anything that mentions compatibility now, though I would have sworn that one of their statements said otherwise.Russell M.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16697123171475575862012-04-27T11:33:08.293-04:002012-04-27T11:33:08.293-04:00Since most Pathfinder fans switched over from 3.5,...Since most Pathfinder fans switched over from 3.5, I wonder how printing the same edition they already own will win them back. I think the only way to get those customers back is to actually offer new content for their favorite system.<br />WotC has stated they want to support all D&D players, not just those using the current version of the rules. If they're serious, they should provide new content for older versions, maybe in Dragon and Dungeon.Jasper Polanenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41416757887221748182012-04-27T11:19:28.226-04:002012-04-27T11:19:28.226-04:00I wanted to add that making all editions available...I wanted to add that making all editions available is a brilliant move. RPG systems aren't like PCs or gaming consoles. At least they don't have to be. If history has shown us anything, the fanbase doesn't convert the second a new edition drops. More importantly, the people who don't convert go elsewhere. <br /><br />Let's be honest about what this whole 5E thing is about: recapturing lost revenue streams. Keeping all of the editions in print, and making multi-edition modules would probably be the best thing they could do to accomplish this goal. The problem is that none of modules, supplements, or splatbooks sell as well as those corebooks, which is why we're seeing the turnaround time between editions shrink.Gazraxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89320338884716272402012-04-27T10:13:25.056-04:002012-04-27T10:13:25.056-04:00If WotC reprint 3.5, they have product for all thr...<i>If WotC reprint 3.5, they have product for all three groups.</i><br /><br />Yeah, and also think of this from the perspective of a Hasbro product manager:<br /><br />"Wait, you mean we released a game under an open license that someone else based a game on, and that game is outselling our current flagship? And we still own this intellectual property? And we're not using it to steal those customers back?"<br /><br />Granted, there is more brand loyalty at work here now (as Pathfinder fans really like Paizo); it's not just about rules. But from a business perspective, it seems silly not to attempt to get some of those customers back.Brendanhttp://untimately.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63154065463142112152012-04-27T10:08:30.328-04:002012-04-27T10:08:30.328-04:00losing Cook seems like a blow to the game design a...losing Cook seems like a blow to the game design and constrains some "higher up" put on their vision. if you chase a guy down to do a long project and hes out after a few months = Gong Show.Karlhttp://twitter.com/XnontheistXnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81179716900865252512012-04-27T09:56:37.032-04:002012-04-27T09:56:37.032-04:00 Their stated goal has not been compatibility with... Their stated goal has not been compatibility with past editions, but rather the ability to recreate the style of game that was present in all editions. In other words, the wand 4E players to be able to play a game that feels like Fourth, 1E players to be able to play a game that feels like 1E, etc. It does not seem like they are trying to make a game that can work with all past published products.Brendan Strejceknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30032536972814149792012-04-27T08:56:51.665-04:002012-04-27T08:56:51.665-04:00Where did you hear that it was going to be compati...Where did you hear that it was going to be compatible with "all editions"? I think you might be misreading something, as all I've heard is that they want to give all the options they can so you can make it "your game", but the base will remain the same for everybody.Nick Clinitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50517669898107280772012-04-27T08:16:40.808-04:002012-04-27T08:16:40.808-04:00Supposedly 5th edition Dungeons&Dragons is goi...Supposedly 5th edition Dungeons&Dragons is going to be compatible with all versions of Dungeons&Dragons -- though after 4th edition, I'll believe that when I see it.<br /><br /><br />Either way, I agree that it's in WotC's best interests to cater to, or at least make available, all editions of D&D (at least in .PDF format).<br /><br />Now for a bit of a ramble...<br /><br />It might be a bad time for Hasbro to make money off of tabletop D&D, but I think it's a great time to be a tabletop D&D gamer. I will concede that I am probably not one to comment on this, as I have no real experience in any other eras of D&D to base this on.<br /><br />However, my gaming group has started to embrace the whole "Old School Renaissance" and we, spritely early-mid 20's nerds without any real 1st. Edition AD&D experience, have started collecting (from Amazon.com, mostly) old modules for play. It took awhile, but my Pathfinder conversion of Against the Giants is complete, and my group's level 9 party is busily making its way through Steading of the Hill Giant Chief. It's been pretty awesome: my players describe it as "the best Dungeons and Dragons experience" they've ever had - vastly superior to the published modules currently proffered by WotC and Paizo (although it could be that I just naturally excel at DMing such "organic" modules).<br /><br />Were WotC to offer .PDFs of all the old 1e modules, I'd probably buy up every last one. God knows I'm doing it on Amazon.com right now as I now have the entire A1-A4 series, GDQ, X1, S1, S4, B1-3, C1-2 and I1. Expedition to the Barrier Peaks along with White Plume Mountain and Village of Hommlet are on the way. <br />After my group completes their Pathfinder rendition of GDQ (minus Q), we're going to pick up Castles&Crusades for the rest of the modules (hopefully C&C is fully compatible with 1e without too much reworking).<br /><br />Honestly, the fact that my group and I are spending all this money buying from 3rd party retailers and not WotC is really all their fault; there's so much amazing content out there that I'd gladly pay for -- after I gobble up the hard copy of the module from Amazon, I promptly turn around and pirate a .pdf of the same module for my tablet. Were I given the option, I'd quite literally PAY twice for the same module -- once for the hard copy to give myself the warm fuzzies collecting, and once for the .PDF to actually use during my tabletop sessions.Speaking of which, does anyone know of a good site where I can legally purchase the .pdf files for the old modules?Russell M.noreply@blogger.com