tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post5427624063044050086..comments2024-03-29T00:32:33.920-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Retrospective: White DwarfJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46642694644943515082008-11-07T09:06:00.000-05:002008-11-07T09:06:00.000-05:00I loved the old White Dwarf. Of course, I had such...I loved the old White Dwarf. Of course, I had such enthusiasm for role-playing at the time that I used to read everything in it, including articles on games I didn't own. I can recall attempting to puzzle out game mechanics by reading stat blocks and the like.<BR/><BR/>But it's more than just nostalgia. I also loved the irreverant style of writing, the reviews and letters, and the miniatures painting advice columns, too. I also have a lot of fond memories for The Castle of Lost Souls, which was a four-part solo adventure game that kept me busy in between sessions of D&D.<BR/><BR/>If you're interested, here's my own paean to White Dwarf that I wrote a while back on The Silver Key: http://thesilverkey.blogspot.com/2008/02/white-dwarf-remembering-great-old.htmlBrian Murphyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05563309422791320114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35586872548534905002008-11-06T14:09:00.000-05:002008-11-06T14:09:00.000-05:00The old WD's are great. sadly they dont make it li...The old WD's are great. sadly they dont make it like that anymore....<BR/><BR/>we could use a WD and a Dragon magazine again...your right.carmachuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06037584604296331790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75074804587163996422008-11-06T10:45:00.000-05:002008-11-06T10:45:00.000-05:00I stand corrected. My fictional ancient geography ...I stand corrected. My fictional ancient geography isn't what it used to be. ;)<BR/><BR/>I'm thinking of doing a short <I>CoC</I> along similar lines; five adventures each set in a different era, with common antagonists pulling the stories together. A twist on the traditional global campaign, with the episodes separated by time rather than distance.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, one of the scenarios I'm thinking of is one set during the advance of the Hyperborean ice, likely using <I>Runequest</I>. It is perhaps unconsciously inspired by that old <I>White Dwarf</I> scenario.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83099126443242716922008-11-06T10:22:00.000-05:002008-11-06T10:22:00.000-05:00"Things Ancient & Modern" - Wasn'..."Things Ancient & Modern" - Wasn't Hyberborea, it was the lost continent of The'em-Hydra (sp?), ca 500 million years ago as I recall! :)<BR/><BR/>I agree that using D&D rather than Runequest for a very un-D&D-ish swords and sorcery world was kinda odd. Nice scenario, though. I think it might work well with players playing both the modern CoC PCs and the ancient D&D ones, in alternate sessions.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11339195614680744272008-11-06T10:21:00.000-05:002008-11-06T10:21:00.000-05:00A lot of the writers for early issues of White Dwa...A lot of the writers for early issues of <I>White Dwarf</I> had honed their craft on the early English APAs such as <I>Underworld Oracle</I> and <I>Trollcrusher</I>, to name the two that immediately spring to mind.<BR/><BR/>England seemed to have a much richer APA scene at the time than the US (Lee Gold's <I>Alarums & Excursions</I> being the notable exception), and many of the ideas and articles of early <I>White Dwarf</I> were drawn directly from this pool of resources.Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-55711839943684232282008-11-06T09:34:00.000-05:002008-11-06T09:34:00.000-05:00Ignatius, I will email you a bit later. Bear in mi...Ignatius, I will email you a bit later. Bear in mind that I'm no expert in desktop publishing (DTP, which probably isn't the current term), but I think there are some very basic tweaks that can be made to the layout which will greatly improve the overall look of the magazine.<BR/><BR/>Richard, as I recall, that crossover adventure used <I>AD&D</I> for the Hyperborean half, which always struck me as odd, since there was a perfectly usable fantasy version of the ruleset in <I>Runequest</I>. Still, it was this sort of oddity which made <I>White Dwarf</I> the magazine it was.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60431516244024104512008-11-06T08:33:00.000-05:002008-11-06T08:33:00.000-05:00Firstly, bravo: I think you've summed up WD br...Firstly, bravo: I think you've summed up WD brilliantly, in every particular. I was a regular reader from about #36 to about #120, when I finally let it go (something I should have done by #100, really); then I went on to Pyramid for a while. Runequest was big in the UK, but I don't think it ever overshadowed D&D. Overall, I think the industry landscape was flatter: people played Bushido and Bunnies and Burrows - the big games had to share a very diverse territory.<BR/><BR/><I>too narrowly focused on one style and/or rules set to the detriment of simple good ideas usable in a variety of games and styles.</I><BR/><BR/>What appealed to me about these two zines, which Dragon never delivered, was a sense that the material in them could be applied very broadly. I don't know how to express this, exactly - you should be able to file the stats off any bit of gaming material and repurpose it - but somehow the Dragon stuff (generally) seemed more deeply buried in a set of D&D assumptions, and not so open to mix-n-matching with whatever eccentric WW2/Vikings/Flash Gordon game you might be running.<BR/><BR/>I imagine that CD contains the multi-part adventure, spread over 3 issues, that used 2 parties: one in a CoC investigative setting, the other in (Hyborea or Hyperborea). I wonder if that's worth dusting off?richardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517340075234811323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88622644429616754502008-11-06T08:12:00.000-05:002008-11-06T08:12:00.000-05:00Currently, Fight On! is my favorite gaming magazin...<I>Currently, Fight On! is my favorite gaming magazine.</I><BR/><BR/>Mine as well. It has its flaws, but its virtues far outweigh them and those of anything extant that might even remotely be considered a competitor.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61845955917553233752008-11-06T08:10:00.000-05:002008-11-06T08:10:00.000-05:00There is nothing for any genre other than D&D ...<I>There is nothing for any genre other than D&D based high fantasy and there is a lot of emphasis still on 3rd edition in particular.</I><BR/><BR/>And that right there is I think the tragedy of our hobby: it's become much too narrowly focused on one style and/or rules set to the detriment of simple good ideas usable in a variety of games and styles. I won't claim the past was some kind of glorious playground of rules-free creativity, but I do think the older games tended to much looser mechanically and thus made it easier to adapt material written for them to other games and styles of play than is true now.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18688068816257805552008-11-06T08:08:00.000-05:002008-11-06T08:08:00.000-05:00Really?Really. :) Don't get me wrong; I love early...<I>Really?</I><BR/><BR/>Really. :) Don't get me wrong; I love early WD, but I find that most North American gamers tend to look at it the way they might look at British TV; they only remember the superb 10% of it and then pronounce it superior to poor old homegrown counterpart (which was also 90% forgettable). <BR/><BR/>But it's a taste thing, I'll grant. For my money, when WD was good, it was <I>really</I> good, but it didn't have the same level of consistent lower-level excellence that <I>Dragon</I> generally had.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11564165153288451762008-11-06T08:06:00.000-05:002008-11-06T08:06:00.000-05:00Hi Kelvin -My email is iggyumlaut@gmail.com. I'd b...Hi Kelvin -<BR/><BR/>My email is iggyumlaut@gmail.com. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on improving our layout if you have some time. I don't even know what DTP is.<BR/><BR/>I feel that our layout could be better in some ways; on the other hand, I, and I think I am not alone with this, actively dislike layouts that are too busy, as we saw with some 3e and WoD books. But there's always room for improvement and if you think you could help us out we'd love to hear your thoughts.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the props, Philotomy! Issue 3 should be to lulu by this weekend.<BR/><BR/>- IgnatiusUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01134033175611675677noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85563173202336749812008-11-06T06:55:00.000-05:002008-11-06T06:55:00.000-05:00Despite the D&D slant, which makes it not of m...Despite the <I>D&D</I> slant, which makes it not of much use to me, I like the spirit of <I>Fight On!</I> a lot. It has some of that enthusiasm of the early <I>WD</I>, but it also has similar layout problems, which isn't nearly as acceptable now that DTP has become so easy and accessible. <I>Fight On!</I> would be a truly great magazine if it was tidied up a bit.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-90725256674884668832008-11-06T05:12:00.000-05:002008-11-06T05:12:00.000-05:00If you're looking for some of the old writers/cont...If you're looking for some of the old writers/contributors to White Dwarf, some of them turn up every year for the UK Battlemasters / Continuum Convention in Leicester. It's nice to put faces to those names!Philterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13530054261796573426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36152912778819926602008-11-05T23:34:00.000-05:002008-11-05T23:34:00.000-05:00Hey, s'mon---I've been trying to get some confirma...Hey, s'mon---<BR/><BR/>I've been trying to get some confirmable info on reprint rights for some WD material for awhile now, and your contract info sounds like a good lead. Canyou please email me at grodog@gmail.com? <BR/><BR/>Allan.grodoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800184312511280050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-21516013617554946112008-11-05T18:34:00.000-05:002008-11-05T18:34:00.000-05:00I teach copyright law in the UK as a senior lectur...I teach copyright law in the UK as a senior lecturer. I also have read White Dwarf's 1980s contract for contributors, when I submitted some stuff to them.<BR/><BR/>By the contract, contributors retained copyright in their contributions. The contract licensed White Dwarf to reproduce the contribution only twice - once in White Dwarf, and allowing for 1 reprint in eg 'Best of White Dwarf'. <BR/><BR/>Thus the CD, electronic and involving countless reproductions, is clearly in breach of numerous copyrights. This is equally true in Australia, also a signatory to the Berne copyright convention.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61719952958726585512008-11-05T17:37:00.000-05:002008-11-05T17:37:00.000-05:00I loved the older incarnations of WD. As a previou...I loved the older incarnations of WD. As a previous poster mentioned, zines like Fight On! still keep that spirit alive. There are also options like Alarums and Excursions, too. Heck, there's even my Iridia zine that seeks to keep that print fanzine spirit alive.christianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09650456794111980661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16885845255082766062008-11-05T15:42:00.000-05:002008-11-05T15:42:00.000-05:00Maybe it's just that during that time of my li...Maybe it's just that during that time of my life I had a lot of time to pour over magazines, reading and re-reading, and re-reading, but Dungeon Architect articles not withstanding, I really prefer White Dwarf issues BEFORE 20.<BR/><BR/>Re-reading some of the really early issues is fascinating stuff at the end of the age spectrum I now find myself at:<BR/><BR/>The MonsterMark system (an attempt to create a CR system)<BR/><BR/>A review of the new game "Traveller" from a D&D-centric view point<BR/><BR/>And other gems...maxamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17143803116262064891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20821028640526018992008-11-05T15:35:00.000-05:002008-11-05T15:35:00.000-05:00I was never a huge WD fan: I usually liked 1-2 ar...I was never a huge WD fan: I usually liked 1-2 articles per issue, at most (I wasn't playing CoC at the time, and I've still never played Traveller or RQ). I really liked "The Dungeon Architect" and the Griselda fiction, but in general, I only found 1 worthwhile piece per issue, and way too many ads. <BR/><BR/>That's my major impression of WD, actually: more ads than content, despite some top-notch articles, fiction, and adventures being published between its covers. <BR/><BR/>When I bought the WD archive, my impression was solidified, though somewhat softened, since I certainly have use for the CoC and RQ materials now, and perhaps even Traveller one day.<BR/><BR/>Allan.grodoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800184312511280050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64163834043939804612008-11-05T15:18:00.000-05:002008-11-05T15:18:00.000-05:00Okay, I've been seriously looking at this sinc...Okay, I've been seriously looking at this since I read this earlier today and I think the option of making a magazine to fill this void is entirely doable.<BR/><BR/>Completely non-biased as far as a favorite game system, game company/ publisher. Post articles on D&D 4E, S&W, WoD/ OWoD, CoC, Delta Green, DitV, all articles from the hobbyists interested in those games. Additional monsters, treasure, game tweaks, reviews, GMing advice or things learned. All the kinds of crap that should be in a magazine for gamers...without the publisher bias, or bloat that comes from magazines becoming glorified catalogues.<BR/><BR/>I think people would dig it, and getting folks to write reviews or articles would be fairly easy as the hobbyist is the focus. Cool bits on upcoming releases for everything. Not just WotC stuff or WW stuff, or Indie stuff...but EVERYTHING RPG related, Old School or not.<BR/><BR/>Is this an unreasonable idea?Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02269727660667017348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27835202495657831342008-11-05T15:08:00.000-05:002008-11-05T15:08:00.000-05:00Currently, Fight On! is my favorite gaming magazin...Currently, <I><A HREF="http://www.fightonmagazine.com/" REL="nofollow">Fight On!</A></I> is my favorite gaming magazine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36073376092843020022008-11-05T14:55:00.000-05:002008-11-05T14:55:00.000-05:00While I appreciate and respect the efforts of Kobo...While I appreciate and respect the efforts of Kobold Quarterly, it has absolutely nothing for me. It comes from the world that sees all gaming as D&D. There is nothing for any genre other than D&D based high fantasy and there is a lot of emphasis still on 3rd edition in particular.<BR/>I don't consider that a gaming magazine but rather a magazine devoted to a specific product.<BR/><BR/>Knights of the Dinner Table magazine has a much wider range, though it still tends to skew towards Hackmaster products.OlmanFeelyushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17521657876810568251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-57150406042391727082008-11-05T14:13:00.000-05:002008-11-05T14:13:00.000-05:00Yeah, like the versions of D&D (and other game...Yeah, like the versions of D&D (and other games I guess) the White Dwarf Magazine now bears little resemblance to what it was when it started. That's a real bummer too because it used to have a lot of great, varied material and now it's largely a glorified GW Catalog.<BR/><BR/>I liked the gaming material in WD, weird or not. The old Dragon magazine was good too. I haven't found anything to really take their place.<BR/><BR/>I'd love to see a gaming magazine that is broad, varied, mixed homebrew/ alternate kludgy rules, neat new monster ideas and treasures. I DO like polished looking products, but I also like hobbyist magazines over predominantly industry driven material.<BR/><BR/>Hey, why don't we create something like that?Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02269727660667017348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69822182580459599032008-11-05T13:24:00.000-05:002008-11-05T13:24:00.000-05:00"I'm not one of those people who worships at the a..."I'm not one of those people who worships at the altar of WD, because the simple reality is that a lot of its content, indeed most of it, was pretty mediocre."<BR/><BR/>Really? This is one of the places where we part company, James. Maybe I'm reading this old 'zine through rose-colored glasses, but I thought most of the stuff in WD was creative, and if it needed work, a little kitbashing did the trick. Your mileage obviously varies. ;)Victor Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928494560036528653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71263325274332616762008-11-05T13:21:00.000-05:002008-11-05T13:21:00.000-05:00White Dwarf was the only gaming 'zine I had a subs...<I>White Dwarf</I> was the only gaming 'zine I had a subscription to, for quite a long time - pretty much from WD#30-something through WD#92. I stopped after that, because Games Workshop had decided to turn it into a "house organ" which was fine, but not to my taste or interest.<BR/><BR/>The graphics were almost always far superior to the rather uninspired layout of <I>The Dragon</I>, and the adventures were almost always a blast to read as well as to play. Combine that with the great <I>Traveller</I> stuff by Andy Slack, Bob McWilliams and others, and it was a really solid 'zine for a long time.<BR/><BR/>(Now I just gotta go dig up one of those WD CD-ROMs....)Victor Raymondhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05928494560036528653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-5973694126995752012008-11-05T13:20:00.000-05:002008-11-05T13:20:00.000-05:00Non-WFRP rpg article, obviously. The magazine didn...Non-<I>WFRP</I> <B>rpg</B> article, obviously. The magazine didn't become completely devoid of content until about #200. ;)thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.com