tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post5649996972209847748..comments2024-03-28T01:53:34.870-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: What is Roleplaying?James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58800983159046431832011-06-11T05:18:34.315-04:002011-06-11T05:18:34.315-04:00At the London D&D Meetup I meet a lot of new p...At the London D&D Meetup I meet a lot of new players who have played computer 'rpgs', often 10 or 15 years ago, but never played a tabletop rpg. Some kind of introductory text is definitely beneficial to these people. I'd particularly appreciate a summary of the differences between tabletop games & computer games, eg:<br /><br />1. Group activity - the GM can only run one group at a time.<br />2. No reloads - no 'save game'.<br />3. In character play is fundamental to most RPGs, unlike computer games.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78668150372203463712011-06-03T23:50:20.024-04:002011-06-03T23:50:20.024-04:00Well, back when I got my 2e AD&D books, the on...Well, back when I got my 2e AD&D books, the only thing close to an RPG that I had played int he past was Hero Quest, which wasn't really role playing, it was a board game. The text in the beginning of the Player's Handbook really did introduce me to what role playing games are, and how they are different from other types of games. It was confusing at first, and it did help when later on we met others who played, but I think I would have been completely lost without that section to explain it to me in that time (1991).Julianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08239874124299789241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41432218478410537742011-06-02T12:17:43.506-04:002011-06-02T12:17:43.506-04:00The thing is that games like Thousand Suns are the...The thing is that games like <em>Thousand Suns</em> are the type of game that you might not think need a "What is Roleplaying?" or example of play sections -- due to their smaller print runs and less "mainstream" appeal -- but this is exactly the wrong line of thought.<br /><br /><em>Thousand Suns</em> is a game that also has the potential to appeal to an underdeveloped market -- the SF fan. TS's excellent "Transmissions" products are ideal for bringing the SF aficionado into the role playing game hobby. Many SF readers have never read a single role playing game product, or seen a game played. These people need these sections -- at least when they are well done.<br /><br />As your ability to increase the variety of "Transmissions" titles increases, so does your chance of coming into contact with these overlooked gamers. Let's say you were able -- by some miracle -- to make a "Transmissions from The Culture" supplement. If the book included new short fiction set in The Culture, it would have value as a product for brick and mortar book stores and would be an opportunity to expand the marketplace.<br /><br />One of the biggest problems with the modern gaming market is that we seem perfectly happy to keep segmenting a shrinking pie, rather than growing the pie.<br /><br /><em>Thousand Suns</em> and <em>Colonial Gothic</em> deserve bigger audiences, they don't have themes that compete with a lot of other games, and they are easy to learn.Christian Lindkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12381310217234123318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83003402157708818242011-06-02T12:07:26.034-04:002011-06-02T12:07:26.034-04:00The vast majority of these sections are overlong a...The vast majority of these sections are overlong and don't give the tyro any idea what roleplaying is.<br /><br />I've always felt one of the best ways to explain it was like playing cops and robbers, except with rules to alleviate the "you're dead, no I'm not!" problems. Simple, to the point, and then the game can go on to introduce and define the various terms and put it all together in a way the reader can understand easily.<br /><br />Nowadays, you could almost tap players of World of Warcraft and Oblivion and they would have a handle on some of the basics. As much as CRPGs are not tabletop RPGs, they have stats and character customization, so it's a short hop between the two. Then, when they've rolled up a character and start playing is when you can highlight the differences and see how much deeper immersion there can be in a tabletop RPG.Eric R. Wirsinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04632409261940844934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87220200161556575362011-06-02T11:29:18.082-04:002011-06-02T11:29:18.082-04:00Add me to the list of players who never had a ment...Add me to the list of players who never had a mentor. My friends and I got into gaming together. We'd heard about it but none of us knew anyone who played. We got our parents to buy us D&D and dove in on our own.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116795932377593506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56284247423718109522011-06-02T11:26:32.938-04:002011-06-02T11:26:32.938-04:00I do like examples of play and find them informati...I do like examples of play and find them informative and useful.<br /><br />I've never paid attention to the "what is role playing" sections. I knew what it was before I owned my first game.Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17116795932377593506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78207999375875639912011-06-02T02:03:25.593-04:002011-06-02T02:03:25.593-04:00Hey James. Here's my little disseration on th...Hey James. Here's my little disseration on the subject: http://toomuchjohnson.blogspot.com/2011/01/return-with-us-now.html Enjoy.Smokestack Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06253933872608999580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31537452322319266952011-06-01T23:16:25.335-04:002011-06-01T23:16:25.335-04:00I find there are two types of "what is rolepl...I find there are two types of "what is roleplaying." The first is an honest attempt to introduce people' the other is an attempt to force a certain philosophy of play on people. I don't think the first is necessary,* and I find the second to be very annoying. On any regard I rarely read them these days, and the games that started me on the hobby really didn't have them. <br /><br />That being said, I quite like designer notes (provided they come at the end of the book), to give an idea of what the designer's philosophy was. Also good for seeing whether they succeeded or not.<br /><br />[* I will make an exception for licensed media properties, which also tend to be bought by non-gamers. Even then most people know what rpgs are.**]<br /><br />[** That being said, I did like <i>The Laundry RPG</i> approach to the problem which tackled it with excellent human, and made an excellent point in producing a "if you are familiar with computer rpgs" section about the differences between the two mediums. Now, when you mention epg in most places, people think of computer rpgs first, D&D type fames second.]Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67505531662917078562011-06-01T22:23:37.421-04:002011-06-01T22:23:37.421-04:00I still think that is the best way to learn to pla...<i>I still think that is the best way to learn to play... and although we learned a lot of the 'rules' incorrectly, we figured out what the point of the game was pretty quickly all on our own.</i><br /><br>This is my feeling, too, but I do wonder how viable it is anymore. Back in the day, it seemed like every teenager in America was playing RPGs, so there was a ready source of mentors for newcomers to the hobby. That's no longer the case.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49970573022475102222011-06-01T19:53:07.993-04:002011-06-01T19:53:07.993-04:00> On some level, I've come to accept withou...> On some level, I've come to accept without question that tabletop roleplaying isn't an expanding hobby and certainly not one that anyone comes into blind. <br /><br />Is it not possible that one reason why tabletop roleplaying isn't an expanding hobby is that the whole concept of what it actually /is/ has become restricted and cliched by the 500lb ("fantasy") gorilla that is D&D of whatever version?<br /><br />> If you get into tabletop RPGs nowadays, odds are you already know what they are -- at least, that's my unthinking assumption.<br /><br />Strange, then, that when I asked people to define what a roleplaying game *is not* there was general confusion. <br />(Care to define what one *is*?)<br /><br />Giving examples of expected play certainly can help up to a point, but again there's that old "caller" example cited from OD&D. The game "as published" isn't necessarily the same as the game "as played" - or "as it could be played" (which is where OD&D really hit the jackpot).irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12215185881501392755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-52910899983793837172011-06-01T17:38:40.433-04:002011-06-01T17:38:40.433-04:00While "What is Role-playing?" is probabl...While "What is Role-playing?" is probably a waste of space, I think examples of play can be great. Especially if a game is trying for a different feel. Something like Fate or Dogs in the Vineyard is easier to grasp when you can see how the author envisions it played.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11286544022662495363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62779255847057130792011-06-01T17:27:29.162-04:002011-06-01T17:27:29.162-04:00I actually had a gravesite for Black Dougal in my ...I actually had a gravesite for Black Dougal in my campaign with the epitaph "By the pricking of my thumb..."<br /><br />Sadly, no one ever figured out who he was.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82604876432628675522011-06-01T16:59:41.896-04:002011-06-01T16:59:41.896-04:00Will no one spare a thought for poor Black Dougal,...Will no one spare a thought for poor Black Dougal, whose sudden demise (from a failed saving throw vs. a poison needle trap) in the Moldvay Basic "example of play" brought home to this then-novice player and aspiring DM the intrinsic inevitability of Player Character death and the stark ruthlessness of the dice?ClawCarverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07236809815213343281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-15698760778231988782011-06-01T15:00:17.912-04:002011-06-01T15:00:17.912-04:00I've always been fond of the Call of Cthulhu e...I've always been fond of the <i>Call of Cthulhu</i> example of play -- the one with the missing brain and the Deep One gangster -- but that's probably more to do with nostalgia and general affection for <i>Cthulhu</i> than anything else.<br /><br />Still, I can't remember the details of any other such example, so it had to be doing something right!thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71234107028150610562011-06-01T14:47:05.910-04:002011-06-01T14:47:05.910-04:00I really enjoy examples of play and think they are...I really enjoy examples of play and think they are useful both as an introduction to RPGs for newbies as well as suggesting the tone and kind of gameplay to be expected from that particular RPG.Mallius Vanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11017597212038657943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-35574904562430757972011-06-01T14:10:16.908-04:002011-06-01T14:10:16.908-04:00I think an example of play section is a good idea ...I think an example of play section is a good idea in an RPG, but a tutorial is just overkill.Anthony Simeonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04312134763577949405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28003823088679871112011-06-01T13:57:50.745-04:002011-06-01T13:57:50.745-04:00I started the hobby in about 1999 when I was in mi...I started the hobby in about 1999 when I was in middle school. Before then, I had played MUDs, the great-granddaddy of the modern day MMO. I had heard the name Dungeons and Dragons before, but as I lived in the Bible Belt, all I knew about it was SATAN - AVOID AT PERIL TO SOUL.<br />The example of play in the ADnD 2e handbook (the two fighters, the cleric, and the wererats) left a big impression on me. One of the characters was somewhat cowardly, the cleric I think, and one fighter was very cautious, one bold.<br />Point being, it showed a play style where a character was a person first, and a list of skills and stats second. That is something that has always stuck with me.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12351926278188565029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41204418373873173492011-06-01T13:57:24.959-04:002011-06-01T13:57:24.959-04:00"(3) Audio-record an actual play session and ..."(3) Audio-record an actual play session and put it online as a podcast."<br /><br />Please don't. I have yet to hear a podcasted D&D session that wasn't some level of embarrassing (from mildly to excruciatingly). Sorry to say but our little hobby does not lend itself to being spectated, at all, to put it mildly.cibethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16815626047653230637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59145824463556391052011-06-01T13:50:44.624-04:002011-06-01T13:50:44.624-04:00I'm greatly in favor of you, as the author, fo...I'm greatly in favor of you, as the author, following your gut instinct. If you're not excited about writing a section like that, then skip it. Your energy and passion is better used on other stuff. (Same goes for me & others.)<br /><br />Here's some brainstorming for creative alternatives -- (1) Link or suggest to other books, websites, or blogs that you think have quality "what is roleplaying" essays. (2) Write one up separately for your blog. (3) Audio-record an actual play session and put it online as a podcast. (4) Look at how short the OD&D "Preparation for the Campaign" is (Vol-1, p. 5).Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62113110336890350312011-06-01T12:56:15.505-04:002011-06-01T12:56:15.505-04:00Even to this day, I absolutely adore the example o...Even to this day, I absolutely adore the example of play in the AD&D 2e PHB. It succeeded enormously at showing what a real game session looks like.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09358099916267465455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58204726235460027352011-06-01T12:51:59.488-04:002011-06-01T12:51:59.488-04:00I think text about “what is roleplaying” is still ...I think text about “what is roleplaying” is still important. I think examples of play are twice as important.<br /><br />But, I think they should be separate. Like <i>Traveller</i> Book Zero. Or LotFP’s tutorial booklet. Or (to some extent) the D&D Basic Sets. Or the <i>GURPS for Dummies</i> book.<br /><br />And not every game needs them. Many (most?) games just aren’t that appropriate as introductory games. (Although a good group can make any game a good introductory game, but that’s out of the hands of the author/designer/developer.)Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66963611575073567732011-06-01T12:23:52.467-04:002011-06-01T12:23:52.467-04:00The first "D&D" book I had access to...The first "D&D" book I had access to was D&D book with the wizard and the fighter attacking a Dragon that came in the 'basic' set box (Holmes). But none of us learned D&D by reading the book --- we all learned it by sitting down to play and being told, "Okay, roll 3d6 and total for your strength, intelligence, wisdom, etc." The DM (who had played before with a different group) gave us advice (i.e.: buy armor and weapons if you are a fighter... it is dark in the dungeon so you will want torches, etc.) but we pretty much understood how the game was "supposed" to work simply because the 'roleplaying' part wasn't so much pretending to be someone else like an actor, it was just putting yourself in someone else's shoes tot he extent that you had to make decisions about what the character would do with the information you had available. It was like one of those 'Lifeboat' exercises except we were just enjoying the fantasy instead of learning something about difficult moral choices.<br /><br />I still think that is the best way to learn to play... and although we learned a lot of the 'rules' incorrectly, we figured out what the point of the game was pretty quickly all on our own.Stefan Poaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192911890556534923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43981216913710561872011-06-01T12:08:39.670-04:002011-06-01T12:08:39.670-04:00For some strange reason, I usually enjoy reading e...For some strange reason, I usually enjoy reading examples of play. One thing I noticed even then was the prevalence of a "caller," something I almost never encountered in our local groups. Perhaps we were all naturally too Chaotic. :)Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71693514141575479332011-06-01T12:07:35.859-04:002011-06-01T12:07:35.859-04:00I'll chime in that I usually glaze over during...I'll chime in that I usually glaze over during the "What is this Game" section... but I usually really like the play examples, particularly if they continue them (with the same players) throughout the rules. They not only humanize what can become a blurry set of numbers, but give light guidance into how the rules should be used in service of the game and let us a little more into the mind of the designer as we see how it thinks we should be playing its game.Sir Yobgod Ababua the Handlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01880522667399635154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89006448313404199802011-06-01T12:04:16.216-04:002011-06-01T12:04:16.216-04:00I think the most valuable part of the "What i...I think the most valuable part of the "What is role-playing" section of any book is to provide an idea of how the GM expects exchanges to transpire. You can basically give people a sample of what you think is normal player-GM interaction and even help set the tone for your game.Brandonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00435243803003028117noreply@blogger.com