tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post6176974841955258029..comments2024-03-28T06:20:47.668-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Blue Book, Cover to Cover (Part XIII)James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-59546719241566548272010-07-25T19:17:51.582-04:002010-07-25T19:17:51.582-04:00Frank it's funny you mention T&T, I was go...Frank it's funny you mention T&T, I was going to refer to it in my previous post. I suspect the failing of these introductory games is that the kind of people who want to play these games enough to buy them don't want to stop at level 3 or 5, and consider the sets insufficiently simplistic. I remember starting off on the red Basic D&D boxed set, and immediately being disappointed by the level limit, but having insufficient funds for Expert. But then when I bought T&T I was overawed by the vistas it presented me with. Even then - I must have been 11 or 12 I think - I was sure that the system of ever-increasing stats was weird and the whole thing had a childish air to it, but at least it went past level 3, i.e. was a complete game.<br /><br />I also tried Dragon Warriors (?) and an excellent one-book 16th century swords and sorcery called <i>Maelstrom</i>, all of which seemed more complete and compelling than my level-limited basic set, and in the end I didn't get into D&D properly until I was 15 and got hold of AD&D, which really had a feeling of being an arcane tome of mysteries. <i>That's</i> what I think I was looking for, not the scrubbed-down purity of a basic set.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61859331451886063712010-07-25T18:44:02.967-04:002010-07-25T18:44:02.967-04:00"is there any reason that this Holmes book sh..."is there any reason that this Holmes book shouldn't just be considered plagiarism? "<br /><br />Because he was working for Gygax, Holmes duplicating text from the earlier books is, effectively, as if Gygax had duplicated his own writing.<br /><br />So, no, it's not plagiarism. In a sense, the real author is the company, and as such is able to reuse any material it owns as much as it wants.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60863771766454428752010-07-25T12:59:07.921-04:002010-07-25T12:59:07.921-04:00The clarity of Holmes also has to be measured agai...The clarity of Holmes also has to be measured against the games of the day, not modern games. Probably the only game of the era that made an attempt to be more clear was Tunnels and Trolls, which unfortunately was marred by silly spell names that made it seem childish, especially to teenagers wanting to feel "grown up".<br /><br />FrankFrankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15855679156477779666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31301926981864932922010-07-25T11:44:03.816-04:002010-07-25T11:44:03.816-04:00Holmes was (largely) intelligible to my 10 year-ol...Holmes was (largely) intelligible to my 10 year-old self and my friends, so I'd say that it succeeded in its goals, since, even now, there are parts of the LBBs that are unclear to me. I doubt I'd have been able to make heads or tails of OD&D back then if it'd been my first encounter with the game.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60155476022458291072010-07-25T10:58:15.560-04:002010-07-25T10:58:15.560-04:00Your reading of them doesn't make them sound m...Your reading of them doesn't make them sound more clearly presented, although I can appreciate the value of gathering together the main strands of the supplements etc. into an easy collection. It also doesn't seem like much effort has been made to clarify much, and for every clarification there has been added confusion elsewhere. Is that your impression, or do you think this exercise in clarification has achieved its goal?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49746754525873598752010-07-25T10:47:02.300-04:002010-07-25T10:47:02.300-04:00is there any reason that this Holmes book shouldn&...<i>is there any reason that this Holmes book shouldn't just be considered plagiarism? What did it add to OD&D or the hobby that couldn't be summarized in a 2 page addendum? What place does this book fill that isn't already taken by OD&D or AD&D or the supplements?</i><br /><br>I'm not sure how an authorized introductory edition of OD&D could be considered plagiarism in any sense.<br /><br />As for the rest, Holmes represents a path not taken, an alternate future for OD&D, one where the rules of the LBBs and Supplements are presented more clearly while still retaining the original game's emphasis on making the game one's own. Although marketing by TSR tried to make Holmes into an introduction to <i>AD&D</i>, it's not really and would better be described as a mass market version of OD&D aimed at an adult audience, an approach TSR never again tried, which is why OD&D's descendants were treated as "kiddie <i>D&D</i>."James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20858235433754817182010-07-25T08:29:25.522-04:002010-07-25T08:29:25.522-04:00It's a genuine question, Scott.It's a genuine question, Scott.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58067186463283176142010-07-25T07:43:30.171-04:002010-07-25T07:43:30.171-04:00/popcorn/popcornScotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00155926145150934199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11088894770336640812010-07-25T07:20:26.015-04:002010-07-25T07:20:26.015-04:00is there any reason that this Holmes book shouldn&...is there any reason that this Holmes book shouldn't just be considered plagiarism? What did it add to OD&D or the hobby that couldn't be summarized in a 2 page addendum? What place does this book fill that isn't already taken by OD&D or AD&D or the supplements?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29476536134221014922010-07-25T03:00:06.411-04:002010-07-25T03:00:06.411-04:00I'm intriuged by the jewelry value cap. Is it...I'm intriuged by the jewelry value cap. Is it there because the game is introductory, or is Holmes trying to curb the high-value stuff for sake of environment? I rather think it's the introductory-level factor, myself, since ludicrously high-value shinies are both real-world items and a key feature of any treasure horde (as a GM, I prefer multiple small value over one large - but as a player, how could resist fighting through an entire dungeon just to hold 7500 gold in one palm?).Jasonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01320444125159566443noreply@blogger.com