tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post6413871282644723842..comments2024-03-28T06:20:47.668-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: The Best Lovecraftian Movie EverJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63364043805452274182010-03-09T04:13:36.966-05:002010-03-09T04:13:36.966-05:00I saw 'they' last night, quite a good horr...I saw 'they' last night, quite a good horror film that has strong Lovecraftian overtones... more overt and possibly stronger than Alien itself, certainly if you are familiar with Call of Cthulhu, anyway.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25603497929607895182009-12-30T09:36:08.372-05:002009-12-30T09:36:08.372-05:00Science Fiction and Horror are companions that had...Science Fiction and Horror are companions that had their birthing pains in the same maternal bed - the pulps.<br /><br />Both were all about conveying something greater than themselves. For SF, it is usually trunicated to something called - The Sense of Wonder (the majesty and fearful size of the universe) and for Horror (it is creeping terror and unknowable) both of these converge into what good writers do when they create the atmosphere of the novel.<br /><br />So, Alien like many films of the 1970s, it came all together and captured the Zeigest of the moment - like Traveller just a bunch of working class guys & dolls pulled from their work routine by a large impersonal employer (the Company) to be fed through the meatgrider in order to turn a profit or two.<br /><br />Sure, Alien has many flaws when viewed from a SF or Horror cannon that proports to support authencity but nothing can distract from what they attempted and succeeded in doing which was to alter the mood of the audience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56473471636779607042009-12-25T06:25:47.716-05:002009-12-25T06:25:47.716-05:00Possibly my preferred film. A brilliant work!Possibly my preferred film. A brilliant work!Antoniohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17258180992723371727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27113288451605632582009-12-24T23:41:23.902-05:002009-12-24T23:41:23.902-05:00@ The Recursion King: "That's a great quo...@ The Recursion King: "That's a great quote, but obviously wrong... it's not without purpose, it just depends on what perspective you are taking: if it is the universe's then all... will seem purposeless." <br /><br />You are right, of course. Dawkins was referring to the universal perspective ("God's Plan") and my out-of-context quotation did not make that clear.Matthew Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17343263539473683579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78314246016771392872009-12-24T12:24:48.475-05:002009-12-24T12:24:48.475-05:00"So they they lose because they are human mar..."So they they lose because they are human marines, definitely clouded by conscience, remorse, and delusions of morality :) In this case, doing their duty even against reason and judgment."<br /><br />hehe<br /><br />However, the confiscating of ammo occurs because there is 'significant dollar value' attached to the atmosphere processor, not to save anybody's life, as Burke says when they later discuss taking off and nuking the site from orbit. In fact, morality is what stops the whole thing from going completely wrong.. it's Ripley's conscience that makes her take command of the APC and rescue the rest of the squad.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-79032216575711491172009-12-24T09:57:50.190-05:002009-12-24T09:57:50.190-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.rainswepthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06165059567790555748noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31844932968684170152009-12-24T04:54:45.969-05:002009-12-24T04:54:45.969-05:00"We cannot accept that things might be neithe..."We cannot accept that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous: indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose."<br /><br />That's a great quote, but obviously wrong. It's just a matter of perspective. The species propagating and life continuing is a purpose unto itself. The individual's struggle to find a host to do this is a purpose. So no, it's not without purpose, it just depends on what perspective you are taking: if it is the universe's then all of it is just reformed star dust waiting to return to the same dust and will seem purposeless. So, it is both true and false, depending on your frame of reference.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-82486966936304684432009-12-24T00:18:17.230-05:002009-12-24T00:18:17.230-05:00Alien had a profound effect on my adolescent brain...Alien had a profound effect on my adolescent brain. As James pointed out, what was most disturbing about the portrayal of the alien itself was not its supernatural, otherworldly character, but the fact that it was wholly natural. In fact, it mirrored the common behavior of backyard insects. From a certain perspective, Alien was a variation on the "Incredible Shrinking Man" genre -- in this case the human crew members were "shrunken down" to the level of insect prey so that we the audience may experience that reality more viscerally. Alien drew me toward a study of the reproductive biology of insects upon which it was modeled. Beyond the idyllic, childish images of "busy bees" and "lowly caterpillars blooming into butterflies" I discovered the real world of Ichneumonidae. "I cannot persuade myself," Charles Darwin wrote, "that a beneficent and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidae with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of Caterpillars." Biologist Richard Dawkins wrote: "The macabre habits of the Ichneumonidae are shared by other groups of wasps, such as the digger wasps studied by the French naturalist Jean Henri Fabre. Fabre reported that before laying her egg in the catepillar (or grasshopper or bee) a female digger wasp carefully guides her sting into each ganglion of the prey's central nervous system so as to paralyze the animal but not kill it. This way, the meat stays fresh for the growing larva. It is not known whether the paralysis acts as a general anesthetic or if it is like curare in just freezing the victim's ability to move. If the latter, the prey might be aware of being eaten alive from inside but unable to move a muscle to do anything about it. This sounds savagely cruel, but Nature is not cruel, only pitilessly indifferent. This lesson is one of the hardest for humans to learn. We cannot accept that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous: indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose."Matthew Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17343263539473683579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-55114258019638089372009-12-23T17:31:36.946-05:002009-12-23T17:31:36.946-05:00Personally I blame Gormon. He's incompetent th...Personally I blame Gormon. He's incompetent through and through. He freezes under pressure, has no plan B and clearly has no idea what he's doing in any of the film (simulated drops and so on).<br /><br />Perhaps the corporation picked him to lead the team on purpose, if Burke's plan to get one of the crew implanted wasn't spontaneous but preplanned all along.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48281383843391805902009-12-23T14:00:06.552-05:002009-12-23T14:00:06.552-05:00Well, the damage that does the reactor in could be...Well, the damage that does the reactor in could be from the dropship crash, so perhaps they could have kept their ammo after all. ;)<br /><br />I would argue that the dropship crash was more significant than the botched attack, and that was all to do with being complacent (no sentries, leaving the back door open), rather than bad luck. <br /><br />You also have to factor in the first half an hour or so of the marines' briefing, training, etc, which shows them to be a pretty complacent and arrogant bunch.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42947307666167333502009-12-23T12:29:24.441-05:002009-12-23T12:29:24.441-05:00... and if the marines' ammunition is not conf...... and if the marines' ammunition is not confiscated and everyone is firing their standard rifles, there is the possibility that the explosion at the end of the movie instead happens right there and then.JimLotFPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02992397707040836366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41202155675199971732009-12-23T11:55:52.850-05:002009-12-23T11:55:52.850-05:00The automated machine gun scene is all about provi...The automated machine gun scene is all about proving that the Marine's supply of ammunition is finite. The Aliens are relentless, that they exist in huge enough numbers to mob the automated guns, and that eventually you will run out of bullets.Reverend Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11957368852789992095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17635343734134151472009-12-23T10:06:45.248-05:002009-12-23T10:06:45.248-05:00"The likelihood is that, had the aliens not d..."The likelihood is that, had the aliens not destroyed the squad in one fell swoop, the necessity of retreat would not have been apparent."<br /><br />No ammunition and being attacked by a hostile enemy that has knocked a few team member off?That sure seems like retreat and regroup conditions to my tactical mind, at least. <br /><br />But then who knows what would have happened, Gormon is certainly incompetent so maybe you are right.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28644828328166527682009-12-23T09:54:44.872-05:002009-12-23T09:54:44.872-05:00The likelihood is that, had the aliens not destroy...The likelihood is that, had the aliens not destroyed the squad in one fell swoop, the necessity of retreat would not have been apparent.<br /><br />It was only with the death of the commanding officers that Hicks decided to retreat at all. Apone doesn't seem like the type who would run away from a dangerous situation. Their mission was to eradicate the aliens, and, actually, a few successful encounters would only have drawn the marines further into the mess - causing casualties and ultimately leading them to be overwhelmed.<br /><br />The scene with the automated machine guns clearly shows that there were hundreds if not thousands of aliens in that colony.Yog Sothothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02104602393018428099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66614343775139044332009-12-23T09:45:18.516-05:002009-12-23T09:45:18.516-05:00I accept that you believe they would all be dead a...I accept that you believe they would all be dead anyway, but in the film that action /directly/ leads to a chain of events that kills almost the entire squad in a few minutes - it clearly has a huge part to play in the final outcome.<br /><br />With their ammunition, they would have had fewer deaths, the ammunition would not have exploded from being all placed in one bag and then set on fire, and Gormon would not have frozen up because Apone was dead, killed while trying to listen to his rambling nonsense instructions. <br /><br />If that didn't happen, I suspect they'd have lost only a few marines and then made a tactical withdrawal and the whole film would have gone very differently.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26713483046915439382009-12-23T09:30:57.006-05:002009-12-23T09:30:57.006-05:00I didn't mean that it is questionable that the...I didn't mean that it is questionable that the incident with the cooling system happened, I do not, however, believe it is the ONLY reason the aliens gained the upper hand.<br /><br />In other words, even had the Marines had their weapons and gear ready at full use, they still ultimately all would have died.Yog Sothothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02104602393018428099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76585015844744532112009-12-23T09:20:32.005-05:002009-12-23T09:20:32.005-05:00""Actually, no. The marines die because ...""Actually, no. The marines die because they have their ammunition confiscated so as not to rupture the cooling towers and cause a thermonuclear explosion."<br /><br />Questionable."<br /><br />RIPLEY<br />That's not what I mean. Gorman, if your men have to use their weapons in there, they'll rupture the cooling system.<br /><br /> BURKE (realizing)She's right.<br /><br /> GORMAN <br />So.<br /><br /> RIPLEY<br />So...then the fusion containment shuts down.<br /><br /> GORMAN<br />(impatient)So? So?<br /><br /> BURKE<br />We're talking thermonuclear explosion.<br /><br /> GORMAN<br />Shit.(into mike) Apone, collect magazines from everybody. We can't<br /> have any firing in there.<br /><br />The troopers look at each other in dismay.<br /><br /> WIERZBOWSKI<br />Is he fucking crazy?<br /><br /> HUDSON<br />What're we supposed to use,man? Harsh language?<br /><br /> GORMAN<br />(voice over; static) Flame-units only. I want rifles slung.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76403971743278027592009-12-23T09:07:33.721-05:002009-12-23T09:07:33.721-05:00"Actually, no. The marines die because they h..."Actually, no. The marines die because they have their ammunition confiscated so as not to rupture the cooling towers and cause a thermonuclear explosion."<br /><br />Questionable. The Marines are clearly hugely outnumbered by the Aliens (did you see the scene with the automated machine guns in the Director's Cut?), and throughout it is shown that even with the advantage of firearms they are unable to kill aliens in large numbers without taking returning casualties. The aliens are good at getting up close via stealth, and when shot at close range, the acid tends to harm the marines.<br /><br />Ultimately I think the marines were hosed either way.Yog Sothothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02104602393018428099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24060442499502267222009-12-23T09:02:06.609-05:002009-12-23T09:02:06.609-05:00"I cannot imagine how you came to such a conc..."I cannot imagine how you came to such a conclusion about a film in which the military is completely outclassed almost from the outset"<br /><br />Actually, no. The marines die because they have their ammunition confiscated so as not to rupture the cooling towers and cause a thermonuclear explosion.<br /><br />Then, the ammo bag catches fire from the flamethrower after a marine is taken into the wall and explodes, throwing the whole thing into chaos.<br /><br />Then, the inexperienced Gormon, who is in command, talks gibberish and then freezes up, unsure what to do.<br /><br />So: they lose because they have no ammunition, then there is an accidental explosion and then the commanding officer freezes up.Pete Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03438651595079082035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54909661755402309482009-12-23T08:51:20.457-05:002009-12-23T08:51:20.457-05:00Hell, in Aliens we learn that there is nothing a f...<i>Hell, in Aliens we learn that there is nothing a few space marines cannot handle.</i><br />I cannot imagine how you came to such a conclusion about a film in which the military is completely outclassed almost from the outset. Only one of the marines survives, and he's incapacitated. The hive is destroyed, but only by accident. If anything, it's a film about the dangers of military arrogance. Or in other words, Vietnam.<br /><br /><i>If there's something I don't see anywhere in the Alien-universe, it is the prospect of redemption</i><br />I'm not sure of that. There's Bishop in <i>Aliens</i>, for example, the irony being that he's a machine.thekelvingreenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01928260185408072124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-84615774239646567812009-12-23T08:41:38.448-05:002009-12-23T08:41:38.448-05:00"Of course no one in the Alien movies is depi..."Of course no one in the Alien movies is depicted as worshipping The Company. Missed a trick?"<br /><br />Would the worship not ultimately be of money? As far as I can see, the Company represents the soulless, mindless pursuit of wealth and power regardless of human consequences.<br /><br />If the Xenomorphs represent the alien, unknowable, uncontrollable aspects of the Cosmos (and serve as an okay-ish stand in for Cthulhu and his lot), then the Company is like the insane sorcerer who seeks to bend the power of the Old Ones to his will, with all the negative consequences that such folly brings.Yog Sothothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02104602393018428099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83205638455848265732009-12-23T08:36:58.497-05:002009-12-23T08:36:58.497-05:00"Alien 3 was an excellent sequel to Alien but..."Alien 3 was an excellent sequel to Alien but a damn poor one to Alien 2.<br />Stuck on a barely functional refinery with a bunch of sex offender religious converts...sounds pretty horrifying to me, then throw in the Aliens and it actually gets worse."<br /><br />In concept perhaps. In execution it is one of the most staggeringly inept films I have ever seen.Yog Sothothhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02104602393018428099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58883254130421175592009-12-23T08:09:49.348-05:002009-12-23T08:09:49.348-05:00The Company as deity is an interesting notion. I ...The Company as deity is an interesting notion. I was in the flagship Apple store on Regent St, London yesterday and was very struck by its feeling of 'sacred space' - it felt very much like a Temple, complete with supplicants, priests, shrines and altars. The design was very much that of a religious building, with inner and outer temples; in the innermost temple a priest led the faithful (sat on pews) in worship of some new gizmo on the giant screen. <br /><br />Of course no one in the Alien movies is depicted as worshipping The Company. Missed a trick?Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-77302022400973636902009-12-23T07:56:24.954-05:002009-12-23T07:56:24.954-05:00"human beings, which are, at best a means to ..."human beings, which are, at best a means to its own unfathomable ends"<br /><br />Its ends are entirely fathomable - propagation of the species. I thought this was the key to the horror; for the Alien, humans are just hosts for its offspring, exactly like the wasps that lay their eggs in living caterpillars etc. <br /><br />I think what struck me most about Alien was the alien ship and its long-dead pilot, the message being that even a species and civilisation vastly more advanced than our own was still just helpless prey to the Alien predator.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32661811137976291972009-12-23T07:50:23.572-05:002009-12-23T07:50:23.572-05:00Alien 3 was an excellent sequel to Alien but a dam...Alien 3 was an excellent sequel to Alien but a damn poor one to Alien 2.<br />Stuck on a barely functional refinery with a bunch of sex offender religious converts...sounds pretty horrifying to me, then throw in the Aliens and it actually gets worse.JDJarvishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07691101939920824546noreply@blogger.com