tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post672385183014796190..comments2024-03-19T07:56:00.031-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: A Nostalgia ProjectJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66018914430044781112008-12-02T08:08:00.000-05:002008-12-02T08:08:00.000-05:00It may, however be more complicated.Oh, it certain...<I>It may, however be more complicated.</I><BR/><BR/>Oh, it certainly is! There were a lot of complementary influences bubbling to the surface in the late 60s and early 70s and I'd be loath to peg any single one as <I>the</I> driving force behind the appearance of RPGs generally and OD&D specifically. My only point was that I think, given the books and authors Gary had long admitted were the sources of the game, that it's baseline take on fantasy is very "old fashioned" and would have appeared so even to people playing at the beginning in 1974. Gary wasn't chasing the Zeitgeist except to the extent that the Zeitgeist happened to coincidentally coincide with his own preferences in fantasy.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51176444906237527382008-12-01T12:13:00.000-05:002008-12-01T12:13:00.000-05:00Very interesting. The idea that D and D was nosta...Very interesting. The idea that D and D was nostalgic in its earliest forms represents a pretty significant insight into the history of the hobby and into the history of the fantasy genre. It may, however be more complicated.<BR/><BR/>While Gygax was indulging in some nostalgia when he conceived of D and D, many of the older texts that influenced him were in fact enjoying a huge resurgence in popularity at the time that D and D was being conceived. <BR/><BR/>Kellri has already pointed out in an earlier comment that Lord of the Rings only became wildly popular in the US in the 1960s after Bantam released their paperback versions. Also at that time, Howard's Conan tales were enjoying enjoying a huge resurgence in popularity based on the famous Ace paperback reprintings of them. These reprintings, edited by L. Sprague DeCamp and sporting those awesome Frazetta covers, were a significant part of the reason why fantasy became popular. <BR/><BR/>In fact, some would argue that the Bantam versions of Tolkien and the Ace publications of Howard were a huge reason the "Fantasy Literature" as a genre exists at all. It was at this point that "Fantasy" as we know it began to coalesce into a recognizable genre in its own right and distinguish itself from the amorphous mass of SF, horror, and just weird stuff to which it had previously belonged. The narrative history of fantasy, like all historical narratives, was retroactively created from the vantage point of the present, the present in this case being the late 1060s and early 1970s. <BR/><BR/>One could argue that, by creating and popularizing D and D, Gygax was himself participating in and having a huge impact on the shaping of this narrative. There may then be a really cool paradox here. Gygax was being nostalgic for a genre and a literary history that his very nostalgic longings were helping to bring into existence.Ironbeardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18244939365755302731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20143696826486439382008-12-01T02:37:00.000-05:002008-12-01T02:37:00.000-05:00More and more I think there is no one reason for t...More and more I think there is no one reason for the retro movement.<BR/><BR/>Grognardia's reasons seem to be heavily based around a mix of nostalgia, the original pulp influences the game had, and the lack of perceived "corporate" feel to it.<BR/><BR/>Some folks go retro because they enjoy the generally terribly written "house rule/tinker or DIE" way you do OD&D.<BR/><BR/>Others its pure nostalgia.<BR/><BR/>To others its because its inexpensive, and not the power gamer's Braunstein with persistent characters 3-4th is.<BR/><BR/>Me I like it because the rules in Moldvay/Cook, Mentzer, and BECMI are simple, elegant, easy to use, and are compatible with a TON of gaming material out there. I never saw the pulp influence, and to me its actually ALIEN to the way I play fantasy RPGs. I never saw any of this in the game, and even the old editions don't sing this to me. My fantasy influences included the D&D cartoon, He Man, Thundercats, Ultima, Bard's Tale, the Hobbit cartoon, LOTR, the Endless Quest books (and similar books), and The Crystal Shard.<BR/><BR/>There are many reasons and ways to play old school D&D, and damn anyone who says otherwise!Captain Rufushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00296697477771399357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1512459460795526622008-11-29T17:37:00.000-05:002008-11-29T17:37:00.000-05:00I recently started a 1st edition campaign, and I w...I recently started a 1st edition campaign, and I wasn't even aware then that there was all this old school D&D nostalgia. I'm so glad I accidentally stumbled into a movement! God bless weird, pulp fantasy. <BR/><BR/>Playing D&D as a kid got me into all the fantasy stuff I would later love. With two older brothers who were into sports, I might never have experience a lot of that, but luckily they also had read The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and I got my hands on those old copies. After I discovered D&D, I munched-up all those great old pulp novels: Conan, John Carter, Faf and the Mouser. My dad had read Zorro and Tarzan to me as a kid, so I was already into Marvel Comics type heroes - and pulp fantasy stories were an easy sell to me because of that. <BR/><BR/>I remember every time there was a weird, old school D&D scene in a novel, I would get this great thrill. Like when Conan went into city ruins, and got chased around by a gigantic slug. Or when John Carter spied the field full of weird-ass plantment hopping around. I couldn't wait to do my own versions of those scenes in my games (and I did.)Kevin Machttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14122665488285424578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56626457447312659822008-11-28T00:25:00.000-05:002008-11-28T00:25:00.000-05:00You raise some interesting points. I suspect ther...You raise some interesting points. I suspect there is more than just little truth behind nostalgia. There was something special in the early days, that is similar to an explorer landing on a foreign shore and settling out to conquer the unknown. The feeling of unknown has faded quite a bit now, as most of us can site verse and page of the core books. I think that takes away a bit of the feeling that we were on a special journey in the early days. Going back the old rules feels like an attempt to journey back. Now I am in full agreement that the new rules have a totally different feel to me, and I am not sure that is what I am looking for. It is interesting to note that when I GM for my son, using the C&C rules, I see a bit of what was special in the early days. He is just starting his adventure, while I am well along in mine.Mr Baronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07502432352346301026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20885644028326629822008-11-27T14:27:00.000-05:002008-11-27T14:27:00.000-05:00I always thought, that fantasy, especially sword a...I always thought, that fantasy, especially sword and sorcery, is fairy tales for adults... So there is a nostalgia element, but it's not for someone's teenage years, but the time of bedtime stories, and not a special 10-20 year literary period, but an ancient influence, from which the fantasy authors draw their ideas. I, at least, found the fairy tales and the arabian night stories (children's version) of my early childhood in the fantasy literature of my early teenage years and the D&D gaming of my late teenage years etc., and I'm always looking for that in art or gaming.<BR/><BR/>At the time, that I started gaming, in high school, it was already an escape from reality, I feel nostalgic about D&D, but not, for example for my school, and the atmosphere of it... And what is good in literature, or movies, or art, or games, take me back to a much much younger age.Bardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06020447449864895480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-29646439445983663162008-11-27T10:36:00.000-05:002008-11-27T10:36:00.000-05:00A lot of the literary influences on D&D were a...A lot of the literary influences on D&D were authors who had enjoyed a resurgence in the late-60s and early 70s as their novels were first printed in mass-marker paperbacks. Even Tolkien, which had been out in expensive hardback by Houghton Mifflin, only really caught on in the US with the paperback edition. REH, Lovecraft, CAS, Merritt etc. were all but forgotten until the paperback reprints made them 'household' names. <BR/><BR/>I think this resurgence more than any one author, was the central stylistic influence on D&D. In a rather short period Midwesterners, like Gygax, went from having little to no access to fantasy lit to having a smorgasbord of classics for sale in the corner drugstore. D&D's patchwork of influences is a reflection of that great eclectic moment before fantasy settled down into a genre rut.Kellrihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18149255116106626419noreply@blogger.com