tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post7926218885290544780..comments2024-03-29T07:58:31.156-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: ShockingJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23193672560632386622011-05-21T00:01:43.488-04:002011-05-21T00:01:43.488-04:00Yay, comments back here!Yay, comments back here!Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36729846906919558502011-05-16T13:44:36.460-04:002011-05-16T13:44:36.460-04:00I thought this was a game when I first saw the tit...I <a href="http://monstersandmanuals.blogspot.com/2011/05/ass-goblins-of-auschwitz.html" rel="nofollow">thought this was a game</a> when I first saw the title, and thought of the previous discussion here... which I guess blogger has deleted.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41450662866089056112011-05-15T15:58:49.998-04:002011-05-15T15:58:49.998-04:00I have to think that Raggi's music preferences...<i>I have to think that Raggi's music preferences heavily inform his art preferences.</i><br /><br>That makes a great deal of sense and undoubtedly explains the lack of resonance the artwork has for me.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48384961414260679252011-05-15T13:05:48.439-04:002011-05-15T13:05:48.439-04:00I was expecting to see something as shocking as Bi...I was expecting to see something as shocking as Bisley's illustrations for Milton's Paradise Lost.migellitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17106614212764056058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11103005470922922212011-05-14T07:04:13.900-04:002011-05-14T07:04:13.900-04:00^^^ You mean like that embarrassing as hell ad ca...^^^ You mean like that embarrassing as hell ad campaign for the video game Dead Space 2? <br /><br />"YOUR MOM WILL HATE IT".<br /><br />I'll be honest. I find most of the pulp/comic/rpg T&A to be silly and ridiculous in most cases.<br /><br />Its rarely genuinely sexy, and normally just sad, embarrassing, and ruins the feel of whatever world is trying to be created.<br /><br />I'm doing a Lets Play series on a mostly forgotten D&D video game and one of my first comments was how it was nice the cover had a female character dressed sensibly.<br /><br />Same goes for blood and gore. Most of the time its crap like the Saw series or just ridiculous amounts of grue that don't terrify or horrify.<br /><br />When GWAR does it you kind of get the idea they know its childish and stupid, something an 11-17 year old boy would find awesome.<br /><br />When its in movies or hobby games or videogames all the blood n boobs usually just look sad, and fail to do anything at all.<br /><br />(To give an example of a good sexy. The manga series Black Lagoon which is about a group of amoral mercenaries/cargo haulers in Southeast Asia. Things blow up and people swear and its all great badass fun thats bad for you and not intelligent at all ala our favorite 80s action movies. But 2 of the leads are being escorted out of a situation in the back of a cop car. There is some tension between the two. They are sitting near each other and one lights a cigarette off of the other's while its still in her mouth. (Or vice versa.) Just their faces and a bit of the car. Hot as hell. No T&A whatsoever yet sexy as all get out.)<br /><br />For the Gore just look at the original Halloween. Not a lot of blood at all yet scary as sin. Michael Myers is terrifying to me in the way most of the 80s-now killers just aren't. The music, the mood, the way he moved and killed. No need for fountains of blood or flying body parts.<br /><br />The sexiest stuff and the scariest things are done by people who know mood and feel. And very rarely actually SHOW much at all. <br /><br />They are skilled enough so they don't have to.Captain Rufushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00296697477771399357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78609510199097317242011-05-13T21:16:30.153-04:002011-05-13T21:16:30.153-04:00Lame art for guys insecure about playing RPGs. He ...Lame art for guys insecure about playing RPGs. He might as well add a banner on the cover, "Makes you younger and cooler - and your wife will hate it!"Chainsawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13795026553408942707noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1319711568277490902011-05-13T18:56:08.742-04:002011-05-13T18:56:08.742-04:00The naked ladies are back! Hurray! :)The naked ladies are back! Hurray! :)Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173759805310975320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-31202156234244664482011-05-12T15:09:29.860-04:002011-05-12T15:09:29.860-04:00I think the art in the new LotFP does a fine job o...I think the art in the new LotFP does a fine job of supporting the text in it's job of conveying what the game is about. Perhaps it was hyped a bit much, but either way, the art is <i>good</i>, at least in my opinion.Jeremy Deramhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13166744272459044563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17362851977923915752011-05-12T13:35:40.253-04:002011-05-12T13:35:40.253-04:00Saladin Ahmed -- The name of your RPG should, of c...Saladin Ahmed -- The name of your RPG should, of course, be...<br /><br /><b><i>JIHAD!</i></b><br /><br />With the obvious tagline...<br /><br /><b><i>Death to America!</i></b>https://www.blogger.com/profile/14398295844409607075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81969337165037174452011-05-12T12:40:05.113-04:002011-05-12T12:40:05.113-04:00I don't recall consciously thinking that I was...I don't recall consciously thinking that I was being subversive in playing D&D (not least b/c my dad thoroughly endorsed my interest in the hobby). I *do* recall getting an adolescent kick of of the bare-tittied succubus illustration in MM1 and the topless Egyptian goddesses in Deities and Demigods... I also remember gettingg a similar immature kick out of the gruesome critical hit tables in Rolemaster's Arms Law/Claw Law.<br /><br />@ Anarchist - excellent idea, I going to <br /><br />1) Publish an RPG with my name prominently displayed on the cover.<br />2) Incite moral panic.<br />3)????<br />4) Profit!Saladin Ahmedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17052841870041946321noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75469775736767002022011-05-12T02:09:02.148-04:002011-05-12T02:09:02.148-04:00You said: "...there were folks who took serio...You said: "...there were folks who took seriously the notion that D&D had an adverse affect on young minds"<br />I also heard that growing up in reference to comic books an television...<br /><br />DaveLDaveLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01837748113498012191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47196313210974488622011-05-12T01:52:16.280-04:002011-05-12T01:52:16.280-04:00I'm wistfully recalling Montreal by Night...I'm wistfully recalling <i>Montreal by Night</i>...huthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16502682297320819595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63047843860192427482011-05-12T00:04:35.524-04:002011-05-12T00:04:35.524-04:00You'd probably have more luck generating a mor...You'd probably have more luck generating a moral panic by making people think it's promoting Islam.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30377293111752391912011-05-11T22:03:39.416-04:002011-05-11T22:03:39.416-04:00The art on heavy metal album covers is light-years...The art on heavy metal album covers is light-years more shocking than anything pubished under the banner of mainstream rpg companies. Of course, I remember more skulls and death in heavy metal than nakedness, but it wasn't my top musical genre, so my experience with heavy metal is pretty limited. <br /><br />I have to think that Raggi's music preferences heavily inform his art preferences.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11344904499959612622011-05-11T22:02:25.694-04:002011-05-11T22:02:25.694-04:00For some reason I thought of this: http://xkcd.com...For some reason I thought of this: <a href="http://xkcd.com/883/" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/883/</a>Greyhawk Grognardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13929743865700766901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22918965317423701762011-05-11T21:41:24.973-04:002011-05-11T21:41:24.973-04:00Reading Jim Raggi's blog, it seems that some o...Reading Jim Raggi's blog, it seems that some of the 'extreme' artists are women.<br /><br />Hell, Aino, the artist for his original Creature Generator was also the cover model.Osskorreihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14408780872015323307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41708143805564381832011-05-11T20:33:33.075-04:002011-05-11T20:33:33.075-04:00Changed my mind about that link. :)
I'd like ...Changed my mind about that link. :)<br /><br /><em>I'd like to hear what some women think of the topic in general but they seem to be...hard to find in these circles.</em><br /><br />Not that hard to find. If any of them want to chime in on the discussion I'm sure they will.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36008784444321718392011-05-11T20:29:07.686-04:002011-05-11T20:29:07.686-04:00Aw, dammit, Aos beat me to it - I was going to poi...Aw, dammit, Aos beat me to it - I was going to point out the bonda- *ahem*, Brundidge going on in the illos. 90 years ago you could put stuff on the cover of a magazine that you could hardly get on a men's magazine cover now. Which is all the stranger considering the proliferation of boobies in old D&D stuff - and no, it wasn't faddish or trangressive, it was just *there*. Nobody fretted about the topless amazons in OD&D or Arduin, or the "Orgies, Inc." article back in Dragon (i think) #9, or the cover of Eldritch Wizardry (also done by a woman, whatever that may imply). Nobody thought Loviatar or Bast airing their balconies (as it were) was going to cause the downfall of civilization. <br />Of course, in the particularly weird culture we have, you can still print the blood & gore but not the boobies. 'Cause violent death, that's one thing, but nippleage is just beyond the pale. No, I don't understand it, either.Pere Ubuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03553973043509436168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-24449200658162782142011-05-11T20:23:59.185-04:002011-05-11T20:23:59.185-04:00Sorry for the double post.
It seems to me that wo...Sorry for the double post. <br />It seems to me that women are as likely to be all over the road about this stuff as men. I have male friends who complain about all the naked dick in Corben, whereas I don't mind it at all.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145284080419502886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-46681979527059110822011-05-11T20:09:47.931-04:002011-05-11T20:09:47.931-04:00Correction: Brundage.Correction: Brundage.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145284080419502886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-89875244603674014782011-05-11T20:06:03.772-04:002011-05-11T20:06:03.772-04:00FYI: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the artist w...FYI: Correct me if I'm wrong, but the artist who created the covers in this post was a woman, Margaret Brundidge.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145284080419502886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-4957128725096480752011-05-11T19:29:05.490-04:002011-05-11T19:29:05.490-04:00You know who always found old school D&D art a...You know who always found old school D&D art and the kind of covers posted in this article replusive? Just about ever girl our group tried to introduce to RPGs or fantasy writing. <br /><br />Yeah turns out they don't appreciate the nips and blood stuff too much. I'd like to hear what some women think of the topic in general but they seem to be...hard to find in these circles. :)cibethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16815626047653230637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33335447673620464152011-05-11T18:38:24.977-04:002011-05-11T18:38:24.977-04:00I remember when I was a teenager not wanting my mo...I remember when I was a teenager not wanting my mom to see the nipples on the succubus in my D&D books, not because that would have caused her to forbid them, but because she was my mom and it would have been embarassing for me to have my mom know that I had books with lowbrow drawings of naked women in them.<br />That said, 'nudes' themselves were not verboten in our house when I was growing up (my parents owned a lot of art books that included some material that some might consider racy). But part of what I did enjoy as a youngster was the sense that not all adults would have approved of some of the illustrations and content in D&D... and our teenage sessions did feature some pretty 'strong' content (including regular beheadings, disembowelings, skinned alive, etc.) which would have made some of my more puritanically minded teachers dissaprove --- but that was probably reflective of our teenage sensibilities at the time. SImultaneously, we were stealing "Heavy Metal" and "Playboy" magazines and stashing those away for our private inspection and going to see whatever scary movies we could. After we saw "Alien," monsters bursting out of the chests of unfortunate player characters were almost a common event in our games. But copies of "The Lives of the Saints" detailed (and even illustrated) saints getting shot with arrows, having their eyes gouged out, getting crucified upside down, etc., so, as a catholic boy the violent and bloody nature of history was known to us.<br />Like Geoffrey, I don't mistake sexual or disturbing content in art or fiction as harmful since I believe that reasonable people can tell the difference and, if there are unreasonable people who become unhinged at the sight of some blood or a nipple then they are probably as likely to be inspired to go on a rampage by a rerun of "The Cosby Show" as by any 'strong' content in a picture.<br />There is content in art books and museums that is at least or more shocking than anything in the AD&D books --- like Caravaggio's "Judith Beheading Holofernes." And, if you know the story behind the picture, it gets even better.Stefan Poaghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192911890556534923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39399414550425365042011-05-11T18:27:57.643-04:002011-05-11T18:27:57.643-04:00"The art from the old Arduin Grimoire was som..."The art from the old Arduin Grimoire was some of my favorite from back in the day... it was brutal and wild and showed nudity... just like the issues of Heavy Metal I was reading at the time. I wasn't so much seeking those things out as escaping the environments where they were absent... to my mind they represented adventure, a road sign to somewhere-else."<br /><br />Knobgobbler, I couldn't have said it better myself - it's for this very same reason that I found the pages of White Dwarf more appealing than Dragon at the time.maxamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17143803116262064891noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48134680378104039752011-05-11T18:21:52.466-04:002011-05-11T18:21:52.466-04:00James, I'm kinda guessing you're also allu...<i>James, I'm kinda guessing you're also alluding to Ron Edward's essay on the matter? Or not?</i><br /><br>Not specifically, though it was probably in the back of my brain. I was thinking more about some of the discussions that occurred both in its aftermath and during <i>L'Affaire Carcosa</i>.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.com