tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post811959117861413921..comments2024-03-19T05:48:34.142-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Thoughts on the D&D/AD&D Chronology (Part I)James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1700618600289062352009-09-14T13:27:37.259-04:002009-09-14T13:27:37.259-04:00James, are planning to look at any of these and of...<i>James, are planning to look at any of these and of Imagine magazine?</i><br /><br>I wrote about module U1 some months ago, but none of the others as yet. And I am sorry to say I've never seen a single copy of <i>Imagine</i> to this day -- a deep regret of mine.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62557360492065715762009-09-12T20:57:24.219-04:002009-09-12T20:57:24.219-04:00@Pookie
The UK series (Saltmarsh, et al) was grea...@Pookie<br /><br />The UK series (Saltmarsh, et al) was great. UK 1 is still a favorite. And I have photocopies of articles from Imagine. I wish I had the magazines themselves.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-32312992196361192212009-09-12T20:13:28.956-04:002009-09-12T20:13:28.956-04:001981 also happened to see the publication of the f...1981 also happened to see the publication of the first modules from TSR-UK. James, are planning to look at any of these and of <i>Imagine</i> magazine?pookiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09521454715536568847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73792322650122095772009-09-11T13:11:52.237-04:002009-09-11T13:11:52.237-04:00"I suspect there are other mechanism/intentio..."I suspect there are other mechanism/intention conflicts in D&D's setting/sourcebook history, which might be worth writing about at greater length (with particular attention to cross-pollination between D&D and other, more productive threads in RPG history)."<br /><br />If you can point the way to your blog, i'd be interested in reading your essay on the subject.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3791384509947183952009-09-11T08:02:01.462-04:002009-09-11T08:02:01.462-04:00I think that one of the best, and most overlooked ...I think that one of the best, and most overlooked features of the D&D are the Treasure Type tables at the back of the MM, and the unguarded treasure charts in the basic/expert booklets. That, along with the Monster and Spell lists defines AD&D, when compared with the other fantasy RPGs of the time. Think about it, TSR copyrighter all of the typical fantasy monsters, and systems like Tunnels and Trolls and Runequest had to IMPROVISE. <br /><br />With regards to horror moddules. I think that the AD&D was trying to become all things to all people in order to compete with the other RPGs covering other types of fantasy.Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-44888830667891132142009-09-10T23:48:33.636-04:002009-09-10T23:48:33.636-04:00Just to scamper off on a tangent for a moment, whi...<em>Just to scamper off on a tangent for a moment, while Ravenloft was weakened (in my opinion) by being a typical TSR "pastiche" setting, it had some excellent individual modules. I recall one in particular about a puppet shop that pushed more than a few of my creep-factor buttons.</em><br /><br />I suspect (without doing any research on this score) that gestures toward pure horror gaming were important in the evolution of D&D - as much as anything, material like I6 illuminates the limitations of the D&D combat/action model for certain kinds of storytelling, and the usefulness of mechanics that treat storytelling and narrative control as first-order, rules-governed concerns. D&D is naturally a horror game, to a limited extent, but it's always had adventure-game rules. I suspect there are other mechanism/intention conflicts in D&D's setting/sourcebook history, which might be worth writing about at greater length (with particular attention to cross-pollination between D&D and other, more productive threads in RPG history).Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12215651059418273961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-16836503810258400382009-09-10T19:03:03.545-04:002009-09-10T19:03:03.545-04:00"I also thinK Ravenloft, despite what I think..."I also thinK Ravenloft, despite what I think about the weird horror setting it spawned, it a site based adventure with some mystery elements."<br /><br />Just to scamper off on a tangent for a moment, while Ravenloft was weakened (in my opinion) by being a typical TSR "pastiche" setting, it had some excellent individual modules. I recall one in particular about a puppet shop that pushed more than a few of my creep-factor buttons.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41711601580147393892009-09-10T17:36:12.928-04:002009-09-10T17:36:12.928-04:00I never really got the "Tracy Hickman was the...I never really got the "Tracy Hickman was the future" of modules vibe. <br /><br />This is usually accompanied by a strong "Tracy Hickman destroyed the D&D module", which isn't what I think you're doing here James, but it is interesting to me to see him so often used to represent "new wave" D&D module design.<br /><br />Yes, his Dragonlance modules are rail-roady, and yes they have plot, but many of them are also site-based, even dungeon crawls. <br /><br />I also thinK Ravenloft, despite what I think about the weird horror setting it spawned, it a site based adventure with some mystery elements.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05334071256551332865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75516333960982696462009-09-10T12:09:36.395-04:002009-09-10T12:09:36.395-04:00[i]Granted, I do think the MM frequently provides ...[i]Granted, I do think the MM frequently provides too much information for my tastes, but I suspect I'm in the minority on this score.[/i]<br /><br />No, I think that your observation is quite correct but it is tainted with later influences. The secret would have been to mix a standard description with miminal stats then allow for a whole raft of ecology articles to fill the void. Afterall, think about it, if they did not describe the monster in depth - all Vampires would resemble Hammer films renditions rather than any other traditions...the description is what made the monster the monster not merely a pale reflection of some sort excuse for the human condition.<br /><br />I like how you also note...<br />[i]Modules have obviously become a mainstay for TSR, which releases nine of them this year. Again, they're a varied lot with a variety of authors, among them Tracy Hickman, whose Pharaoh, while still rooted in many aspects of the old school, points the way to the future of both module design and D&D itself. [/i]<br /><br />but note there are people like myself who only came into gaming that year therefore our conceptions of old school is still weeded within that multiverse of choice. Modules did not define a campaign (like Dragonlance attempted) but paralled a campaign for younger gamers like myself. We even created a name for it...intra-Campaign material whereby we adapted modules to an ever wider story of our PCs. Some people liked it (those more who were inclined to what would become storytellers) and others did not (those who preferred Hack & Slash). So never equate the rise of the post-1982 module as the death of the old school, rather, it was an enhancement and innovation that helped diffuse old school gaming to a larger audience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43977299130794164382009-09-10T11:44:20.601-04:002009-09-10T11:44:20.601-04:00"...along with a handful of modules, most of ...<i>"...along with a handful of modules, most of which have their origins in convention play, a phenomenon that becomes ever more important to the way the game is designed."</i><br /><br />I think this is a fascinating topic. I like to think about an alternate timeline where this wasn't the source of so many adventure modules. How would the game evolved where instead the adventure modules were instead structured more like their home campaigns?P_Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.com