tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post8367234508901211404..comments2024-03-19T07:56:00.031-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Pulp Fantasy Library: Under the Green StarJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38184276256184027582009-12-30T22:43:39.879-05:002009-12-30T22:43:39.879-05:00I enjoy Carter a great deal. I first found him vi...I enjoy Carter a great deal. I first found him via Jandar of Callisto once I finished the Barsoom books, which they are a pastiche of.<br /><br />On the RAH issue, I don't hold him in quite the contempt many do and consider his crimes much less the deCamp. One, unlike deCamp who I believe was merely about money, Carter's career makes it clear Carter's work is about the love of the genre, as you point out. For that I'm willing to forgive his Conan work as being less money grubbing and more fanboy getting paid.Pulp Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486803457210325703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10062614178412063692009-12-30T14:34:00.127-05:002009-12-30T14:34:00.127-05:00@irbyz: Well, having lived a majority of my life i...@irbyz: Well, having lived a majority of my life in Northern Idaho (with a few escape attempts ranging all over the world as an ESL teacher or just rambling around the US) at an early age one really couldn't be too picky with their literature. I read voraciously (and still do) and I realize that re-reading some of these stories how different they were, back then it just devoured Conan stories as I found them, now I appreciate REH and I do applaud some of the pastiches. Some.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-5186654276561527422009-12-29T23:40:04.089-05:002009-12-29T23:40:04.089-05:00> ancientvaults wrote:
> I am even in the mi...> ancientvaults wrote:<br />> I am even in the minority and I can handle some of his Conan pastiches.<br /><br />Heck, some people even /love/ those pastiches; e.g. http://www.sfsite.com/10b/cl138.htm<br />*ducks* ;)irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63279665266606571652009-12-29T21:40:12.388-05:002009-12-29T21:40:12.388-05:00Having recently finished reading the Barbarians of...Having recently finished reading the Barbarians of Lemuria RPG, i'm interested in checking out some of Lin Carter's Lemuria tales. Thanks for posting this book review!Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-47173661255567352722009-12-29T20:11:39.530-05:002009-12-29T20:11:39.530-05:00I remember (albeit hazily) reading this when I was...I remember (albeit hazily) reading this when I was about 12 in the Junior High School library. I also remember thinking, "What the Hell is going on here?". Years later I read it again and had much more appreciation for Carter's work. I am even in the minority and I can handle some of his Conan pastiches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58486593303586406232009-12-29T19:36:52.038-05:002009-12-29T19:36:52.038-05:00"...And no series goes downhill further than ..."...And no series goes downhill further than the World's End series..."<br /><br />Matthew, that may be the most offensive thing I have ever read in my life...my blood is boiling with nerd-rage right now!! ;)Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10884401206802336531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-23125659442653217242009-12-29T15:13:35.963-05:002009-12-29T15:13:35.963-05:00@irbyz--I assume that Carter kept at series even w...@irbyz--I assume that Carter kept at series even when he lost interest because it was easier to see as sequel. And it's hard to find too much fault with him, since he was writing to eat. But still, some bad, bad books resulted.<br /><br />That said, books like "Giant of World's End" and "The Wizard of Zao" are fine books.Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36467669663259333442009-12-29T07:32:49.778-05:002009-12-29T07:32:49.778-05:00I just saw the movie 'Avatar' today. It ha...I just saw the movie 'Avatar' today. It has a very similar premise - albeit there's a lot more going on in the movie than just that.anarchisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05546197561922726279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17379131909294607402009-12-29T00:49:19.120-05:002009-12-29T00:49:19.120-05:00> Matthew Slepin wrote:
> I'm another Ca...> Matthew Slepin wrote:<br />> I'm another Carter fan, even though I am critical of a lot of his work. In general, I think the prolonged series was a fatal weakness in him--however promising they begin, they tend to end with a whimper. <br /><br />Yes; that's a stronger - and less frequently made - point of criticism of Lin than the more usual "pastiche"/"derivative"/"damaging legacy" ones, IMHO.<br />Whether that was through running out of inspiration, jumping (back) onto other projects ( http://www.erbzine.com/mag17/1717.html ) or for other reasons, it is more than slightly annoying in many cases...<br />(On the minor plus side, cutting a series short /is/ still a preferable approach to feeling obliged to churn out the rest of your 9,000 page trilogy of trilogies for financial reasons or "to keep the fans happy" and leaving them wanting 7,500 pages of their lives back).<br /><br />In the case of the World's End series, I'm /very/ glad that he wrote the end first since that gives some sense of "completion" to add to the free-rolling inspired fun, genuinely neat ideas and general loopiness of the "start" of the series (starting slap-bang on that 1974 turning point in a RPG context). The gaping hole in the "middle" at least left ample space in which to create, in a quieter corner of Gondwane whilst hoping in vain for the rest to appear...irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71358073224625437022009-12-29T00:16:45.349-05:002009-12-29T00:16:45.349-05:00> Yet, I can't deny that I enjoyed this boo...> Yet, I can't deny that I enjoyed this book in spite of it all. Or perhaps it was because of all of its failings that I liked it. There's something very primal about this book. There's a reckless spirit of childish fun that I found infectious, even as my adult mind frequently reeled at its lack of originality.<br /><br />Disengage brain and enjoy, eh: where are those "original stories" after all?<br /><br />"Pastiche" is an interesting word to use since ERB's Barsoom could easily be said to be a pastiche of Lowell's Mars and Gustavus Pope's /pre/-pulp Journey to Mars (1894) which is finally back in print again (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=FI-0JwuS8ZUC) (http://www.challzine.net/23/23mars.html / http://www.erbzine.com/mag14/1405.html , etc.).<br /><br />Have to agree with your gaming comment, of course, since I had several decades worth of campaign setting inspiration from one of Lin's series. "Pastiche", of course... and science fantasy, too ;)<br /><br />> This individual, who is never identified by his Earth name, is wealthy but crippled. His ability to send his spirit to a place -- learned at a Tibetan monastery, naturally -- is a great boon to him, as his physical impediments on this planet need not limit him on another. This is a common conceit in sword-and-planet tales: the protagonist's "second chance" to overcome some handicap<br /><br />*g* I thought for a moment you were going to make passing reference to a certain current movie (Sir Bela on Jorune? ;) at that point. :)<br /><br />Good call on the review, James, and looking forward to the next couched apology for liking Lin's writings. ;)<br />*<br />With regards to REH: I'm pretty sure it's safe to say his work will survive Lin's over-enthusiastic fannishness and that many, many people would not have come around to REH's "true legacy" without having first approached that via Carter.irbyzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10193584357850337816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85880516334162838802009-12-28T22:21:58.156-05:002009-12-28T22:21:58.156-05:00Good review as always James!
Although they aren&#...Good review as always James!<br /><br />Although they aren't my cup of tea, it's hard for me to hold the Conan pastiches against Lin Carter, or DeCamp, or even Roy Thomas.<br /><br />They got offered something most of us can only dream: writing Conan.<br /><br />Of course they took it, and of course they weren't as good at it as Howard.<br /><br />But I can't begrudge them grabbing that brass ring. I sure would have.Chuckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05334071256551332865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38582954083459058602009-12-28T20:29:15.594-05:002009-12-28T20:29:15.594-05:00I'm another Carter fan, even though I am criti...I'm another Carter fan, even though I am critical of a lot of his work. In general, I think the prolonged series was a fatal weakness in him--however promising they begin, they tend to end with a whimper. <br /><br />In this series, for example, I really enjoyed the first two books. The second one, in fact, has some great stuff about the dead city of towers and the science-wizards inhabiting them. But it gets a lot less inspired as it goes on and the wheels of the narrative become so obvious.<br /><br />And no series goes downhill further than the World's End series. Actually, you can usually just assume that if pirates show up in a Carter book, he's lost his inspiration.Matthew Slepinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04056247825064943944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-28774220903644492752009-12-28T16:33:23.228-05:002009-12-28T16:33:23.228-05:00Under a Green Star was my exposure to Burroughs st...Under a Green Star was my exposure to Burroughs style fiction. My memory of it is really fond, but I read the series when I was 11. I wonder if reading it now would destroy my pleasant impression.pydannyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00481523876497446983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27362894511076896992009-12-28T13:21:37.979-05:002009-12-28T13:21:37.979-05:00What I find compelling about Carter's work is ...What I find compelling about Carter's work is more of the ideas than the execution. He conceived his "Lemuria" tales as combining the best of Burroughs and Howard, which is pretty cool.<br /><br />He also wrote novels (the Man Who Loved Mars, and others) in Brackett/Moore pastiche Mars, one of the few authors (I can only think of one Moorcock short-story) to catch on to that evoke setting.Treyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647628467658839351noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74752963903332463802009-12-28T11:14:35.465-05:002009-12-28T11:14:35.465-05:00"It's a conceit younger people might firs..."It's a conceit younger people might first have encountered in Stephen Donaldson's various Thomas Covenant novels, but it has deep roots in this sub-genre of pulp fantasy."<br /><br />Huzzah, I'm a younger person for the day. :)Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2655949179403735742009-12-28T10:29:03.687-05:002009-12-28T10:29:03.687-05:00I'm actually a fan of Lin Carter. I'm not...I'm actually a fan of Lin Carter. I'm not afraid to admit it. Sure his stuff is derivative and he wrote several pastiches (even Phillip Jose Farmer wrote Burroughs pastiches) but his writing is enjoyable.Chad Thorsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15084711824869449643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48309841977867314982009-12-28T10:03:49.594-05:002009-12-28T10:03:49.594-05:00I've never read this one. Nice review, James.
...I've never read this one. Nice review, James.<br /><br />No Carter protagonist is as unfortunately named as poor Thongor. He sounds like a barbarian underwear merchant.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285645317925993821noreply@blogger.com