tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post845440418266192147..comments2024-03-28T06:20:47.668-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Stone-Cold KillersJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42982604383627424182011-04-30T17:51:30.848-04:002011-04-30T17:51:30.848-04:00"Trampier drew an image that predates a good ...<b><i>"Trampier drew an image that predates a good twenty five years the idea of using cute animal like humanoids in a gritty war setting like they're doing with the magna series Cat Shit One."</i>--crowking</b><br /><br />I was wondering if anybody would mention Cat Shit One. It certainly demonstrates how armed, militaristic, anthropomorphic rabbits can be taken <i>very</i> seriously.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14398295844409607075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54570373743595758532011-04-27T10:01:30.672-04:002011-04-27T10:01:30.672-04:00Hoops always scared the crap out of our group, and...Hoops always scared the crap out of our group, and I admit that the Trampier drawing had something to do with it. I look at those Hoops and I just know that they are going to emotionlessly f*** you up. The fact that they were damn tough only made things worse. In fact, later edition's attempts to make them look more 'badass' only served to make them more ridiculous, in my opinion.Cord the Seekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15768966473685556824noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74975018565840623022011-04-27T01:29:48.635-04:002011-04-27T01:29:48.635-04:00Despite my general dislike of Elmore's artwork...<i>Despite my general dislike of Elmore's artwork, I think he's quite good as a SF artist, as I said in this post about a year ago.</i><br /><br />Gamma World really straddles the line between fantasy and sci-fi, but I get your point.Thomas Denmarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06135075012362548876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61610981835302747892011-04-26T21:43:17.020-04:002011-04-26T21:43:17.020-04:00I read Watership Down for the first time just a fe...I read <i>Watership Down</i> for the first time just a few months ago. As others have said above, it's a transformative book: you will never look at rabbits the same way again, and indeed, it filled me with the desire to be able to explore the world sketched so vividly in the book.<br /><br />I really do now understand why so many early fantasy RPGs featured at least a nod to the novel (Bunnies and Burrows, obviously, but also the "Bunrab" race from Swordbearer and the Hoops from GW). It's one of a few English novels from the mid-20th century (e.g. Once and Future King, The Hobbit) that manages to vividly create a fantastic version of pastoral England that has (for better or worse) come to serve as the baseline setting for "vanilla fantasy".Picadorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01244353406711565712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81906272888967483792011-04-26T18:52:30.649-04:002011-04-26T18:52:30.649-04:00The picture is funny with some very dark undertone...The picture is funny with some very dark undertones which is prevalent in all of Trampiers work. Case in point the Hoop with the carbine who's looking at the viewer as if he's going to fire a round into you at any moment. But even more brilliant is how Trampier drew an image that predates a good twenty five years the idea of using cute animal like humanoids in a gritty war setting like they're doing with the magna series Cat Shit One. Take a look..<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wncS6tO59Mcrowkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-76610997683409554962011-04-26T15:15:07.290-04:002011-04-26T15:15:07.290-04:00Anthony mocks the idea of giant bunnies with assau...Anthony mocks the idea of giant bunnies with assault rifles, but I think Specters of the Dawn, by S. Andrew Swan, is an excellent example of a hard science fiction book where giant bunnies with assault rifles (designed to fight in South American civil wars) is put forth successfully entirely seriously without a shade of humor.Prosfilaeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08567819936724569257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63560336339087289572011-04-26T14:46:49.879-04:002011-04-26T14:46:49.879-04:00GW 1e was not he first game I played, but it was t...GW 1e was not he first game I played, but it was the first game I purchased. I did so not long after reading <i>Watership Down</i> for the first time. I had no problem taking the hoops seriously, and my longest running character in GW was a giant black mutated rabbit.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145284080419502886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2973770745221721472011-04-26T14:20:28.245-04:002011-04-26T14:20:28.245-04:00It doesn't help that in later vesions they ref...<i>It doesn't help that in later vesions they refer to Hoops as 'Floppsies' </i><br /><br />Really? Um... really? I'm so glad I've never ventured beyond 1st ed., then.metamorphosissigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163514061779555557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2581375057552747672011-04-26T14:13:10.655-04:002011-04-26T14:13:10.655-04:00I grew up watching Hammer Horror & 50's Ru...I grew up watching Hammer Horror & 50's Rubber-Monster Movies so at 15, I was primed to get the duelity of the Hoops as dangerous joke. you laugh and then look again at their stats & blurp; Eh! they are really a threat 15HD in squads of 1 to 20, telepathy/mass mind and turn metal to rubber! Oh and they like Tech, Guns & Artifacts. This was gold for the Gamemaster!<br /><br />I can understand people not getting then & now.<br /><br />It doesn't help that in later vesions they refer to Hoops as 'Floppsies'O'Flux aka SteveEGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07505599780288759141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62902953751971925372011-04-26T13:23:13.981-04:002011-04-26T13:23:13.981-04:00James, do you know if anyone has done a conversion...James, do you know if anyone has done a conversion for doing the classic Gamma World beasties for Mutant Future?Lead Addicthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08643491376746930583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66364146090376587752011-04-26T12:19:24.787-04:002011-04-26T12:19:24.787-04:00@ Herb
I was more having a knee-jerk reaction to ...@ Herb<br /><br />I was more having a knee-jerk reaction to defend MST3k, the last few seasons of which I deeply love. However, I do think you have a point on their detrimental effect on liking those old sorts of movies. I've come to think of them as more mean spirited than I used to.<br /><br />As a fellow Rocky Horror fan (in the sense of actually liking the movie) I completely see your point, and in ruminating on it I think I understand Gamma World much better now.<br /><br />Weird huh?Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745062840676790649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-91876451802676107612011-04-26T11:41:49.986-04:002011-04-26T11:41:49.986-04:00I don't know about that. I find MST3k works be...<i>I don't know about that. I find MST3k works best when they're mocking a movie I would watch on my own anyway. If it's too terrible I couldn't watch it at all. </i><br /><br />I think you missed my point. I said the only way they're enjoyed, not one way. Many, many people anymore can only find enjoyment in such material in that ironic manner (I actually had a player say as much at my table a few weeks ago). I'm not a fan of MST3K in general, never have been, but as a long time Rocky Horror fan I enjoy the movie in and of itself which makes the mocking all that much more fun.<br /><br />If you can operate on both levels then Hoops are something you can react to as a threat. If you only operate on the ironic level then they're the bunny from Monty Python.Pulp Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486803457210325703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-40512113607908113262011-04-26T11:31:11.828-04:002011-04-26T11:31:11.828-04:00I think I was 13 when I first encountered Gamma Wo...I think I was 13 when I first encountered Gamma World (that age where it's cool to laugh at anything except yourself) and that combined with the fact that the first adventure I played in was "The Famine At Far-Go" pretty much cemented the spoof-like nature of our Gamma World campaigns.<br /><br />"Far-Go" was a great adventure (if I remember right... it's been years) but it's also one big in-joke (or at least we perceived it that way - especially the chickens and their backstory). It set the template of us always having little nods to modern day things or pop-culture references.Osskorreihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14408780872015323307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22629575750755342642011-04-26T11:17:15.245-04:002011-04-26T11:17:15.245-04:00I hate that drawing, along with all the other cute...I hate that drawing, along with all the other cutesy drawings in the 1st edition book. It is my opinion that these drawings bear the primary responsibility for Gamma World attaining the status of a goof-ball game. :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56022139521593171252011-04-26T10:35:56.095-04:002011-04-26T10:35:56.095-04:00That Dave Trampier piece is also one of my favouri...That Dave Trampier piece is also one of my favourite pieces, and very evocative of <i>Gamma World</i> for me. They are armed. They are following good trail discipline (walking single file to confuse their numbers and keeping watch to the sides as well as front). You can readily imagine meeting them. The picture has context.<br /><br />On the other hand I find the other portrayals are too cartoony. They are making a mockery of the idea of an anthropomorphic rabbit, essentially trying to conjure images of a feral bugs bunny. Which just doesn't work as well for me. And they lack context (even if you include the cropped out part of the 5th Ed piece).<br /><br />I think Hoops tended to be the archetypical villains in most of the <i>Gamma World</i> games I've been involved with. There is just something about them that encourages this, methinks.Reverance Pavanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50284135776804206112011-04-26T09:20:58.868-04:002011-04-26T09:20:58.868-04:00Horror movies frequently have comedic elements in ...Horror movies frequently have comedic elements in them. Fear and humour are actually closely linked emotions. There's also different types of funny. I'll include things I find amusing in my games, but that doesn't mean the tone of the game automatically becomes silly. In fact I kind of enjoy taking "silly" things and making them scary (eg. Flumph, Flail Snail, Kung-Fu Cowboys, etc)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457050225967190052noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11300443292339186992011-04-26T09:20:43.465-04:002011-04-26T09:20:43.465-04:00The armed bunnies are a nod to Bunnies and Burrows...The armed bunnies are a nod to Bunnies and Burrows - an entire RPG based on playing a rabbit in a militaristic society. Bunnies and Burrows was based off of the book Watership Down, by Richard Adams. From Wikipedia: Watership Down is a heroic fantasy novel about a small group of rabbits, written by English author Richard Adams. Although the animals in the story live in their natural environment, they are anthropomorphised, possessing their own culture, language (Lapine), proverbs, poetry, and mythology. Evoking epic themes, the novel recounts the rabbits' odyssey as they escape the destruction of their warren to seek a place in which to establish a new home, encountering perils and temptations along the way.<br /><br />There is a cartoon adaptation that was released in 1978. Though it was a cartoon, it was extremely graphic and violent. After watching the movie, you will have no problem taking the Hoops seriously.arcadaynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17025690624100512801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-30511932138029900462011-04-26T08:48:09.344-04:002011-04-26T08:48:09.344-04:00That first illustration of the Hoopps is the best....That first illustration of the Hoopps is the best. Is there any deep philosphical meaning in the Hoops? You bet! Qute and cuddly rabbits have the power to transform metal to rubber? As in transforming swords into rubber bands? And all the same armed to he teeth? Rabbits are generally symbolic of something that is harmless and cute. And how about Nazi war criinals, leaders of Cambodian Khmer Rouge and Psychos from Serbian etnic militias viewing themslves as furry white rabbits of sorts. Half in jest, but also half in full seriousness as they goof and be cute wit their wives and chidren, or worse, peple slaughtering civilians thinking themselves great warriors? And how about furry white rabbits brainwashed with a supremacist and an intolerant ideology. That can't happen with the Zoopremacist "cryptic alliance" in any of the Gamma World settings? And you say there can be no philosophical or any other kind of seriousness associated with that illustration of the 1st Ed Gamma World Hoops?Brooser Bearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08487438364129415650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-56235815539487413452011-04-26T08:41:22.809-04:002011-04-26T08:41:22.809-04:00For those of you interested, I have written and po...For those of you interested, I have written and posted a "serious" adventure for the new Gamma World (so it is possible with the new edition)...<br />Quest of the One-Armed Robot<br />https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwSEGjOnxAb0NTc4Yzg1OTEtNzc1NC00NWQ0LTg5NmEtODBkZTNiZjg3ODU3&hl=en<br /><br />And since Metamorphosis Alpha has been mentioned (which it *should* be in any Gamma World conversation), you may want to check out an adventure I wrote for the 1st edition of that system as well...<br />Dire Straits (check Files section of entry)<br />http://rpggeek.com/rpg/769/metamorphosis-alpha-1st-edition<br /><br />Oh, and there is a new edition of Metamorphosis Alpha in the works over at Signal Fire Studios. It will be based on the Dungeons & Dragons 4e engine.Aahzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05457808817535444273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8457033423310549812011-04-26T08:29:12.292-04:002011-04-26T08:29:12.292-04:00James, this is an excellent post. I think you man...James, this is an excellent post. I think you manage to capture what both attracts me and repels me from Gamma World and Mutant Future.<br /><br />On the one hand I find Gamma World's premise amazingly evocative, but on the other hand the bizarreness of it causes both me and my players to view it as an inherently comical exercise. <br /><br />The tension between the two makes me enthused on a good day and flat out baffled on a bad one.<br />Still I'm very interested in the game and would desperately like to run a short campaign of it -- if I could get over this mental hurdle.<br /><br /><i>because that kind of source material is now only enjoyed in an ironic MST3K sense and not in the "oh, what the hell" fun way it was back in the day.</i><br /><br />I don't know about that. I find MST3k works best when they're mocking a movie I would watch on my own anyway. If it's too terrible I couldn't watch it at all.Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10745062840676790649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87490236625601493972011-04-26T08:28:32.991-04:002011-04-26T08:28:32.991-04:00> Especially Rocket Raccoon.
And he didn't...> Especially Rocket Raccoon.<br /><br />And he didn't even get around to pictures of the humanoid raccoons: dabbers. (In a recent Gamma World con game, I used HeroClix Rocket Raccoon for miniatures.)Aahzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05457808817535444273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-71739373144467237492011-04-26T08:05:51.516-04:002011-04-26T08:05:51.516-04:00The Trampier piece strikes me as awful frankly. H...The Trampier piece strikes me as awful frankly. He's just taken a bunch of cute bunnies and given them some guns. I'd have a hard time taking that image seriously in any way. Otoh, the Elmore version works fine for me. I could take those Hoops seriously in the game. <br /><br />The same thing goes for mutant plant characters in Mutant Future. When I envision a mutant plant PC, I'm thinking Swamp Thing, not a walking rododendron.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00323022731513484213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-44315000237725584642011-04-26T07:58:50.858-04:002011-04-26T07:58:50.858-04:00Why so serious?Why so serious?Ry Sthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15697008932594866267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-79127850859268059522011-04-26T07:11:55.648-04:002011-04-26T07:11:55.648-04:00You've railed against Elmore's work here s...<i>You've railed against Elmore's work here several times, but I think his pen & ink drawings for Gamma World were excellent, some of his best stuff.</i><br /><br>Despite my general dislike of Elmore's artwork, I think he's quite good as a SF artist, as I said in <a href="http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2010/03/in-praise-of-larry-elmore-ii_10.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a> about a year ago.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-33170608954387061922011-04-26T07:09:35.033-04:002011-04-26T07:09:35.033-04:00Finally, out of curiosity, are Hoops really any le...<i>Finally, out of curiosity, are Hoops really any less ridiculous than the "green anthropomorphic rabbit man", Jaxxon from the Star Wars comics?</i><br /><br>Context is everything and, in context, I think Jaxxon is far more out of place in <i>Star Wars</i> -- even the very loose, undefined SW of the late 70s -- than Hoops are in <i>Gamma World</i>.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.com