tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post8483161631898439028..comments2024-03-28T12:51:01.247-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Old School Adventure PathJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49396922633292764262011-08-16T16:14:18.428-04:002011-08-16T16:14:18.428-04:00Heh, funny, just today I had a little discussion a...Heh, funny, just today I had a little discussion and even made a <a href="http://dndkids.blogspot.com/2011/08/greatest-adventure.html" rel="nofollow">blog post</a> about this adventure. I think it's very linear, which is good for games with kids. While not having a plot per se, with twists and decisions, it does have a rather exciting change of environment and progression from simple and weak enemies to magical and tougher enemies.<br /><br />All in all, it's not a good adventure for experienced gamers but an excellent module for young beginners. <br /><br />In any case, great blog. I'm only 26, but I really identify with many of your posts :)<br /><br />Best,<br />Uri K.<br /><a href="http://dndkids.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">DNDkids</a>Uriksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01246631303845691416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88285678267989026612009-08-26T13:37:24.788-04:002009-08-26T13:37:24.788-04:00I'm actually thinking of creating a magazine t...I'm actually thinking of creating a magazine that would be released probably between 2-4 x a year, and have a dungeon in it...and have them be modules in this sense. Originally I was just going to do it for Tunnels and Trolls (my dungeon crawling game of choice), but will also stat out stuff for S&W, OSRIC and D&D 3.5...<br /><br />this, of course, is still on the drawing board...pauljessuphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09558540648226822596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-79012784812362122542008-08-25T16:08:00.000-04:002008-08-25T16:08:00.000-04:00I really enjoy reading the Pathfinder stuff as wel...I really enjoy reading the <I>Pathfinder</I> stuff as well.<BR/><BR/>I think another part of it is - like the proliferation of rules - a mindset that the GM-role should be limited to referee. Like having rules for every eventuality, presenting a very detailed story takes the GM's individuality out of the game play process.<BR/><BR/>I also think that this would be the biggest obstacle towards an "old school adventure path" being any kind of relative commercial success. My guess is that most current GM's now expect this type of story line and would view an old school-style path as either incomplete or taking to much work to flesh out. I can already read the reviews of "I spent hard earned money on this and I still have to do a bunch of work." They have either forgotten or had the misfortune of never knowing how much fun it is to use their own imagination to develop the story.P_Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2296513612722297522008-08-25T13:12:00.000-04:002008-08-25T13:12:00.000-04:00Pdiddy,Those are some interesting questions you as...Pdiddy,<BR/><BR/>Those are some interesting questions you ask and, of course, I have no answers for them. I often worry that the greater level of background to be found in modern gaming products is the result of the fact that many RPGs are now <I>read rather than played</I>. That is, gamers will pick up and buy this stuff, because they view it as "reading material." The G/D series is mostly pretty dull if what you're after is fascinating fantasy "stories," whereas I can say with surety that I enjoy reading <I>Pathfinder</I> stuff, even if I'm unlikely to ever run the adventures. They're great reads.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58189056251404462852008-08-25T13:07:00.000-04:002008-08-25T13:07:00.000-04:00I really enjoy reading Paizo's pathfinder stuff bu...I really enjoy reading Paizo's pathfinder stuff but I have often wondered how many pages each module would be if it was rewritten in an old school style. Would it even be as long as the very concise G1 without the statblocks, lengthy back stories, all of the text that seems to be required to describe each individual area, railroading links required to lead the characters through the entire path and other 3E-isms?<BR/><BR/>Also, if done in an old school format (even if still done for either 3E or 4E) would these adventures, which seem to be very popular, be nearly as successful?P_Armstronghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12374589162025099763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-53371031756701629472008-08-25T09:13:00.000-04:002008-08-25T09:13:00.000-04:00I think that open-endedness, with the trademark Gy...<I>I think that open-endedness, with the trademark Gygaxian "add your own level here" markers throughout that encourage a DM to build further beyond what has been provided in the module text, needs to be a key element in any true old-school AP.</I><BR/><BR/>Absolutely. Even the most structured old school materials always included lots of room for expansion and individual development and that's a feature that needs to remain.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36739789057315531472008-08-25T09:11:00.000-04:002008-08-25T09:11:00.000-04:00I do distinctly recall the part about elven aid be...<I>I do distinctly recall the part about elven aid being provided in one of the two.</I><BR/><BR/>If it's there, it's so small as to have escaped my notice when I recently reread the whole series. There's a suggestion the elves would like to know about the drow and might reward the PCs if they provide such information, but no details. Likewise, it's noted that, if the PCs are too low-level to survive, the referee can provide them with "elven aid" in the form of some additional gear and magic items, but that's it.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73551978710141292492008-08-25T09:08:00.000-04:002008-08-25T09:08:00.000-04:00James, I think there was an attempt to link T1-4 t...<I>James, I think there was an attempt to link T1-4 to A1-4 to the G&D series.</I><BR/><BR/>This was done in the 2e era, but it has no relationship to any connection that existed prior to that. Other than the Temple of Elemental Evil, I'm not even certain any of these modules arose from actual play in Gary's campaign, instead being wholly artifacts of design for sale, but I could be wrong on that point.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83177624696633674002008-08-23T23:39:00.000-04:002008-08-23T23:39:00.000-04:00The recent C&C module "Assault on Blackto...The recent C&C module "Assault on Blacktooth Ridge" is like the spiritual successor to Keep on the Borderlands.<BR/><BR/>It's got a well-fleshed-out base and an interesting encounter area full of beasties, but aside from the typical evil monsters raiding the lands of men and rumors of the dark overlord's return, there's not much in the way of situation or plot in there.<BR/><BR/>I don't know how much the later C&C modules follow on from it, though, so it might not qualify as a full-fledge Adventure Path.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12733470237619399192008-08-23T13:43:00.000-04:002008-08-23T13:43:00.000-04:00I'm preparing to run "The Isle of Dread", into an ...I'm preparing to run "The Isle of Dread", into an existing campaign following 2e system. I am changing the goal some to fit my own campaign goals, which requires no work on my part. To do this for a 2e mod would require some rewriting and possibly some major headaches with continuity problems. <BR/><BR/>For a DM who prefer hand craft adventures, using modules only to skate out of really hard work, I will always chose the old mods over any new one, and it is because of the format which is brief and leaves all of the actual gameplay up to me.RipperXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03506064393275174920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-63615325239269465622008-08-22T22:46:00.000-04:002008-08-22T22:46:00.000-04:00Another point: while the D1-3 underworld offers a...Another point: while the D1-3 underworld offers a map to entice the PCs along Eclavdra's path to Erelhei-Cinlu, that underworld environment is much more open-ended than is the case in most Adventure Paths that I've read (only the ones published in Dungeon---if Paizo has tweaked the model further in the subsequent Pathfinder APs, I'm not familiar with those). That is, while the Giants-Drow modules can (and do) form a path that leads from the surface to Erelhei-Cinlu (or perhaps even the Abyss), the path seems to me to be less rigidly-structured than the Dungeon APs, and to be a more-open-ended environment that's holistically very dangerous vs. the progression of danger that APs provide (a mostly-linear path from lower- to higher-level challenges).<BR/><BR/>I think that open-endedness, with the trademark Gygaxian "add your own level here" markers throughout that encourage a DM to build further beyond what has been provided in the module text, needs to be a key element in any true old-school AP. <BR/><BR/>Allan.grodoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800184312511280050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-8258583128979406282008-08-22T22:37:00.000-04:002008-08-22T22:37:00.000-04:00The textual differences between the soliary G and ...The textual differences between the soliary G and D modlues and the complied G1-3 and D1-2 are minimal, and don't add much if any background/connecting materials as far as I recall. The primary differences are some dropped text from the solitary modules, and artwork that didn't make it into the compiled versions. One day I'll get around to doing the A/B comparison for these like I did for tourney Tsojconth and S4 Tsojcanth (and the compiled S1-4 S4 version, which has more background added as well). <BR/><BR/>The GDQ supermodule and the supermodule plot connections added from T1-4 and A1-4 to GDQ were all done post-Gygax's departure, and are not part of the original materials. There's definitely additional background, but it's been some time since I read those, so I don't recall if there's specific connecting info leading froM G1 to G2, etc., etc.; I don't recall more than what was in the solitary and G1-3 compiled versions, but it's been quite some time, so my memory may well be off. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps Joe (greyhawkgrognard) can shed further light on this, if some of his recent researches have gone in this direction?<BR/><BR/>Allan.grodoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11800184312511280050noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-9014234913551426282008-08-22T20:48:00.000-04:002008-08-22T20:48:00.000-04:00I only own the G1-2-3 and D1-2 color versions of t...I only own the G1-2-3 and D1-2 color versions of these, so I can't speak directly to the question of differences between those and the monochromes, but I do distinctly recall the part about elven aid being provided in one of the two. The 1986 "megamodule" compilation, which I have not thoroughly read, adds all sorts of plot railroading specifically for that publication, some of which also serves to connect T1-4, A1-4, and GDQ. I understand why they did it, but IMO it was a mistake and what little I've read of it comes off as contrived and unnecessary.metamorphosissigmahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18163514061779555557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3781772773288880642008-08-22T19:50:00.000-04:002008-08-22T19:50:00.000-04:00More connective tissue may have been added in the ...More connective tissue may have been added in the "Against the Giants" edition of these modules when they were published all together. I've heard this, but don't know the extent of the doctoring that was done (I've never read the compilation, just the originals). Sometimes people don't seem to be on the same page when discussing the series, and I think this might be why.Matt Finchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07678557558458924177noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-26799432964885993852008-08-22T19:37:00.000-04:002008-08-22T19:37:00.000-04:00James, I think there was an attempt to link T1-4 t...James, I think there was an attempt to link T1-4 to A1-4 to the G&D series. I have always been a big fan of the A series as it provides good challenges, interesting locations, tournment outline (which can be used for shorter sessions), and there are plenty of interesting villians to be expanded upon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37044884216390607782008-08-22T17:26:00.000-04:002008-08-22T17:26:00.000-04:00There's nothing about elven aid as such in D1 or D...There's nothing about elven aid as such in D1 or D2, although there is a vague suggestion that the surface elves might be interested in knowing more about the activities of the drow.<BR/><BR/>The pyramid device is in D3 and is part of a treasure trove from the Fane of Lolth.<BR/><BR/>(It's possible that <I>Queen of the Spiders</I>, the mega-adventure from the 2e era that combined the G, D, and Q series into one package might be the source of some of your recollections)James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-61356508053931690342008-08-22T17:21:00.000-04:002008-08-22T17:21:00.000-04:00Isn't there something in the Background to D1-2 ab...Isn't there something in the Background to D1-2 about the adventurers being hired by a council and being provided "elven aid" to investigate the Underdark? Was this where that weird pyramid device came in, or was that in D3?<BR/><BR/>This seems like more suggested "connective tissue" [love the metaphor] that was implied to be used in case a referee didn't have his/her own plot devices in place for use with the modules.The_Mythhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10621186404597424842noreply@blogger.com