tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post959613564587819539..comments2024-03-29T07:58:31.156-04:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: About Armor ClassJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42357066730076936202011-05-07T02:25:26.884-04:002011-05-07T02:25:26.884-04:00"Is this procedure unusual at most game table..."Is this procedure unusual at most game tables nowadays?"<br /><br />No, that is how my group and the one or two other "old school" type games I have played with in my city play.<br /><br />I had a "new school" player I play with us a few times and he asked directly for AC once or twice but I just responded by describing their armour, relative speed and fighting skill/style.<br /><br />I don't see it as a big dewl but I prefer a "mechanics in the background behind the fluff" style if possible.blakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044744212577744849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-53225398702548313622011-05-05T22:12:16.532-04:002011-05-05T22:12:16.532-04:00In my games, AC isn’t discussed at all...
DM: Dav...In my games, AC isn’t discussed at all...<br /><br />DM: Dave, roll your attack!<br />Player: 17!<br />DM: Hit! Roll damage!Falconerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00474925985191663745noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-3513799551116524562011-05-05T16:57:53.524-04:002011-05-05T16:57:53.524-04:00I like to keep it secret at least at the beginning...I like to keep it secret at least at the beginning of a fight. If they have never fought the monster before, how do they know how difficult it will be? If it's a physical test, such as leaping across a gap, I generally tell them their chances. In combat, there are too many variables and not enough time to think. <br /><br />I prefer to let them tell me the total roll, because there may be hidden modifiers. What about the cursed sword he doesn't know about? What about the bonus this creature has because it's near enough to the Toad Idol?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49707217786779856982011-05-04T17:49:57.190-04:002011-05-04T17:49:57.190-04:00With 'NPC' numbers like this in rpgs (targ...With 'NPC' numbers like this in rpgs (target numbers in Traveller or enemy % to hit) I tend to work as you do at the beginning of an unclear situation and as it proceeds the players either work out the opposition or maybe by the end I may have revealed all. It's like the 'fog of war' in my mind's eye and it can clear partially with time.s7610rahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02658417201343534248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65794372481042710942011-05-04T11:44:41.704-04:002011-05-04T11:44:41.704-04:00My group never actually says the AC... at least no...My group never actually says the AC... at least not until a few rounds into combat. Like most of the other comments here our combat rolls usually go something like this:<br /><br />Player: I hit AC 4<br />DM: your shortsword bounces off his brestplate.<br />Player: I hit AC -1<br />DM: A solid hit! Roll your damage.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02218364111122137880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-78094481231625854782011-05-03T18:46:00.596-04:002011-05-03T18:46:00.596-04:00Zak sez:
My take: fighters know the enemy's a...Zak sez:<br /><br /><em>My take: fighters know the enemy's armor class usually, nobody else does.</em><br /><br />Damn, that's clever. Consider it pilfered - though class-specific adaptations seem appropriate (i.e. magic-users should know some of the defensive capabilities of magical beasties, etc.).Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12215651059418273961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75675257577002453102011-05-03T18:16:19.419-04:002011-05-03T18:16:19.419-04:00You do as Dungeon Master try and avoid telling pla...You do as Dungeon Master try and avoid telling players what the Target Armour Class is because they cant possibly know what that Ugly faun looking fellow has as an AC, but at some point there is at some point a development of the DM's Degree of Trust in the Ethics of the Player that they are able to check their own TO HIT chart and tell you whether they got the minimum roll required to Hit Orcus in the male parts with a magically enchanted diamond...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62344884184371516132011-05-03T16:46:08.167-04:002011-05-03T16:46:08.167-04:00I don't ever announce target numbers for AC or...I don't ever announce target numbers for AC or any other kind of check difficulty, but players know that they can expect a 14 or better on the die to hit the vast majority of the time, just because that's how the game is designed and they pay attention to that kind of thing. Sometimes, though, they're still surprised when they hit on a 6 or something like that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13333781524640845035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43872437503469442912011-05-03T15:56:30.718-04:002011-05-03T15:56:30.718-04:00@Joe: "Ascending armor just feels... video ga...@Joe: "Ascending armor just feels... video gamey."<br /><br />Yes!<br /><br />Plus, descending armor class is what I first learned. So that's the right way. :)<br /><br />Actually, though, at the *very* beginning, I was using Basic D&D where armor classes only ranged from 9 to 2...oh well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-38508943041577344292011-05-03T13:07:26.472-04:002011-05-03T13:07:26.472-04:00I run an ADnD2 campaign.
My players tell me what ...I run an ADnD2 campaign. <br />My players tell me what they roll, I tell them if and how they hit.<br />The combination of descending AC and THAC0 really make combat more "magical". <br /><br />When you give players a Base Attack Bonus, that modifier is in the forefront of their mind. Players tend to be very conscious of bonuses and penalties. But THAC0 is just a value, and not directly applied to the attack roll.<br /><br />Thus, a player is suddenly amazed when she can hit the orc with an attack roll of 8.<br /><br />It feels like your character is just somehow better than it was before, which is far more charming, to me, than being able to "see" all the nuts and bolts by having to add up bonuses I get just for being a certain level.<br /><br />...um, so, I prefer descending armor class because it works with THAC0. It what I started playing with, and it just feels right. Ascending armor just feels... video gamey.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12351926278188565029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-50861128311695891532011-05-03T12:09:30.515-04:002011-05-03T12:09:30.515-04:00I've played every version of D&D and have ...I've played every version of D&D and have never given the players the AC. However, I've seen other DM's do it but it just isn't my cup of tea. For some reason, I just don't want players thinking about monsters in terms of AC and hit points but whether or not they should fight or run!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05677891322454967808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43732513445797131112011-05-03T11:16:32.511-04:002011-05-03T11:16:32.511-04:00Michael said: "How can they do that is you do...Michael said: "How can they do that is you don’t tell them the AC? I was under the impression that you told you players the AC."<br /><br />Players tell me the total of their d20+level+bonuses. I mentally add the AC and any other bonuses they don't know about. <br /><br />If the player starts by uttering the word "twenty..." anything, I can almost always abort the process and just say "you hit".Deltahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00705402326320853684noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-39348368746181284372011-05-03T11:11:38.005-04:002011-05-03T11:11:38.005-04:00I tell them the AC because often they will deduce ...I tell them the AC because often they will deduce the the number needed after a hit or two.Greg Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08934958487613782595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-10450914163786282132011-05-03T10:56:08.370-04:002011-05-03T10:56:08.370-04:00With my boys I generally tell them to roll and the...With my boys I generally tell them to roll and then tell them if they hit or not.<br /><br />By not telling them the AC I can adjust for cover, terrain, or (in the past dealing with very young kids) throw in a free +1 to hit because they really need to get a hit in about now.<br /><br />When I am a player in my normal game my DM never tells us the AC. We do have rules lawyer in the group that I think has every monster's AC memorized so sooner or later he tells us, but otherwise we are on our own.Timothy S. Brannanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02923526503305233715noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17996440189101487372011-05-03T10:29:22.485-04:002011-05-03T10:29:22.485-04:00I usually tell them after they've hit it a few...I usually tell them after they've hit it a few times. Especially once they've barely hit and barely missed. <br /><br />Of course, my game is high level Pathfinder, so when the fighter is making 8 attacks with his two scimitars, it does help to let the player do all the math.Jessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11286544022662495363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-2145215881790326822011-05-03T10:13:50.280-04:002011-05-03T10:13:50.280-04:00I generally (not always) tell the players what the...I generally (not always) tell the players what they need to hit. There is nothing like having a group of adventurers huddled around the attacker collectively rooting for that 'magic number' to enable a successful attack.<br /><br />Makes the game more fun - and fun is the point, isn't it?Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08863118245243138750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-60231006192147329382011-05-03T09:37:22.705-04:002011-05-03T09:37:22.705-04:00Depends. Back when I was into playing the most cu...Depends. Back when I was into playing the most current edition (0e and 2e in the 90s, 3e thereafter), I always kept AC secret. It was like HD or HP: you just didn't give that info up.<br /><br />Nowadays, I don't see the point. My rule is this: as soon as a player has definitely declared that he's attacking a particular monster, the monster's AC is revealed. It saves time and lets the player do all the math before rolling to hit.<br /><br />Unless, of course, I'm running a game geared towards pure immersion (usually a good option for total newbies). But in this case, I'll even be concealing the PCs' own ability scores and hit points, never mind monster stats.John Higginshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06522143715905888511noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62341376726577120712011-05-03T09:37:05.695-04:002011-05-03T09:37:05.695-04:00I rarely tell them what they need to hit; my playe...I rarely tell them what they need to hit; my players don't always describe their actions, while I tend to be more descriptive, so I use words to give them an idea of how well they've hit, and let them work out the AC based on that and whether they do any damage.<br /><br />We also used to play with the DM keeping track of PCs hit points, rather than the player, and using words to give them an idea of how wounded they were. Don't do that anymore, but it did help create atmosphere.Simon Forsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01243845335993440168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18519575973695381212011-05-03T09:32:49.434-04:002011-05-03T09:32:49.434-04:00As a young player, I was always told what the TH n...As a young player, I was always told what the TH number was. I liked that--gave some sense of meaning to the random numbers generated.<br /><br />I DM for my two daughters (age 9 and 7) and I always tell them what they need to hit.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-67898145503298396372011-05-03T09:07:25.109-04:002011-05-03T09:07:25.109-04:00I play 3.5 and I never announce the AC. Never have...I play 3.5 and I never announce the AC. Never have since my 1e days.cibethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16815626047653230637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-51620829198877404122011-05-03T08:38:54.136-04:002011-05-03T08:38:54.136-04:00During play, I never tell players anything about a...During play, I never tell players anything about any game mechanics. I tell them only what their characters know and sense.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14398295844409607075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-83551349855368070282011-05-03T08:14:51.970-04:002011-05-03T08:14:51.970-04:00Player rolls d20, adds modifiers and/or consults t...Player rolls d20, adds modifiers and/or consults their character sheet as appropriate, announces what AC they hit; GM announces whether they hit or missed, adding a "your swing goes wide" or "almost got him" or "clang against the shield" as the GM deems appropriate.<br /><br />By the time the combat is up, the players will usually have figured out what AC the opponents/monsters had - same as their characters would have gotten the measure of their foe.<br /><br />Only time the GM should announce the AC is if a player has poor math skills and needs the help, or on the first game session for someone who has never played before.Mothman's Doghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03548897634993466893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-20554295739859357582011-05-03T08:04:17.704-04:002011-05-03T08:04:17.704-04:00My players tell me what they hit. Eventually they ...My players tell me what they hit. Eventually they figure out the monsters AC. <br /><br />Sometimes in the event of a 19 or 20 rolled they will just claim I hit, I'll often as for more details at which point they say I rolled a 19 that hits and AC of "negative ....) and I then agree they hit.<br /><br />If I'm playing 4E or 3.X I generally assume a 16-20 on the die hits assuming it is level appropriate.mmarandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02490528139399025561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85631050382968061582011-05-03T07:22:23.758-04:002011-05-03T07:22:23.758-04:00@Tom: the suspense lies in the roll of the die, me...@Tom: the suspense lies in the roll of the die, mechanics are illusionary to the fictional realms of the mind....Nopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02743719179352388875noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-42736970199713041682011-05-03T07:18:49.098-04:002011-05-03T07:18:49.098-04:00Any smart player will eventually figure out what t...Any smart player will eventually figure out what the opponent's armor class is, based on what hits and what doesn't. A DM should never tell the player's what their opponent's AC is because it completely shatters the suspense of combat. What I should have said on the previous post is that ascending AC is convenient because "what did you roll?" "15" (DM checks AC and sees that it is 15). "You hit".Tom Kilianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07217827605476123511noreply@blogger.com