I have a lot of criticisms of Deities & Demigods, but one I haven't talked about as often as I should is how dull it is. The book presents more than a dozen pantheons for use with Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, but the bulk of that presentation is given over to game statistics of the gods rather than information about the beliefs, practices, and role of those gods' worship. That's the kind of thing I wanted out of the book, not Monster Manual-style write-ups of Zeus or Odin. Making the Greek and Norse gods boring is quite the feat, especially for someone like myself, who adored their myths and legends and yet, somehow, Deities & Demigods managed to do it.
"The Deities & Demigods of the World of Greyhawk," unfortunately, still devotes too much space to game statistics. On the other hand, Gygax provides more than that, peppering his descriptions of the four featured gods – Heironeous, Hextor, Iuz, and St. Cuthbert – with information on their worshipers, temples, and place in society, not to mention tidbits of Greyhawk-specific mythology in which they appear. In these descriptions, he's fleshing out the World of Greyhawk setting in a way he never did in its original folio release. That was a big part of the appeal of this article for me: learning more about the details of what had previously been a very bare bones setting, including its myths and folklore.
It didn't hurt that the gods Gygax chose to highlight in this first article were genuinely interesting ones. In the case of St. Cuthbert, he had finally answered questions I'd had ever since I first opened my copy of the Dungeon Masters Guide and read the artifacts section where he discusses the Mace of St. Cuthbert. Likewise, Iuz was one of the few divine (or demonic) beings mentioned by name in The World of Greyhawk, where he is simply called "Lord of Evil." Nothing else is said about him, so I was largely left to imagine who Iuz might be until this article appeared. Heironeous and Hextor, on the other hand, were completely new to me, having never come across any references to them beforehand. These quarreling half-brothers, one good and one evil, made quite the pair and the divine rivalry had consequences for Greyhawk and its inhabitants.
As I said, Gygax still wastes far too much verbiage on game statistics – statistics that, in my experience, are almost never used in actual play. I don't really understand why AD&D went to the trouble of codifying the armor class, hit points, attacks, etc. of the gods. I can only assume that, by the time this article appeared, doing so was already well enough established that Gygax didn't consider another approach, one that focuses less on game stats and more on the role the gods played within the imaginary setting of Greyhawk. That's a shame, because I think it's a more fruitful approach – or at least one I would have enjoyed more.
Even so, "The Deities & Demigods of the World of Greyhawk" manages to pack a fair bit of setting-specific information in its entries, which I enjoyed. This article and the ones that followed were among my favorites in the pages of Dragon during the early 1980s. They gave the World of Greyhawk some much needed details about its gods and religions, a topic I've long enjoyed. But it was this first article that I remember most vividly, hence its inclusion in this series.
Think that was the first issue I bought. The deities are indelibly etched, as well as the Fedifensor scenario - githyanki in space!
ReplyDeleteThe twelve-year-old me had no real way to incorporate Deities into the adventures we played down in the woods. It was kind of interesting for illustrations and . . . were Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser in there? There were some engaging pages.
ReplyDeleteAlso an older brother put stat-sheets in there for The Demon, Starman, Spaceman and the Cat.
One reason Deities & Demigods was stat heavy was because of a particular letter TSR received from a DM whose group had killed most of the Norse gods and had no idea what to do next for his group. TSR’s solution was to stat all gods in such a way that they couldn’t be killed by even high level characters. It’s why gods had easily refreshed spells and abilities and why hit points for most gods were in the triple digits. Rather than say that “Gods can’t be killed” by DM fiat, they made sure that they couldn’t be killed within the context of the rules. I’m sure this was to stymie rules lawyers who always needed a book to tell them what was and wasn’t possible in a game.
ReplyDeleteDorks of Yore: Fighting Level Creep with Tim Kask (original editor of Dragon magazine)
https://youtu.be/X9vECzikqpY
I think the more common perspective, articulated by a friend of mine in junior high, is: "if they aren't supposed to be killed, why do they have hit points?"
DeleteI have a different perspective: If the PCs can't kill D&D gods, then what are they for?
ReplyDeleteI believe the stat blocks reflect a genuine philosophical position on Gygax's part, namely, that the stats are where the "game" is. Gygax was undoubtedly emotionally invested in constructing the setting of Greyhawk, and I presume he and his players enjoyed the "role" playing of it. Nevertheless, gaming in Lake Geneva was also a competitive endeavor governed by rules. In Gary's D&D, everything had to have some objective measure of its abilities (that's how most wargames work).
ReplyDeleteKids loved killing gods in D&D. That was my experience anyway, as I learned at local gaming sessions organized by a hobby store and learning about the adventures they played with each other. Obviously, creative dice rolls were involved. Einstein said "God does not play dice with the universe," but the reverse was certainly true, at least in the world I knew.
ReplyDeleteI always wondered why they cut half of the Deities (I know why) but never replaced them with Greyhawk deities or Forgotten Realms deities.
ReplyDeleteThe mythos I liked were the fictional ones - Lankhmar, Cthulhu, Melnibone - because of the cool new monsters, and as a kid it was my first exposure to those fantasy worlds. :-) Currently writing Gods of Titan for Advanced Fighting Fantasy 2E, but the deities here are presented with no stats, just powers they grant their priests, and all the lore you need - appearance to believers, relations with other gods and heroes, what type of followers they have, where are their temples and what colours and symbols are incorporated by their devotees, etc.
ReplyDeleteI think they were working with what they had - textbooks and encyclopedias of gods and their stories but not the worship practices and other cultural anthropological 'stuff' only found in academic journals. And they knew how to stat stuff. NPCs always got a stat block, why not the gods?
ReplyDelete