That's why I'm turning to you, my readers, for thoughts and suggestions on how you have handled wars and large-scale battles in your roleplaying game campaigns. What rules or approaches did you use and how well did they work? Did they mesh well with the RPG you were playing? I'm honestly curious about every aspect of this question, since I have such limited experience with it in my own campaigns and would appreciate learning from those of you who've successfully incorporated mass combat into yours.
That said, I should make a few things clear about my own preferences as a referee. Between my dislike of combat as an activity in itself and my feeling that most RPGs have too many rules, I have a natural aversion to any kind of mass combat system that plays out like a wargame. If I wanted to play a wargame, I'd play a wargame. What I want – and this may be impossible – is a solution that doesn't require me or the players to learn a whole new set of rules to simulate their characters' involvement in a big battle. Additionally, I'd like for what the characters do to have an effect on the outcome of the battle, even if they're not directly involved in everything that happens. I realize this is likely asking a lot, but I have lots of smart and knowledgeable readers, so maybe one of you can point me in the right direction.
To date, the only RPG I've ever played that had a decent set of mass combat rules was Pendragon and, even there, I wasn't wholly satisfied with the results. The main virtue of Pendragon was that the participation of the player characters still used the standard combat rules and the results of their individual battles had some impact on the final outcome of a larger fight. I didn't have to keep track of lots of wargame-y rules to adjudicate the battle satisfactorily. That's more or less what I want here, though, as I said, I may be asking for too much.
Your thoughts on this matter are thus greatly appreciated.
This guy had much the same criteria, and presents his answer here: https://youtu.be/2FE60ORaQB4?si=0QOOdwBHikf2O1e1
ReplyDeleteYou could check out the BECMI line’s War Machine rules. I believe they are in the Companion rules. They are also included in the Rules Cyclopedia.
ReplyDeleteFor a more ad hoc approach, you could resolve the battles through a series of competing dice rolls. First side to win 5 times wins the battle. Winning the prior roll lets the winner use a larger die in the next roll off (like moving up the dice chain in DCC RPG). Give the party mini missions during the battle. If they are successful, their side gets a bonus on the next roll.
I think the way an Echo Resounding by Kevin Crawford handles mass combat (more or less: a military unit is a character and using standard combat rules with a couple of fixes for scale) is a good way to go about it.
ReplyDeleteDelta's Book of War has a similar approach I'm told but looks more wargamey/historically accurate.
Or you could go another way about it: run everything on a 1:1 scale, but only around the PCs.
Everything else happens off scene and you resolve off-scene parts of the battle by rolling 1d6 vs 1d6, highest wins (ok you can elaborate on that like ise the ratio of average hd*number of soldiers vs hd*number of soldiers, magicians and monsters with special abilities count double their HD to determine dice pools for the two sides) each 6 is a special battle event like a wounded or killed hero, mage, monster
I'll email you. :)
ReplyDeletePlease do!
DeleteWhat's worked for me in the past is to just use the rules for single-character combat in whatever system you're already using and apply them to large units of fighters, grouping them up so that there's one unit per player, and roughly as many opponents. Everyone already knows the rules, and you know its balanced. I did this with 5th edition, and the only real change I had to make was adding a few special rules for cavalry charges and making units only move about 1 square per turn. You can jump back and forth between the big battle and the PCs directly fighting the BBEG. It might be a little less realistic if they're part of the military, but its a lot more fun
ReplyDeleteIf you have to have mass-scale battles, you could group the antagonists into companies or squads or whatever makes sense for the actual scale of combat. Each "unit" is given stats that meet its makeup - elite troops have a higher attack/defense bonuses and more "hit points." Then simply conduct the battle using the same combat rules you use for characters in any other combat. You could add in a "breaking" mechanic too. If a unit takes damage, it has to save against breaking and fleeing. If you want to get more granular, you can add bonuses or penalties depending on the type of unit (particularly zealous units have huge bonuses against breaking) or based on how much damage they take at once (if a unit loses 50-60% of its "hit points" in a single attack, it gets a penalty to its roll to save against breaking). Once a unit breaks, it's out of the combat*, leaving the unit that won the encounter to keep fighting.
ReplyDeleteThis sort of system simply replaces individual characters/npcs/enemies with "units" made up of however many troops you want, but keeps the same rules of combat you're already using. Does your rule system give an advantage to hit an enemy that's already engaged? Give the same bonus to a unit making a flanking attack on an enemy already facing another unit. Etc.
But as this is essentially the denouement of the campaign, can you give the players a discrete task to complete that influences the overall outcome of the battle? The benefit to this is that you don't have to worry about mass combat; if the characters succeed, the battle is won. If they fail, they're likely dead and the outcome of the battle doesn't really matter. You could give it some additional weight if you set a time limit - you must take this bridge within 10 rounds or the enemy will overwhelm your troops, for example.
*Unless they rally, which you could decide happens if you feel like the narrative needs it. Maybe a high priest collects fleeing troops and reforms them, reinforcing their will to fight with dark magic...
I've gone with the use of figures, 1 PC or NPC or Big Monster per figure, but one squad (of other mooks/goons/men@arms) per military unit.
ReplyDeleteMilitary units against PCs do only 1 point of damage per die of damage per hit, unless they roll a critical, then a normal roll of damage; PCs, NPCs, and Big Monsters do normal damage to military units.
Then they break down to Left, Center, Right for morale purposes. And the battle is just one big, normal battle, but with a LOT of "henchmen" on both sides.
Works like a breeze. Never had to do it online, though...
Do some kind of influence system with a list of things the PCs can accomplish before and during the battle. Each thing they successfully accomplish adds a +1 to the die roll to determine who wins the battle. Assume an even fight with a 50/50 chance to start. Just an idea...
ReplyDeleteArs Magica in the Ordo Nobilis supplement covers mass battle but I've never used it. It is quite similar to an approach that has appeared in old versions of Runequest apparently, but I'm not sure where. The approach is to focus on areas where PCs are and just handwave the rest.
ReplyDeleteMy advice is not to play the situation as a wargame at all. You're directing the experiences of the characters in the battle, not the battle itself, so see everything from their perspective and simply describe the battle raging around them. What are their goals while the battle is happening? If you want them to be involved in combat, it can be individual battle vignettes, either with a group of soldiers and/or some important character(s). Or it may be that they have to get some McGuffin that will change the tide of the battle, and you can have that play out in a particular location (in the palace, underground, tc), or interspersed with combat encounters as the characters rush through the battlefield or the city aflame.
ReplyDeleteYou're not playing a wargame, you're playing a RPG, so I certainly wouldn't rest the outcome of your long campaign on any set of wargaming rules. You may predetermine the outcome of the battle for story reasons, in which case it can be set dressing to a large or small degree; or you may decide to let the action of the players determine it, either by achieving their goals during the battle or actually killing some important enemy character.
A filmic example that springs to mind are the episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer set during the Boxer Rebellion. The battle is going on all around them, but the characters have their own goals and stories within it.
Anyway, that's what I'd do!