Wednesday, April 28, 2021

Retrospective: Thieves' World

I've long had a fondness for Chaosium's boxed sets, starting with Call of Cthulhu, the first RPG from the company I ever owned. From there, it was all downhill: with the exception of RuneQuest, I soon became a dedicated collector of Chaosium's boxed sets. Among those I treasured the most was Thieves' World, based on the fantasy anthology series of the same name edited by Robert Lynn Asprin. 

The boxed set, first published in 1981, consisted of three books and a collection of maps depicting the city of Sanctuary. The first book, Players' Guide to Sanctuary, serves as an introduction to not just the whole set but also its setting. Kicking off the book are two essays by contributors to the literary anthology, starting with Asprin's "Full Circle," which was simultaneously published in issue #12 of Different Worlds. Following it is "Thud and Blunder," Poul Anderson's essay skewering the excesses of sword-and-sorcery literature and a call to produce better entries in the genre. Rounding out the first book are discussions of the city, its inhabitants, history, and gods, as well as an extensive glossary of names and terms unique to Sanctuary.

The Game Master's Guide to Sanctuary presents a variety of articles on how to use the boxed set in one's campaign. These articles discuss bribery and graft, law and order, and the gods (in greater detail). More immediately useful are the extensive encounter tables, each tied to one of the city's districts. Each district gets its own article, including a map that describes the most important locales. In some cases, there are also maps of individual buildings. Wrapping up this book is a map of the city's sewers.

Personalities of Sanctuary is the third and perhaps most interesting book in the set. Each of its chapters describes the most important inhabitants of Sanctuary in terms of a different roleplaying game's rules – Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (by Lawrence Schick), Adventures in Fantasy (by Dave Arneson and Richard Snider), Chivalry & Sorcery (by Wes Ives), DragonQuest (by Eric Goldberg), Dungeons & Dragons (by Steve Marsh), The Fantasy Trip (by Rudy Kraft), RuneQuest (by Steve Perrin), Tunnels & Trolls (by Ken St. Andre), and Traveller (by Marc Miller). The last one is notable, as Miller offers three different ways to integrate Thieves' World into Traveller's science fiction setting. The most interesting of these options is one that postulates that Sanctuary is a computer simulation created for entertainment – a kind of MMORPG for the citizens of the Third Imperium. Concluding the third book is a collection of scenario ideas.

There are three large maps included in Thieves' World: one depicting the whole city, another the Maze district, and the last one the underground areas of the same district. The maps are lovely, as is typical for Chaosium products from this era. 

Thieves' World is an impressive boxed set and I deeply regret that I long ago got rid of mine in a moment of stupidity. I absolutely adore the idea of fantasy cities, particularly those of a shady, crime-ridden sort like Lankhmar or Sanctuary. That said, I can't deny that the set nevertheless has flaws, chief among them being the amount of space devoted to describing all the characters in so many different RPG systems. I'd much rather that the book had provided statistics for only two or three rules sets – D&D, RQ, and T&T maybe? – and then used the freed space to flesh out the city further or expand the scenario ideas instead. Of course, I'd have been even happier if this product had been a complete Thieves' World fantasy roleplaying game using Basic Role-Playing, but I can't really complain in the end. If  only I'd kept my copy … 

26 comments:

  1. I picked it up secondhand about 25 years ago for fifteen bucks. Little did I know what a deal if gotten. I've enjoyed it and stole bits of it from time to time. It's a great supplement, but I have to admit I'm more partial to the TSR Lankhmar city book from 1985.

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    1. I feel much the same way. The Lankhmar book has a lot more "nuts and bolts" material in it, making it generally useful, while Thieves' World leaves quite a bit more to the referee to work out for himself.

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  2. My memories of this supplement are identical to your own, right on down to the fact that I let it go in a moment of arrant stupidity.

    What a great little boxed set. What was I thinking?

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    1. Over the years, I've let quite a few treasures go without realizing it. That's why I'm now reluctant to get rid of things unless I am absolutely certain I'll never use them again.

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    2. I'll join you in lamenting the foolish decision to sell my own copy. OTOH, I lost the vast majority of my remaining game collection a few years later to a combination of fire and flood, so perhaps it's for the best. At least someone (in Australia, IIRC) still has the darn thing instead of it being pulp or ash.

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    3. this from the guy who posted about culling unnecessary RPG products. that was by far, the most offensive thing you ever wrote ;)

      I considered once getting rid of it all, but not pieces. stop altogether, or keep on keeping on

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  3. I'm pleased to say I've managed to hang on to my copy.

    I've heard people refer to the Personalities book as the Rosetta Stone of 1980s RPGs. If you were looking to convert something from one system to another, you look at how Thieves' World did it and work it out from there.

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  4. I picked up a used copy in excellent condition a couple years back...have been meaning to write my own blog post on the subject since 2018, but just haven't gotten to it.

    Personally, I find the set remarkable, not leastwise for the way it models the TW characters in various systems. I find this bit absolutely fascinating, not only because of the amount of collaboration that went into it (how did they get TSR's blessing and cooperation here?!) but seeing, side-by-side the different approaches across different systems. Just comparing AD&D to D&D is enlightening.

    There's a lot in this set for a designer and world builder to digest. I've owned the TSR Lankhmar book since the late 80s and have used it...um...not at all? Sanctuary is a setting I can use. And will use. And have used (at least as inspiration for my own game world).

    I only wish I'd had the thing 30-some years ago at the height of my AD&D gaming. Much of our campaign was influenced by Thieves World anyway back then (and by works penned by many of the TW authors) so there's a shared sensibility there. TW exerted far more influence on our gaming than Tolkien.

    And I daresay it had an influence on D&D as well. What is the city of Specularum (of the the Grand Duchy of Karameikos) if not a surrogate for (or even a re-skinning of) Sanctuary?

    [probably Greyhawk has more in common with Lankhmar, but Specularum is all TW, right down to its indigenous "gypsy" people]

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    1. I guess I didn't keep up with the later D&D releases, because I don't recall Specularum having much in the way of any description whatsoever.

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    2. http://bxblackrazor.blogspot.com/2019/04/s-is-for-sanctuary-light.html

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  5. Somewhat off topic, fans of the Thieves' World anthologies would be well-served to look up the Liavek shared-world series edited by Emma Bull and Will Shetterly. Only five anthologies and a few scattered short stories after the main run in the late 80s/early 90s, so not quite the reading commitment of TW. Well worth a read IMO.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liavek

    CJ Cherryh's Merovingian Nights anthology series is technically scifi (and set in the Union-Alliance universe, as was Downbelow Station, etc, etc) rather than fantasy, but it's set on a regressed and isolated world and reads very much like a Venetian-themed Thieves' World, with some contributors from TW as well. Another one not to be missed if you enjoyed the shared-world fad TW started. Seven anthology books and a single novel by Cherryh.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merovingen_Nights

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    1. After reading the review of the first Liavek book in a Dragon mag, I got interested but never managed to find a copy. Now, I located and downloaded a copy and found it interesting but underwhelming when compared to Sanctuary's seediness (original seediness; the new stuff's downright clean and proper compared to the original series). Liavek's a merchant's city, not a refugee's.

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    2. When I think "seedy fantasy city" Lankhmar's always first to come to mind. Sanctuary's somewhere in the top five, though.

      Liavek's more fantastical than early Sanctuary (especially stories involving the Magician) but once Tempus and Hanse start turning the dial up on the deific avatar thing that goes right out the window. The luck-based magic system is a strong draw for me, even if its depiction isn't universal from author to author.

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    3. We've really only seen the seedier _parts_ of Lankhmar, no? It's a wealthy, politically powerful port; Sanctuary's a has-been port that was founded by escaped slaves. I'll bet the worst parts of Lankhmar have nothing on The Maze or Downwind.

      "the deific avatar thing" Oh, I don't know. I've always read that as part-and-parcel with the very down-to-earth struggle between the colonized and Empire. And its aftermath was pure grit, too (what happens to a section of the ruling class when its inherent raison d'etre goes sour?). Can't really see something like that happening in Liavek.

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    4. I loved both Liavek and Merovingen Nights. I actually got turned off by Thieve's World near the end and didn't read at least the final book if not one or two before that.

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    5. "got turned off by Thieve's World near the end"

      What was it that did it?

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    6. I don't remember the details. I know there was some tension between the contributors that leaked into the books, I think that was the bulk of it. But I also remember it just being harder to stay engaged.

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    7. There was always some conflict between authors, which I think is inevitable in a shared-world setting where everyone can play with each others' toys. CJ Cherryh had an excellent quote on the subject in the afterword to Blood Ties: "You write your first Thieves' World story for pay, you write your second for revenge."

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  6. I have two copies (a 2nd copy was in the big RQ eBay deal I got back in 2005). I love this though it winds up entangled with my love-hate relationship with RPG cities. I love everything they present, and I have never managed to run a satisfying city campaign.

    One of the gems in Thieve's World is the tables to fill in the shops of the city. It's also worth pointing out that this also essentially fits in the city line from Midkemia Press since it was a collaboration with Midkemia Press (which eventually resulted in CHaosium reprints of Cities, Carse, and Tulan of the Isles.

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  7. I bought a fairly beat up copy recently for 40$ cad. pretty happy with it. books are fine, but box is ratched.

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  8. I was also delighted to find a supplement they put out for the series's continuation after the first two books detailed in the supplement. And they included RoleMaster stats in this one for the characters.

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    1. A shame there was only the one Companion, although given what a hassle licensing a shared-world series must be it's also a pleasant surprise they got that much done.

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  9. Read the books before product was published. I think they were up to book 2 or 3 by the time this came out.

    I am going to disagree about the amount of game systems covered. I thought and still do think it was a bold move. It gave a number of different users to buy it and not dismiss it as a D&D setting.

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    1. Only other thing I've seen that tackled as many game systems at once was WotC's Primal Order system-agnostic range, and even there it was more conversion suggestions than hard stats for different game. Interesting set of books, especially Chessboards' take on planar travel.

      Got them in legal trouble with Palladium too, back in the brief period where they weren't flush with Magic money and couldn't afford a lawsuit. They even put out a call for donations to their legal defense fund in their newsletter. Peter got $5 from me, which was at best a partial payment for the pleasure of reading Primal Order and the Talsilanta stuff WotC was doing at that point.

      Always been impressed with Adkinson for not messing with Kevin after WotC went big. He hurt them badly while they were still small, and three years later they could have squashed Palladium like a bug any time they wanted. Not sure I'd have been as forgiving - and I know I wouldn't now after watching him screw people on the Robotech minis debacle.

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